Etiquette question

[CindyCRNA]

I posted this on Foxhunters On Facebook and got some well thought out answers so I thought I might post here to educate myself further and maybe someone here that may be new to hunting like myself.

I am brand new to hunting this year. I ride tail end of first field. It is not unusual for me to be the only one without colors. We were coming in from a hunt a month ago, the barn in sight, and my big strided mare ended up in the middle of the hunt field. Something felt wrong but we were almost home. I was unsaddling and was approached by a very nice, experienced hunter who knew I was new. He gently explained that tradition dictated that I not pass any staff. I assumed he meant the whippers as I never passed the huntsman. I DO know better than that, LOL! I thought this would be easy but as we were coming in from a hunt last week, again, close to the barn, 2 whippers broke off and circled back to pull in a couple of hounds with ADD. They then pulled in behind me. (We were in a huge, open field) I circled around and pulled in behind them. They looked quizzical but never said anything. On FB, someone wrote, when in doubt, always yield way. This makes sense. Was I being overly cautious since whippers circle back frequently coming in? Do I always pull in behind no matter how many times the whipper pulls out of the group?

[gothedistance]

Sometimes the people in the field think they know every nuance of etiquette and what the staff demands, but sometimes they invent stuff that isn’t “real”. This is what you experienced.

I whipped-in for many years, and I’ll give you my take on what is real: When the hunt is ended, and everyone is walking back to the meet following the Master, or you are walking in early, the whip staff would prefer (at least we did in our hunt) for any field member to keep a steady straight course quietly returning to the trailers, and we’d just move around you. We really don’t want you stopping and then turning around, tailing us. If a hound goes blasting past you, and we need to whip it back to the huntsman, just stop and let us go past. Otherwise, carry on. Don’t circle around and start following us. We’re busy, and don’t need the distraction of you being there like a shadow. It’s annoying.

Does that help?

[Huntin_Pony]

Cindy:

I can’t speak for your hunt, but I would agree that “when in doubt, always yield.” That said, most hunts that I have attended would have no problem if you were hacking in with the rest of the field and did as the other riders did.

If you are in the woods and a staff member approaches from behind, you should call out “staff please” and clear the trail. In an open field, I would call out but proceed with the field, assuming the staff member had plenty of room to pass.

I would think that the field master at your hunt would be pleased if you asked him or her about some of these matters when there was ample time to talk. By the way, the usual abbreviation for a “whipper-in” is “whip,” not “whipper.”

Good for you being concerned about these things, but don’t be too worried!

Have fun!!

[Beverley]

When I’'m whipping in- admittedly much less often now- in the scenario you describe, just continue as you are. If in a big wide open field I need to get in front of you, I’ll do that. But there are a number of reasons I might choose, or need, to stay behind you- shy hound or puppy coming along that I am waiting on, and may need to go back to get, or, whether hounds are running or being gathered, I might need to stay behind the field (of 1 to 100) in order to quickly turn and go the other way if need be. More than once I’ve encountered the overzealous field where individuals yell ‘staff please’ or the incorrect ‘ware staff’ when they see me coming behind, making a wrong assumption. If I’m comiing behind in tighter quarters and need to get by one person or a big field, I won’t assume you are psychic, I’ll bid the last person in the group a cheery (and quiet) ‘excuse me’ or if I’m in a hurry perhaps a more purposeful ‘staff please’ so people have time to step aside in an orderly manner. More than once I’ve been held up by a field that went chaotic trying to get out of the way, where I could have just cruised on by, on one side or the other, no fuss, no muss. But I did appreciate their concern.

As has been noted- by all means, ask the master about this and any other questions you have, he or she will be delighted at your interest in the sport, and in doing things right.

BTW I detest use of the term ‘whip’ to describe the hard working person rather than whipper-in or the plural whippers-in- but I’ve long since lost that vote, it seems.

[gothedistance]

[QUOTE=Beverley;7331298]
BTW I detest use of the term ‘whip’ to describe the hard working person rather than whipper-in or the plural whippers-in- but I’ve long since lost that vote, it seems.[/QUOTE]
Not with the driving folk you haven’t! We are “whips” when on the box seat driving anything from a single to multiples. That is the correct term for a private carriage driver. (A commercial or public carriage driver would be simply called a “driver”; if on a coach s/he would be a “coachman”)

But if a carriage driving whip is hunting as part of the huntsman’s staff helping with the hounds, we are rightfully known as a “whipper-in”. Not “whip”…unless we’re whipping-in from the box seat! Then either or both terms apply. :lol:

Clear as mud?!:lol:

[WildBlue]

Something I’ll add is that the biggest service you (‘you’ meaning any field member) can do to staff and hounds is to pay attention, particularly if you’re last in line. Keep your eyes and ears open, look to the sides and rear frequently, and draw your horse’s attention to any nearby staff and hounds (I look straight at the hounds and gently use one rein to draw my horse’s nose toward them while giving a reassuring scritch on the shoulder. All of our horses figured out they’re supposed to be paying attention to the activity outside the field pretty quickly.)

It’s both frustrating and dangerous to come up behind a group of riders tootling along in happy obliviousness and taking up every bit of real estate. We have a lot of trails through close, thorny country, so this encourages hounds to literally weave through the field and under/behind horses to reach the huntsman. Even good horses can take a quick step or lift a hoof if they’re taking their cue from the inattentive rider and are then completely surprised by a hound careening into their legs while attempting to get past. Not only can hounds get injured by the field, but a kicked hound may refuse to ever pass horses again to return to the huntsman.

In the case the OP described, I’d want to see the field paying attention so the hounds could safely rejoin the huntsman if they went by the most direct route (hounds, some are smrt). But I wouldn’t expect anyone to make way unless requested to do so. It is REALLY nice to be acknowledged and know that people are prepared to point their horses’ haunches away if you need past.

[Ponyclubrocks]

In my hunt protocol goes out the window when hacking in. We don’t follow any particular order, we chat at will, ride abreast etc… best to check with your field master regarding what the expectations of your hunt are. Every hunt has it’s own customs.

[Badger]

When hacking in the field should still be mindful of their field master and stay behind that person. Too often I see field members chatting in the hack in and not paying attention and not realize that they are no longer in the field but are passing staff and riding up on hounds. This is in a scenario when the staff is packing the hounds back to the trailer or kennels with field following behind. Field should still stay behind field master and give room to hounds and staff. I’ve seen this in a variety of hunts, people chatting and giving their horse their head and being in attentive because the hunt is over.

[tangledweb]

Some field members think the field staying in its starting order is a big deal, most don’t. Once upon a time the field rode in seniority order with 2nd class citizens like children and grooms relegated to the back. Apart from the coveted spot just behind the master, most people don’t really care, but if they’ve carefully picked a spot near a horse or rider they trust to behave they won’t appreciate being overtaken.

Whipers in are generally either standing still or moving at least as fast as the field. If they are still or slow you would generally be fine to considerately pass them (preferably on the side opposite to where the hounds are). If they are moving, yield to them if they even slightly look like they might want to pass you, but sometimes commuting along with the field is the most efficient way to go in a narrow space.

Circling around in open ground to force them in front of you does not sound productive. Unless your entire hunt has drill team precision it would be a very inefficient way to allow them to pass the entire field.