Erik Duvander Out As U.S. Eventing Performance Director

[OverandOnward]

@DogWithBigEars

"… Here we are circling back to that theme of personal responsibility for preparing themselves and their horses to arrive on competition day ready to go.”

This is a statement presented with "Here we are … " as if now we have arrived at the real point of the matter. But the point is nothing but a universal basic life skill - show up ready to do what you came to do. Nothing special, not something that prepares someone for the Olympics.

This statement is the equivalent of “I want a sandwich for lunch, so I will go and get a sandwich”. What did we learn from that? Anything we didn’t already know as adults living our daily lives?

Is there some larger point he wanted to make? Because he didn’t leave much evidence of it.

Just an example of what was said, or not said, throughout the quoted Moroney statements. Almost everything quoted in the articles was just time filler until he could somewhat decently get away from the stage.

[EventerAJ]

Bensmom, thanks for laying out the embarrassing, perplexing, and downright infuriating mess that they did to the calendar. You are 100% right I’d rather spend $300 going to Rocking Horse (again) than $600+ (and $$$ hotel!!) at Terra Nova. And I am heartbroken at the notion of losing Red Hills, Jersey, and other dependable & delightful fixtures of the upper level season. What an utter disaster, completely unnecessary, and like you, I don’t know a single rider or owner who agrees with any of it.

This sport is going to hell in a handbasket and it’s not the fault of anyone (rider, organizers, land owners, volunteers, etc) who puts their valuable time, money, heart & soul into the game.

So unfair. I can forgive the distasteful look of awarding a need-based grant to an undeserving recipient, because honestly that doesn’t impact my enjoyment of the sport. But removing my longtime favorite events for NO REASON, where I have priceless memories that can now never be re-lived…it is a senseless stab in the back.

[HorseAlter]

What do you think the point of all of this is? Destroy eventing as a sport?

@EventerAJ

Bensmom, thanks for laying out the embarrassing, perplexing, and downright infuriating mess that they did to the calendar. You are 100% right I’d rather spend $300 going to Rocking Horse (again) than $600+ (and $$$ hotel!!) at Terra Nova. And I am heartbroken at the notion of losing Red Hills, Jersey, and other dependable & delightful fixtures of the upper level season. What an utter disaster, completely unnecessary, and like you, I don’t know a single rider or owner who agrees with any of it.

This sport is going to hell in a handbasket and it’s not the fault of anyone (rider, organizers, land owners, volunteers, etc) who puts their valuable time, money, heart & soul into the game.

So unfair. I can forgive the distasteful look of awarding a need-based grant to an undeserving recipient, because honestly that doesn’t impact my enjoyment of the sport. But removing my longtime favorite events for NO REASON, where I have priceless memories that can now never be re-lived…it is a senseless stab in the back.

[Sticky_Situation]

Eventing is moving toward the h/j model of having $$$$ mega-competitions at a handful of $$$$ venues owned by “investors” that your average middle-class horse person just can’t afford. The powers that be are making it clear they want to cater to a select few “stakeholders” and the rest of us can just figure out what to do with ourselves.

I’ve always liked how in Eventing, you could spend <$500 including entries, hotel, and fuel and go compete at the same event as the best in our sport. Not that it’s inexpensive if you do a significant amount of competing, but it wasn’t a discipline designed to cater only to the super wealthy. It looks like that won’t continue to be the case though.

[HorseAlter]

Your comments are some of the few things that makes sense in this thread.

With Jersey Fresh going poof! it certainly seems that a different model is in the works.

I agree that the concept of a mega-competition would price a lot of people out. Not only that, but if you don’t live near one of these venues, then travel time could increase rapidly.

One of the reasons why I live where I do is so I don’t have to use up a majority of my vacation time simply to travel to and from events every 2-3 weeks. With multiple horses competing, not everyone is showing the same week, so I’m on the road a lot.

I feel for a lot of the people out west that have several days total of travel time for every show they attend. That’s why there are certain areas I would never consider living in because I would have to cut back significantly on showing.

What would it take to get things back to how they were?

@Sticky_Situation

Eventing is moving toward the h/j model of having $$$$ mega-competitions at a handful of $$$$ venues owned by “investors” that your average middle-class horse person just can’t afford. The powers that be are making it clear they want to cater to a select few “stakeholders” and the rest of us can just figure out what to do with ourselves.

I’ve always liked how in Eventing, you could spend <$500 including entries, hotel, and fuel and go compete at the same event as the best in our sport. Not that it’s inexpensive if you do a significant amount of competing, but it wasn’t a discipline designed to cater only to the super wealthy. It looks like that won’t continue to be the case though.

[Blugal]

My area has just lost another event, leaving us with only 3 venues in the province. When I started in the 1990s, we had about 10 venues. We are really struggling and I think it started with the “destination” events being targeted to the detriment of supporting more local venues. In part because pros/trainers were traveling for their upper level horses, and took their whole barn with them.

Once we got used to the destination events, people became a lot more precious about having perfect stabling, showers, and wifi.

The cost of a local event would go up $50 and people would complain… but they wouldn’t volunteer. And they’d happily spend three times the amount to attend a destination event.

Many organizers and land owners got tired after many years. There were few stepping up to replace them. Part of this was the fuster cluck of our Equestrian Canada who made becoming and remaining an official a ridiculous spectacle.

The solution I’m exploring is starting a series of unrecognized local mini events or derbies… harkening back to the 70s…

[Willesdon]

British Eventing is having an interesting time right now, with changes to membership fees, insurance costs and abandonment refunds which, to be fair, are designed to support grass roots eventers - but any change, particularly in a sport people are passionate about, will cause a lot of heat and sulphur.

One of the drivers for BE to change is the recent growth of Unaffiliated Eventing. The standard of this circuit has grown beyond recognition in the past five years or so as a couple of very professional organisers have begun running several shows. Unaffiliated used to be very sketchy but no longer. The same highly experienced people are volunteering for both BE and Unaffiliated. Competitors are often jumping courses built by BE trained designers and builders. The rules used are the same as those of BE. There is medical cover, same as BE. The costs are lower for competitors. The prize money is better (a whopping £1K for the final in a series for The Cotswold Cup this year). Pro riders use Unaffiliated to build experience without putting anything on the horse’s BE record. The Unaffiliated tend to run at the lower levels, up to 100cm usually, but this is the largest market so it meets a need.

Why has this parallel circuit developed? Partly due to the success of BE and the organisers putting on top quality events that attract very large numbers of competitors so too many people are balloted out of over crowded events. Partly because amateur riders see it as a less pressured entry into the sport. Partly cost, because there are no annual registration and membership fees. Partly because organisers and landowners don’t have as much hassle as BE has been known to hand out. The organisers can put on events when they wish, with no reference to a national schedule. One consequence, last season, was two Unaffiliated series ran a final ‘championship’ on the same weekend located only about 20 miles apart. Neither knew of the other and both ended up with a lack of numbers, such that a day of competition was cut by both.

The USP for BE remains the opportunity to progress up the levels, right up to iconic 5* events, and the opportunity to ride in Internationals, of which there are a lot in the UK and a target for all ambitious riders. FEI success looks nice on a rider’s resume and adds value to the horse in a sale.

So, what are the prospects of developing an alternative circuit away from USEA and the USEF? Will I be struck down by lighting for suggesting a heresy?

[EventerAJ]

@Willesdon

So, what are the prospects of developing an alternative circuit away from USEA and the USEF? Will I be struck down by lighting for suggesting a heresy?

In many areas, there already are a fair number of unrecognized (“schooling”) events. They vary in quality, but a good number of them are held at recognized event locations over the same courses as the recognized events. Here in FL, we have schooling events at the Florida Horse Park nearly every month, particularly during the “off” season May through December. Also at Majestic Oaks, Rocking Horse, and Barnstaple. The organizers pay attention to each other and usually schedule their shows reasonably for maximum attendance by all. These events are usually well attended by lower levels…why pay $250 to run beginner novice at Ocala HT when you can get a experience over the same courses for $110 at the following weekend? My young horses rarely run a recognized event until they are solid at Training level schooling events (ready to move up to USEF levels).

I know Area II is similar with a quality offering of unrecognized events, many also held at recognized venues like Plantation.

[Leprechaun]

Area 1 already has one & it’s fabulous! We’ve lost so many of the old USEA events up here & I wasn’t super interested in driving my daughter 3 hours for a one day grasshopper, etc. It’s called the Area 1 Schooling something or other & runs grasshopper to Training. They have a fun Champs at the end of the season with big ribbons & prizes. We switched to the USEA at Training only because there are not ambulances on-site at the schooling series & I wanted that at T. It was started & is run by a well known former UL rider and is super fun & relaxed. No hotels, stabling, etc. Great for kids & low level adult amateurs.

[Texarkana]

Makes you wonder if USEF wants eventing to cease in its current format.

Move all the recognized competitions to big multipurpose venues so it’s easier to micromanage the competition and gradually phase it into a safer, cheaper, income-producing combined test.

[Jealoushe]

I definitely think its a push toward the big fancy facility thing…think about it. All the XC derby type shows at these fancy places to draw in interest. Tryon happily took Jersey Freshs place…and there was no issue there. It’s like the owners of these places have so much money so they are trying to cater to that market.

Thing is, a lot of eventers don’t want that type of showing. Also considering we are in a pandemic, and then the EHV outbreaks…showing stabled with hundreds of horses every weekend doesn’t actually interest me. I have my own little farm and I can’t afford to get myself or my barn full of horses sick. I prefer to drive my trailer, park in a field and tie my horse while I show. Sure a big show like that could be fun once in a while, but in no way could I afford or would I want to be eventing at these huge fancy venues every weekend.

it’s like yet again the amateurs and “professional” amateurs are forgotten, meanwhile they carry the sport.

[Jealoushe]

Also just to add about schooling events.

Currently in Canada there is a bit of battle going on with Equestrian Canada and the event venue owners, and Ontario Eventing over allowing venues to host schooling events or levels. Currently they are not able to, but some places are doing it anyway. It’s causing some drama.

[beowulf]

For sure, it does seem that the model is trending towards H/J.

I’m finding myself more and more removed from this sport.

@Willesdon In the US, they are called unrecognized events-- and they do have a lot of traction locally. I volunteer for two local to me and they are always at max capacity for such small venues (usually 150 competitors / day is the cutoff… not bad for facilities that are only on a few acres…). They have been gradually increasing in cost in the last few years - in 2015 I took a baby to its first show and it was $85 - now it is $150.

The drawback with the US is that we are geographically far too spaced out for any one particular “unsanctioned” corporation to take over. Even in Area 1(northern region), you’re looking at anywhere from two to seven hours of travel from one destination to the other. Not a small area, and very diverse, with very different challenges and venues available.

Area 1 is very communicative… but… we have lost over six major events in the last 15 years. While this doesn’t sound like a lot, several of these venues were fixtures in the area for decades, and several died because they could not compete with “destination events” or events down south.

There is no dearth of riders wanting to compete in Area 1. However, rider culture has changed over the last twenty years to expect exactly what another poster up thread mentioned – perfect footing, perfect accommodations, perfect destination food and venue – in a way, who can blame them when they’re paying $600+ for a single weekend?

The problem is, the smaller fixtures and venues can’t compete with Tryon or Jersey Fresh or RH; they have to work with the natural footing they have on XC, or the “twisty” courses in their woods, the not-quite-5 star hotels in the area – and riders don’t like that.

In September one of our longest still-running events hosted an event after record high rainfall for the area. My horse went, with his 70 y/o lease rider to do BN. Those in Area 1, know Area 1 is famous for wet conditions - I used to always joke, I only competed in the rain. This event is put on by a former 4* rider who knows her stuff. People pulled up to the event the morning of, and instantly started posting on social media about the courses being “underwater” and “dangerous” because the XC was wet and the stadium had big swaths of puddles in it. (By the way: AA perspective here - those people need to learn the difference between “wet” and “dangerous” footing. The footing was perfectly fine. My shod horse didn’t even run in studs.) There was a huge storm on FB about how the venue should have cancelled, and they were unethical to keep it running, that riders and horses were “in jeopardy” riding the course because they could “slip and slide everywhere”… A ton of people scratched, and were furious they didn’t get their money back and aired these complaints right on FB for everyone to see.

The thing is, this exact scenario is how we just lost another event in the area, that ran for nearly 70 years. Competitors knew the event was only hosted spring and fall (our wet season), they knew that the event often hosted dressage on grass in one of the lower fields which was close to a leach runoff for a highway, they knew that most of the XC traveled up behind the main area into a wooded tract – and they would enter anyway. Then it would rain the morning before, and they would call the show organizer to scratch, and would demand their money back, and then when the SO wouldn’t refund (it’s right in the omnibus that scratches will not be refunded, which no one reads anymore) they would blast the venue on social media and/or in their private circles. This, quite literally, killed this particular event because show organizers got exhausted with the fickle and entitled riders, and washed their hands of the whole thing.

So yeah, I think we’re onto something mentioning the “H/J Model” and the “Destination Experience” – but it’s not just the people at the top to blame. Riders are to blame too. They want the fancy footing and the immaculate venue and the destination feeling – and it’s coming at the cost of all the little venues that kept the sport alive all these years.

[Jealoushe]

@beowulf

My horse went, with his 70 y/o lease rider to do BN.

I agree with all your posts but this is just beyond precious!!

This is off topic but eventing has SO many riders in their 70s!! It is incredible.

[Jealoushe]

That is really disappointing about the footing comments etc. I remember I hosted one of my short course events and it was a little wet but not at all muddy and someone asked me how they were expected to make it around the one turn when the ground was wet. I said put corks in or if barefoot then go slow, drop to trot or walk. It was a schooling show, very very low level beginner. The thought of riding for the conditions hadn’t even occurred to them.

There used to be an event in Ontario that was top top class. The owners also had ownership in one of our best team horses. There was a gorgeous grand prix showjump ring on grass beside a river that had a sprinkler system. Preparing for the event they had been watering the SJ ring. The day of the event it absolutely poured, and the SJ ring was underwater. There was a good few cms sitting on top of the footing. The thing is, the footing was still fine. I jumped my little Appy pony around the Pre Training (Novice) with no issues and she was barefoot.

Anyways, so many people whined and complained all day that the owners said that’s that. No more events for you.

Never had another event. One of the BEST events in Canada, one of the few in our area, owned by huge supporters of the sport. Huge loss.

[Libby2563]

The recent comments on footing made me think of this article I happened to read yesterday about Mike Plumb:

1968: Invisible Jumps And A Monsoon

Heavy rain soaked the 1968 Olympic Games in Mexico City. As endurance day progressed, conditions deteriorated so much that jumps were underwater, with just the tops of the flags indicating the location of the obstacles. By the time the final third of the contestants left the start box, horses were being pulled downstream by the current. Organizers moved flags further downstream where they hoped the current was weaker and put up bushes to show where the flooded bank was.

“[Kevin Freeman] dragged horses out of the ditches on the cross-country because there was a monsoon, and there was a lot of trouble,” Plumb recalled. “I fell at one of my water jumps where all you could see were flags. The water was so high you couldn’t see the jump. It was a mess—Mexico was a mess, but we won a silver medal in spite of that.”

From The Magazine: A Lifetime Of Olympics

That sounds a little on the dangerous side but it seems like maybe riders have swung too far to the other end of the spectrum since then…

[OverandOnward]

@Blugal

The solution I’m exploring is starting a series of unrecognized local mini events or derbies… harkening back to the 70s…

@Willesdon

One of the drivers for BE to change is the recent growth of Unaffiliated Eventing. The standard of this circuit has grown beyond recognition in the past five years or so as a couple of very professional organisers have begun running several shows.

@Willesdon

The same highly experienced people are volunteering for both BE and Unaffiliated. Competitors are often jumping courses built by BE trained designers and builders. The rules used are the same as those of BE. There is medical cover, same as BE. The costs are lower for competitors.

@Willesdon

The Unaffiliated tend to run at the lower levels, up to 100cm usually, but this is the largest market so it meets a need.

"This is the largest market … "

There are two ways to view the larger LL market.
1- A great bunch of regulars who are worth the attention and who make a fun circuit.
2- A wallet for the UL’s, filched through organizational dues and fees and whatnot.

The USEA has always been fixated on the UL’s, even the FEI divisions which are not part of it’s purview. The LL’s are an afterthought in terms of service to the members. Even though the LL’s are the vast majority of members.

But the USEA was founded by UL’s and run by UL’s. So, not a surprise they think about UL’s.

A lot of agitation from the LL’s occasionally gets some serious attention. For example the so-called American Eventing Championships – which were spun off so they wouldn’t bother the actual USEA – and have become an annoyance to the organization which is trying to do as little as possible with this AEC goal it has set for the LL members. And which the UL’s and pros are trying to hijack, and probably will. And so on and so on.

@Willesdon

Partly because organisers and landowners don’t have as much hassle as BE has been known to hand out. The organisers can put on events when they wish, with no reference to a national schedule.

There are circuits of wonderful unrecognized events here in the U.S. as well. Some run on courses that are also running recognized, so the course is “proved” as quality.

Texas is a great place for unrecognized eventing. There are probably more unrecognized events than recognized, and they run over the same courses, same rules. Well done horse trials at a fraction of the cost of recognized.

Organizers have told me that the unrecognized horse trials are the ones that support the farm. The recognized are expensive for them, are not money-makers, and they run them only to keep up the reputation of the cross-country course and the venue.

The local unrecognized circuits will affiliate with a local-ish eventing group (an example is the North Texas Eventing Association “NTEA”). These regional groups organize a calendar with the (independent) organizers/landowners that minimizes conflicts and maximizes opportunities to ride. They offer year-end awards which provide more incentive to members to get out there and ride in the next horse trials. The include recognized events in their calendar and give slightly better points for those wins. But mostly it is not hard to win a year-end award just on unrecognized results. And the year-end party is more laid back and fun, just imo.

In the U.S. as well, the “parallel” unrecognized circuits are the way forward for those riders who have had enough of the shenanigans of the USEF and USEA. In some ways eventing has already split into the LL’s & UL’s, and the unrecognized vs recognized. On a local ad-hoc basis – and that has the potential to work just fine.

@Jealoushe

it’s like yet again the amateurs and “professional” amateurs are forgotten, meanwhile they carry the sport.

This has been the way in the USEA for as long as I’ve know it, since the early 2000’s.

[OverandOnward]

@Jealoushe

The thought of riding for the conditions hadn’t even occurred to them.

I blame instructors and trainers. Back in the day I was taught how to ride on wet footing, in wet weather. Learning to ride on wet ground was right up there with learning to post and to canter.

Definitely adjustments must be made, but they are very do-able. Many horses are always in 4-wheel drive anyway in their way of going, as it were.

But today instructors can’t always get riders to put on a raincoat and ride in a wet lesson. Can’t get the riders to learn how to safely handle turns, how to watch footing, what to look for and what to do about it.

So many covered arenas these days, riders don’t have to ride in the wet. I live in a climate where not riding in the rain means not riding much – except that these days many riders won’t board if there is not a covered arena.

Personally I think it is a point of personal growth to be able to tell a story about the time one rode a course in the rain and mastered it.

But I have rider friends who flatly refuse to ride in the rain, and are squeamish about any level of wet. Claim it is “dangerous”. I’ve been doing it for over 30 years and never had an accident. It’s dangerous if you don’t do it properly, but so is riding. It’s something to learn, just like every other riding skill. But instructors just don’t teach it any more (some of them don’t know how either).

[The same riders also don’t want to ride a trail through a densely wooded area. I am not sure if they think the trees will kidnap them, or wild animals will eat them … dunno what is the problem. They never articulate it well.]

[beowulf]

To play Devil’s Advocate, most venues won’t allow riders to ride on their field when it’s muddy or wet, either.

Serious competitors go to serious barns with the good footing upgrades and the beautiful indoor and the grid-installed turnouts. Those horses don’t see mud; they don’t get turned out in mud or when it’s raining; riders are told not to walk on the grass and/or the XC when it’s wet, or after rain, because it destroys the footing and leaves poaching (holes) in the topsoil. Owners don’t want riders on the field if it’s boggy, so they close XC until it dries. I had my XC schoolings cancelled a few times on me by the owners of the facility after rainspells for that reason.

Then you run into your issue, where trainers don’t know how, and their students don’t know how, because they don’t want to or they don’t have access to, and the cycle just perpetuates endlessly until every competitor expects XC footing to be “all weather”, dressage to be on GGT, SJ to only be in GGT, and every event to only be hosted when it’s 70F and sunny. Any other time events should cancel because it’s too cold / too hot / too rainy / too cloudy / too shadowy / too muddy / too wet / grass dressage ring / grass SJ ring / no food truck / stabling in an indoor / etc.

Not just any one problem, not just any one solution – and I am fresh out of solutions when it just seems like no matter what, riders go down south to skip the cold, and then come back up north in the summer and expect the northern shows to have the exact same footing/amenities. Riders are “chasing” their winter venues (down south) in their summer home.

[Xctrygirl]

This is one big reason why I respect the hell out of Boyd.

He purposefully keeps his Xc open on crappy weather and footing. He believes that riders need to practice in all the varieties of footing.

Em