Hi All - how does one determine between butt high growing phase vs dropped back/sway back? Would love it if you have examples of each!
Also - would you be concerned for future soundness in one that had a dropped back conformation flaw? Would you consider this a deal breaker when looking for upper level jumping prospect?
Thanks in advance for your input!
A lot depends on the age. Butt high on a yearling is very different from butt high on a rising 4yo
It also depends on how high at that age. 2h difference at 2 years is very different from 2" at 3.
You also have to look at the 2 halves of the horse. If the hind end looks like a late 2yo in all aspects, from width to muscling, etc, and the front end still looks like a yearling with a thin and/or short neck, small shoulders, etc, that’s different from the 2yo who fully looks like a 2yo but is still a whole hand butt high
Hip high looks very different from a sway back. Do you have a photo of what you are seeing?
I’d run as far and fast as possible from any young horse that had a true sway back.
The lighting and angles are a little iffy in some of those, but the only one that I’d have questions about is #3, personally.
#1 is hip high for sure. #2 is lacking topline muscle and has some atrophy behind the withers. #4 is hip high and has fairly pronounced withers, but the actual spine looks normal from that angle.
A true swayback comes from the skeleton, not the muscle and/or fat (or lack thereof) along the topline. It can’t be fixed with conditioning, physical therapy, etc. and is genetic. Saddlebreds are the most well-known (and dramatic) examples. I don’t think I have any less extreme examples handy to share with you; I wish I did.
I’d say pics 2 and 3 are the same horse. Perhaps even the same day based on some sand splatter on the walls.
Thanks. So none of the above you would consider a true dropped/sway back?
The images are of 3-4yo warmbloods if that makes any difference.
#1/yellow wall I’d want to know the age. If it’s a yearling or maybe early 2yo who has a more mature hind end, very typical butt-high growth stage that doesn’t bother me at all. The size of the feet and slope of the pasterns suggest he’s not a yearling, though if he is, the pasterns alone would turn me off. I realize he’s weighting that LF more than the RF, but as much angle as there is, IMHO that’s too much for a yearling who should be more upright than that
#2/red curtain isn’t butt high at all if you draw a horizontal line across the peak of the wither and the peak of the croup
#3 is one I’d want to the know the age of. It may simply be a more mature-looking young horse who just hit a butt-high growth stage but the hind end doesn’t look that much more mature than the front. He’s actually just barely a smidge butt high. The illusion of more is from the dip behind his withers and the subsequent slope up to his croup which is peaked (would want more info on him, to decide whether that’s ok for now or not). It’s not remotely a sway back, just a developed wither with a drop behind it
#4/right-facing horse looks very much like #3, so even if it’s a different horse, my comments are the same
None of these backs are sway
What do you think of the front to hind difference?
I have a hard time telling what’s a typical butt high youngerster vs conformational flaw of dropped back.
thanks. #1 still may have a good bit of growign to do, as his front end really does look less mature than the hind end. If he recently shot up behind, that could be causing his muscle compensation and looking like his hind end is a bit crouched. On pictures alone, I’d pass, BUT, seeing him in motion, and in person, and a week after this photo, things might look very different
And no, none of these have a sway back
Here’s a conformational sway back
Here’s a great example of a functionally swayed back which isn’t conformation, and how it was rehabbed.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=990426519451002&id=100054509887237&set=a.789109872916002
Thanks for the super analysis. Always working to train my eye.
Horse #1 is a few days shy of 3yo.
Horse #2 is 3.5 yo
Horse #3/4 is 4.5yo
Still learning about assessment of foot/pastern angles. Work in progress!
This is a great site to learn about functional conformation, which is largely quite different from the old school measurements
The butt-high horse may, or may NOT, be functionally downhill. There’s a lot more to it than just that measure.
this makes me feel better about #1, there’s a lot of change still going on
#2 looks like a young, mostly mature (structurally) horse whose neck is a bit younger, and certainly not muscled but still functionally very correct. The front end will come up some more, especially as the withers develop
#3 - his age explains his more cohesive look, especially the neck vs the hind end, and he’s also got some room to grow in front. That peaked group bothers me a bit, but if he just grew behind a bit, could explain it
Are 1, 3 and 4 the same horse? Looks like the white leg marking have been photoshopped out. The Irish 3 yr old (#2) looks good to me.
No
3 and 4 are the same horse
I think i#1 is the same horse, but younger. The matching white leg markings have been drawn over in black to disguise it. @ReReRider can you clarify?
wow, you’re right, at least that the 3/4 horse has had its white markings blacked over. VERY weird
Trying to respect the privacy of friends while trying to learn. Didn’t want to offend anyone if comments were unfavorable re conformation. Not sure that it really matters which horse is or isn’t the same? Purpose was to have a slightly better understanding of conformation.
Really do appreciate all of your comments. Good learning here!
The only thing that really matters in this case, is if 3/4 is the same as 1, as it would be a good exercise in seeing how things change as a horse grows.
I try to find pictures of the parents at the young horse’s age, or the young horse’s older siblings/half siblings at their age.
Nevermind it’s been discussed.
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