European Dressage Championships;

[Willesdon]

@Manni01

… I wonder why its ok for CH to have a bad day and ride a less than ideal horse and still get very high scores for this specific ride but most other people get told that the judges simply have to judge what they see during the test….

CH only mentioned his “bad day” during an interview after his ride, as I recall, and he often rides a “less than ideal” horse (e.g. Nip Tuck, Valegro) and yet he still gets high scores because he is an exceptional rider on any horse that he sits on - and the judges score what they see.

I could believe that COTH people have seen only the top three rides online and haven’t spent much time watching the rest. Jessica Von Bredow-Werndl had a beautiful ride to gain individual gold. Her horse is also “better”.

[libgrrl]

I’ve been spending way, way too much time on Allan Buck (the Reverend’s) group, I guess. I love Carl, and I thought these assessments were kind!

[alicen]

Kind?

[libgrrl]

Group in question pretty much thinks all competitive dressage is brutal, most other types of riding as well. Ingrid Klimke is also an affront to her sainted father, according to them. There has always been sort of a “car wreck” appeal to reading the discussions, but it seems like anyone that questions the general zeitgeist of the group has been booted out, or left of their own accord for their sanity’s sake. I probably need to join them!

[alicen]

@libgrrl

Group in question pretty much thinks all competitive dressage is brutal,

Of course they think it’s brutal, because they haven’t a clue.

[libgrrl]

I’m still waiting for a video (filmed in the last few years) of their version of exemplary riding (as are many, I think). At this point, I’m pretty sure it won’t happen, because it doesn’t exist.

[alicen]

@libgrrl

I probably need to join them!

No, no, don’t do it! On the other hand, if you do join, do share.

[libgrrl]

I’ve been a (largely silent) member for years!! I’m still just waiting for that unicorn ride

[lazaret]

There’s at least one poster here who is also a member there and posts prolific works of fiction about her and her horse’s capabilities here. And no, it’s not the poster in this thread.

[Manni01]

Wow… you are sure you are not missing something ? Maybe you should do some more research

[Manni01]

Thank you!! And as I said before I really like Carl Hester and I loved his rides on Uthopia and I cannot judge whether his horse is better or not (the commentator used this wording because I assume she wanted to comment tactfully on his ride) because I have never seen this horse in real.

[Manni01]

Are you sure that you watched any of the rides? Or is this just a general opinion

And what is cool is that in your most successful national dressage team in recent years you had 2 of these horrible immigrant Germans .

[DownYonder]

@Manni01

Are you sure that you watched any of the rides? Or is this just a general opinion.

And what is cool is that in your most successful national dressage team in recent years you had 2 of these horrible immigrant Germans.

I never said anything about “horrible immigrant Germans.” For God’s sake, my own grandfather was a German immigrant, and my grandmother was the daughter of a German immigrant. So you can just stop with those kind of BS statements. And I have no problem with native Germans being on the U.S. team - they went through the legal process to become naturalized U.S. citizens, just like millions of other immigrants over the years, so good for them.

It seems to me that you are in a snit because the judges placed Hester in 5th place, ahead of Wandres (6th place) and Werth (7th place). And Hester’s placing combined with the 2nd and 3rd place finishes of Dujardin and Fry put the Brits on top of the podium, with Germany coming in 2.546 points behind to finish in 2nd place. Oh, the shame for Germany.

But perhaps you should talk to the German judge, Ulrike Nivelle, who was the judge at E for the GP test that decided the team placings. Even she placed Hester ahead of Wandres and Werth – 4th place for Hester, 5th place for Wandres, and 8th place for Werth. In fact, of the seven judges, only two placed Wandres higher than Hester, and only one placed Werth higher than Hester. Are you implying that the other judges (including Nivelle) don’t know what they are doing?

[Edited to emphasize a point.]

[Equibrit]

@Manni01

Wow… you are sure you are not missing something ? Maybe you should do some more research

Well - that’s a sorry stab at sarcasm.

@DownYonder

And I have no problem with native Germans being on the U.S. team - they went through the legal process to become naturalized U.S. citizens, just like millions of other immigrants over the years, so good for them.

Makes you wonder why they left.

[CanteringCarrot]

As someone that has lived outside of my “home country” there are soo many reasons why one would leave.

I actually prefer Germany to the US. I do not like living in the US. Germany, the UK, and a few other EU countries are more appealing to me. If one asked why I left one country, or left and then came back, I could give them a list of reasons. It can be rather individual and personal.

There are immigrants everywhere across the US and EU. It doesn’t mean they left home because of something “bad.”

There are many things I prefer about competing in Germany, but there are some things I like about the US system as well, but also am ok with much of the UK system too.

I am happy to see any country on top of the podium that earns it. I don’t agree with all of the training methods or styles, but if you’re the top competitor(s) on that given day, then that’s what puts you at the top.

This is also an interesting sport with an interesting “variable” which is the horse. For example, I’m curious to see Jessica von Bredow-Werndl’s next top mount when things begin to wind down with Dalera. I do follow her on SM, and am in the Aubenhausen Club, so I am aware of others that she’s riding. I do like seeing these top riders on different horses and gaining insight into their training/methods.

[Manni01]

Wow…. It’s amazing what you interpret in my simple Statement that Carl Hester’s horse did (IMO) not carry his weight correctly during the tests because the hind legs were most of the time more going down instead of going forward…. And everybody who is willing to take the time to watch a video can see exactly this….

You start to get very creative about possible reasons why I could write this…. Maybe I simply wrote down my observation and maybe I am not as creative as you are in finding reasons for it……

And FYI (hope it’s the right abbreviation). I don’t care for the nation if I like a ride… yes I do like Jessica von Bredow Werndl but only because I watch her everyday in the video when we do our workouts together . I admire her for her discipline!
Then I like Blue Horse Zepter because of my young horse ( The rider is from Denmark but I still love the horse) and I admit that I love love Heilines Danciera…. I don’t assume anybody here has ever seen her performing but I love love her elegance (not from Germany either). Just for future references about my preferences

[DownYonder]

@Manni01, I watched the video of the ride in question, as well as videos of several other rides. I agree with you that Hester’s mount is not as ideally built for high level dressage as others, nor is his movement on a par with others. It is all the more remarkable then that Hester can get such lovely rides from the horse and can hold his own in top European competition. If he can achieve that quality of a ride from a not-so-fancy horse, can you imagine what he could do if he had a really super quality horse?

Also, I am sure you are aware that gait mechanics are not the single overriding factor for scoring on a dressage test, and as we saw, the majority of the judges believed that the other aspects of Hester’s ride were certainly good enough to place him higher than all other riders save the top 4 (von Bredow-Werndl, Dujardin, Fry, and Merrald).

As for preferring his rides on other horses, many people would agree with you. I also prefer Werth’s rides on some of her previous horses - esp. Bella Rose and Weihegold - but those mares are retired, as are Hester’s previous mounts including Uthopia. So we have to appreciate what riders can do with their current mounts, and respect those who can get world-class rides out of horses who are perhaps a bit more challenged in various ways than previous mounts.

[Manni01]

Thank you!!! I totally agree with you and love your post!!!