I’m curious to hear others’ thoughts on this subject. What keeps you loyal to a trainer? Conversely, what are some things that would cause you to leave a trainer?
Does their business match up with my goals and abilities?
Does their instruction style match up with my learning style, and are our personalities compatible?
Do they generally conduct themselves professionally (good communication, ability to schedule)?
Do they provide good management of the horses in their care? Do the horses in their training program improve over time? Do their students improve over time?
In reality, it’s hard to evaluate a lot of this unless and until you’ve been with someone for at least a little while. (I also consider this to be an extremely situational analysis. Someone looking for a long-term lesson or part lease program is going to have to make different trade offs to find a suitable trainer than someone who owns one probably makes. The only constant is that no one and no program is perfect so trade offs are inevitable!)
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I absolutely wouldn’t stay with any trainer who puts wining prizes and keeping clients above the welfare of the horse. “Welfare” is a pretty vague concept but I know it when I see it.
I do stay with a trainer who has solid teaching skills, who can analyse a problem and has many tools to solve it, both in my riding and in the horse. I want to end a lesson with the horse going better and with my skills and understanding improved. Every ride on every horse teaches me something but a good trainer can set one up to learn.
As an adult, with years of experience under my belt, I expect to be treated with respect, as a fellow adult and as a client. I do want honest feedback, not soap, but I will not tolerate rudeness or a raised voice - such behaviour is unprofessional. Riding is fun for me: I want to enjoy it.
As an adult, paying to be taught, I expect that during a lesson my trainer is training me, focused on the lesson, not talking on the phone or holding conversations with other people… That is also unprofessional, disorganised and annoying. I wouldn’t stay with a trainer who takes my money but can’t be bothered to teach. Actually, another dislike is a trainer who will only teach those she deems to be ‘good’: riding needs the best trainers right at the very start, from the first time. How many people have to un-learn bad habits created by poor teaching?
And because I believe all people should be respected and treated well, and that happy staff make for happy horses, I wouldn’t stay with a trainer who treats staff poorly. I’m always amazed that people spend $$$$$ on a horse and pay people $ to care for them.
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Wow, this is a loaded question. But I’ll bite.
My best experiences with trainers have been those who are transparent and treat all of their clients equally. They have regular, frank discussions with me and I trust their opinions.
My worse experiences have been with trainers who, for whatever reason, have had things go on in their personal life that then get brought to the barn. It hasn’t been necessarily how they treated my horses, as I vet trainers pretty well before I go - but just personal things that irritate me. :lol: But, I’ll admit that I’m a pretty high maintenance client in the sense of I’d do it myself, but I don’t have the time so I need you guys to do what I’m paying you for - otherwise, I’m wasting money.
The last three “trainers” I’ve left were for the following reasons, in no particular order: [INDENT]- The assistant who gave me weekly lessons on my horse quit, and the head trainer didn’t have time for me to come lesson so I only got to ride in a boot camp before horse shows. That lasted three months while I patiently waited for him to get a new assistant, which never transpired. I still think he’s brilliant and one of the best, I just want to be able to ride my horse regularly, even if it is in training - which didn’t mesh with his program without an assistant.
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I had a discussion at the beginning of the year about my goals for the season and where I wanted to be, there was talk of me leasing a horse in the barn to accomplish said goals, but then I had to send multiple texts and calls to get on the lesson schedule and then I saw another client riding said horse in a show. I basically said, look I understand doing things for money and I don’t fault anyone for that and I’m sure the client paid a pretty penny to take the horse to this show - but a heads up would’ve been appreciated so that we could pivot on plans. Last I heard, nothing had changed - but, actions speak louder than words and I was tired of chasing people down to try to have any follow through.
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Horse was at a barn four hours away with my all time favorite trainer, who had gone out on her own (the assistant from above), but in order for her to pay the bills she was head of training for a single, wealthy client. Every time I made the trip (usually one weekend a month with an overnight stay to ride two days in a row), the client would interrupt our lessons with something mundane that had to be done RIGHT THEN. It was a weird power trip for the client, I think, but she kept screwing with my schedule and my trainer wasn’t thrilled about her - so trainer went back to work for someone else, and I took horse home. [/INDENT]
I feel like if you have to ask if you should leave, then the seed has already been planted and you probably should. BUT you should be introspective as to what caused the initial riff and take steps to ensure it doesn’t happen again.
I do have an unpopular opinion of a blurb going around Facebook right now about how we need to treat trainers super nice all of the time and give them grace through everything. I think most of us know horses are unpredictable and even the best made plans can go to hell in an instant. However, I think any other industry where someone has set up their own business - whether it’s lawn care, or a dental practice, or whatever - they are solely responsible for the outcome of their business ventures. Someone can be a great trainer, but a terrible business owner, and it’s faulty to expect clients to just deal with it because “it’s the industry”. It’s very difficult to find people that are both stellar trainers and stellar business people, but if you do - hold them tight! :lol:
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A trainer trains horses. A coach trains riders and produces partnerships, often for competition. For either one, you look at their obvious results easily, either the horses they train, or the horse/rider combinations they produce in public. With either, you want to see happy horses, doing their job in a relaxed and positive fashion, without a lot of tension, anger, or punishment. You want to see those ears up, bright equine faces, horses who come to be with their trainer by choice, who like their trainer. Horses who stand at the back of the stall, turn their back on their trainer when they come into the horse’s space, do so for a reason. For coaches, you want to see riders who ride well, accurately use their cues to their horses, and “like” their horses, care about their horses, and are happy with the money they have spent to attain their current level of horsemanship. But to see what REALLY goes on, you need to watch the trainer or coach at home, when they think that no one is watching and see what goes on behind the scene. And you have to have enough experience and knowledge of horsemanship and riding and training to be able to come to some conclusion about what you see, which is the crux of the problem with green potential “clients” looking for either training for their horse, or for coaching for themselves. Green people don’t know what to look for, by definition, and what to look out for, they tend to believe what they are told by a salesman, a self promoter, because they don’t know enough to make their own judgement. This is how bad trainers and bad coaches stay in business. Great self promotion and good salesmen, a line of bullshit and the ability to extend control over others. Trust no one.
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The ideal trainer/coach embodies the following–(IMO)
Ethical and professional behaviors and practices relating to horses and people. Challenges and pushes a horse/rider envelope without over-facing or destroying confidence. Honesty and integrity. Good horsemanship practices–good care, maintenance, does not drill, not in a rush with younger animals, emphasizes horse fitness for the job asked, supports cross training ie proper flatwork, trail rides and the occasional cross country school for example. Calm and confident. Supportive of learning opportunities that arise ie clinics, etc. Emphasizes proper flatwork along with gymnastics and coursework. Willing to trouble shoot and work through issues with horse and rider on the ground and under saddle. Knowledgeable to the level the horse and rider want to have success at, yet emphasizes proper basics and foundation. Supportive but offers honest feedback. Teaches all clients to become better riders and horse people, rather than just emphasizing ribbons and winning.
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Thanks, you all. This has been helpful. I obviously have a motive or I wouldn’t have asked the question. For two years, I’ve been trying to make it work with this trainer…but it’s just not working. There are some golden handcuffs (convenient location, very good horse care) that make this choice difficult. But at this point, this trainer is not furthering my horse’s development or my own. Sigh. It’s hard to walk away from good horse care…really hard. What a crappy choice to have to make.
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…
I’m probably the least loyal student / client ever. I don’t like the way you (general you) teach/train/ride/care for my horse; I’m out. Bye.
I am loyal to my horse. Period. But I don’t have showing or training “goals” either so that gives me a lot of freedom.
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If the trainer is for my kids (all grown now) the criteria to stay would be enjoyment. If the child loved going and had fun when there (and of course was safe) then does it really matter if he/she wins classes, or demonstrates any progress? The times I pulled kids out of someone’s training program were when the trainer over stated her “program” --told me that she would work with the kids for “five or six weeks” on the flat, then start them over fences --(kids were riding my two solid jumping horses --just needed someone other than mom to get them started) —then after the six weeks were up, trainer claimed that 1) she never said that 2) she had no insurance for o/f work 3) she had no access to jumps --I’d have to bring them in along with the kids for lessons —we left her immediately.
Second time was when the trainer kept giving the same lesson over and over --it was o/f at my facility. Guy would come (well recommended), tell us about all his showing in Europe, have the kid get on, then have her do the same warm up followed by the same pattern of obstacles every lesson for six weeks. I asked if he had plans to do anything different. His response: “Why? This works.” --For what? Kid was aspiring to event, horse was solid with event experience --kid needed dressage, stadium, and cc introduction --not the same four ground poles and a vertical every week for 45 min. We have a dressage ring, a full set of stadium fences, and a moderate CC course of permanent questions --we quit him and found someone who was more in line with what we wanted to do (kid went on to ride at CIC** in the following years).
Worst one was a reasonably good trainer, again, he came to the farm --who after giving kid lessons for the summer, drove to her boarding school and tried to talk her into leaving school to go professional with him as her coach —school called me because permission must be given by a parent before the child can be allowed to speak on campus to non-school adults.
As for me leaving my trainers --I’m pretty loyal, but when COVID hit, neither of my instructor/trainers [one Western, one English] would do video lessons (older folks, not really into computers). With no other choice, I found a great trainer/instructor in NZ (Kirstin Kelly Equestrian on Facebook) who watches my videos (about two a week), critiques with a voice over so I can see what she sees, then gives me practices to improve. And we have!! Both horse and I are at a much improved level than when we started!! Best of all (other than the voice over critiques that I can see my errors as she does), is I don’t have to haul, I can do lessons when I want to --and send as many videos as I want to --all for $20 a month! She always gets my videos back to me within 24 hours.
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There are 2 separate questions here.
How do you evaluate a new trainer who is putting on a good face?
How do you muster up the courage to leave a longstanding relationship with a trainer that isn’t having the success you want?
The first question is primarily about information. What can you verify, what can you watch, how do you see through the promises and charm and salesmanship to the truth?
The second question is primarily about emotions. Once you know the program isn’t working for you, how do you gather the courage and initiative to move out?
The first question is like evaluating someone’s online dating profile and the second is like finally divorcing :).
Of course there is a grey area in the middle where it isn’t clear if the problem is rider (lazy, unmotivated, not coachable), horse (unsound of mind or body), or coach. If the problem is coach, then the problem can be any mix of incompetence, personality issues, time management, dishonesty, etc. Figuring all this out is complex, and usually no one else can really help you.
I would say though that when you’ve decided to go, it’s definitely time to go because you probably no longer respect or like or trust this coach.
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What has kept me /my daughter with a trainer-
Like the way her horses go & are handled, treated with respect, feel safe, looking forward to your next lesson/ show.
(Probably too simple : )
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I think you should be most loyal to yourself and your horse. What keeps me loyal to a trainer is great care, training that will further myself and my horse, and communication through all things. I think that it’s normal to outgrow trainers. I think it’s almost a plus for trainers because they did their job and took you as far as they could. At that point, it’s time to find a new trainer.
It’s hard but I’ve never regretted leaving when I have done it in the past.
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For me, like everyone else who has posted above me, there is a lot that goes into that decision.
Why I leave a trainer:
If their skillset and method of teaching is not fostering improvement in myself or my horse. In addition, those who value money over welfare of the horse are not people I’m willing to stay with.
Since I have been an adult, I’ve only owned two horses. The rest of the time I spent borrowing horses. So improvement in the horse was still part of the equation, but not as big of a part if it were my own horse because in most cases I was riding just a few days a week and in many cases I was sharing the horse with other riders.
The first trainer I rode with as an adult had very nice horses and taught me a lot about horse care and about riding. But eventually it got to the point where she wanted me to lease one of the horses in the barn and it wasn’t something I could afford to do. So I ended up on her back burner (understandably so) and due to some other non-horse related things going on in my life at that time, I left. I also later found out she referred to me as worthless and lazy (I had worked for her over a summer), so she was not someone I was interested in going back to.
I then started riding at a brand new barn with a trainer who was my same age. She was very green and it became evident after a year that I wasn’t going to learn a whole lot in that program. I also bought my own horse at that time and moved to another facility.
Eventually with my horse, I started riding at another barn with a new to me trainer. He helped me with the issues I was having and then I sold my horse. So I rode some of his lesson horses for a couple years until I got another horse of my own. His program didn’t work extremely well for my green as grass horse, so after my horse moved home I didn’t continue lessoning with him.
I then moved on to yet another trainer that would come and work with my horse and I on our property. She was exactly what we needed. I then sold that gelding after I had my son. She doesn’t do hunter/jumper lessons, otherwise I’d still be riding with her.
I now ride with trainer #2 again (well, when I’m not pregnant at least) and partial lease one of her horses. Her level of knowledge has improved leaps and bounds from where it was when I last rode with her. She gives me exercises to work on outside of lessons that I understand and during lessons we are able to build on what we’ve been doing and end better than we began. I am also the type of person who has to analyze everything and really talk through what we’re doing. She always listens and rarely if ever are we not on the same page.
I have been with my instructor for over 10 years.
In our first lesson he picked up something that I did not know I was doing, but more importantly as an instructor I honestly don’t think I would have picked it up if I was the one instructing me!
I had to take a hiatus as my vehicle became unsuitable for towing horses on our float. Rather than get it fixed I saved for a newer bigger vehicle. Then Covid19 hit.
Finally a new to me ute. I took him there last week. I came home with a different horse! I went back after doing the homework set this week and again a different horse. I might have to change his name!
So after 10 years I still learn something every single lesson even though I have been riding and having lessons since before I could walk.
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Lol to me it’s mostly just competency and if I like them. Idk I’ve had really only good experiences I feel like all the trainers I’ve had take amazing care of their horses. I’ve mostly only ever moved barns because of geography. I left the barn where I learned to ride because my goals mismatched their program but that was really hard for me because I loved them a lot. I don’t like being yelled at but tbh at the end of the day if I like and respect you I don’t ever stay upset about that for more than a few seconds. I understand being frustrated and every trainer I’ve had who screamed at me was right and the few times I just asked them to explain it nicer they were more than happy to take it down a notch and very understanding lol. I think sometimes people who are grumpy and yell a lot are often times the people who care about the outcome the most. Sometimes I find that coaches who are always nice are the ones who give up on making you improve and care more about keeping you as a client than improving your riding.
I’m not saying this applies across the board obviously just my personal experience.
As a trainer myself, I try really hard to be balanced and adjust myself to everyone’s needs, but it’s hard sometimes! It’s more than just teaching people to ride it’s also keeping people safe! I don’t ever ever get mad at people who try really hard but when you really know the horses well and people don’t listen to you it can be scary.
I have had a really hard time finding instructors as an adult. I do not own but lease and lesson. The first instructor I found seemed great to start out with again (I took 5 years off to have my kiddo) and was marketed as having a robust lesson and leasing program. I noticed a few things that were odd right from the start but I waited it out because I was in a discipline that I had never done before and wasn’t sure if this was just normal practice.
Throughout this time I learned what my non-negotiables were:
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I will not tolerate a trainer who is a different person every time you show up. example: it depended on this trainers previous night as to what her mood would be, it was instantly known if she was having a bad day as everything was a barking order or muttering about stupidity while giving lessons. We are all human, but I cant go to work throwing my fury on everyone because I have a bad day. I would expect a trainer to be professional.
2. I will not tolerate a trainer who gossips. example: every single time a horse took a wrong step, she would go off onto a tangent about how so and so made this horse lame and ‘that is why this horse is broken’. This was an every day occurrence but the person being blamed would change on any given day, depending on who she was mad at. -
I will not tolerate a trainer who puts clients down to make themselves feel better. example: I was witness to the trainer badmouthing clients in front of other clients.
4. I will not tolerate a trainer who blatantly lies and spread false information. example: This trainer told multiple people that I 'could afford a horse and I was just choosing not to because she sees what I purchase on Facebook". This was what made me leave because it is seriously so crazy I cant even understand why someone would even say that. She is correct that I probably could have purchased a horse but I have a small child and am a single mom, so no, I am not willing to purchase a horse. Something I was extremely clear about in the beginning.
5. I will not tolerate a trainer who doesn’t put horse care first, and puts people down because they want to call a vet. example: My best friend (a horse owner and boarder there) had a horse who had some chronic diarrhea. She wanted to call the vet out and the barn owner was so rude to her telling her that it was because of the weather and she was wasting her money. My friend has never balked at the price of a vet bill or anything so this was ridiculous as she owned the horse and has every right to call the vet out when she sees fit.
There were multiple other things that happened here but these were big ones for me. I have some major psych issues from being put through the ringer by this trainer.
I have since found a trainer who I adore. She is down to earth, cares deeply for her horses, NEVER makes me feel stupid for not knowing how to do something (because that is literally why I am taking lessons), and runs a true business, without all of the circus feel.
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@TJohnson , what a sad mess of a trainer. Glad you left. It’s upsetting to me that people have trainers like this. I feel like our sport is fighting extinction; the last thing we need is rottenness on the inside.
slight tangent- I think it’s important to acknowledge that sometimes you have learned all you can from a person and it’s time to move on. There are so many trainers that act like they can take you from short stirrup to Grand Prix- but that’s unreasonable. I wish more people would market themselves as a great kid trainer, an excellent 2ft to 3ft trainer, upper level jumper trainer etc. and then actively create referral networks to keep pipelines full but I recognize that most people don’t want to give up a client once they have them so they stretch themselves or try other tactics to hang onto a client. If you have goals, you need to be with someone who has at least taken past riders to that point if not beyond. I see nothing wrong with thanking a trainer for getting you to this point and moving on when it’s time.
Outside of that- everything mentioned above is crucial too- care, honestly, professionalism etc etc.
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My initial “lesson” instructor was more of a horsemanship trainer. She told me bluntly “I’ve taught you all I can teach you, here’s the phone number of a woman who can take your riding further.” Of course I’ve learned gobs more about horsemanship since then, but for what I was paying for weekly, she admitted when there wasn’t much left to learn on a week-to-week basis.
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