Even more Vaquero: Dumb-a$$ philosophical questions

[mvp]

I ask from a traditional dressage perspective. I welcome your answers; trash-talking the other side won’t entertain me.

As I’m experimenting with this nice-minded, horribly-built little horse I’m teaching, I’m getting some questions I hope you guys can help me with.

1. How much hind end strength are you really building with the walking work involving turning or lateral moves and all.of.the.cotton.pickin’ backing up you do?

2. Regarding what the snaffle bit is for: Is your first concern always having a light feel? (And this is one western trainers would like, while a (German) dressage trainer would consider the horse to be terribly behind the bit.) Or do you get light feel, but not stop the exercise/reward until you have moved the foot you intended?

So if I pick up my inside rein with the intention of moving the inside hind leg (and yeah, I’ll use leg in there, too), I really want to let go (or not) in reference to his foot, right? Usually, the horse will soften up front, too. But I don’t want to keep holding his face once he has given me that inside hind leg, right? If I were to do that, I’d defeat the purpose of the bit: controlling the body all the way back to the hind end, not just do some sh!t with the head and neck.

OK, I’ll stop there for now. But there’s plenty more where these kinds of questions came from.

[katarine]

Two questions first?
Who is suggesting backing up ‘that much’?

Who is your ‘guru’ that you are following?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=katarine;7090843]
Two questions first?
Who is suggesting backing up ‘that much’?

Who is your ‘guru’ that you are following?[/QUOTE]

I’m not following any guru. There is a local trainer here that I’d like to watch and maybe ride with. Another guy who has been recommended to me (by two people I haven’t seen ride) is about 3 hours away. So I’d really like to find someone to help me in person, but I’m not in the market for the proverbial Jim Jones, if you take my meaning.

The “wow, there’s a lot of backing up” idea comes from two sources.

1. Every western trainer I have known-- very good, ignorant and ugly-- does more backing up and lateral work (and sooner) than does just about any dressage trainer I have met.

2. I watched a Buck Brannaman clinic last weekend and saw a lot of that. The guy can explain what he’s looking for and how it relates to engaging the hind end. A thoughtful, open-minded dressagist can see that Brannaman has chosen a goal the dressagist has, too. But I never got to ask Brannaman about the physical strength piece.

I ask now because for the little guy I’m riding, it’s only fair to ask if I’m giving him the physical strength along with whatever “between the ears” education this approach provides. After all, if he can’t physically produce the right answer but knows it, I’m screwing him.

[monstrpony]

Well, if it’s enough of a walk (as it should be) it’ll contribute to building strength. But the walk/lateral/turning work is really aimed at the softness and suppleness. Backing is like anything else–you dont’ just get on one day and back your horse all over the property, unless you want him sore. But, ultimately, you want to be able to use backing, and pretty early on, not preserving it till some later time.

Remember that in it’s source, the conditioning of the horse in this style comes from using him–by the third or fourth ride (if you’re slow ), you should be opening/closing gates, sorting cattle, roping, dragging calves to branding–if you’re doing that kind of stuff right away, the conditioning/strength building takes care of itself. Since most of us don’t have that opportunity, build in some periods of nice, forward trot, some canter if your pony is up to that, lots of transitions. All of that bendy stuff can start to make some of them a little confined-feeling. That’s when a good forward trot can let some butterflies out.

Doing a lot of the bending/softening at the walk is as much for the riders who are learning how all of this stuff is supposed to feel, as it is for the horses. They figure it our pretty quickly, lol, we’re the ones who can be slow at it.

RE the timing, just remember that the horse learns from the release. Don’t forget to let go, even momentarily, when you get something you like. You can go right back to your contact/hold/feel if you’re looking for something further. Remember that thing about the thousand-and-one half halts? Same goes for release. Things will get better when you start to always be looking for a moment to do even a tiny release, instead of pulling the horse around and then thinking “oh, yeah, I’m supposed to give at some point”. Being slow on the release is the A-number-one thing that stands in the way of progress. As soon as the horse has the thought you want, before he ever starts to move his body, is not too soon to release–then just immediately go back and say “yes, but a little more, please.”

[Fillabeana]

So if I pick up my inside rein with the intention of moving the inside hind leg (and yeah, I’ll use leg in there, too), I really want to let go (or not) in reference to his foot, right? Usually, the horse will soften up front, too. But I don’t want to keep holding his face once he has given me that inside hind leg, right? If I were to do that, I’d defeat the purpose of the bit: controlling the body all the way back to the hind end, not just do some sh!t with the head and neck.

RE the timing, just remember that the horse learns from the release. Don’t forget to let go, even momentarily, when you get something you like. You can go right back to your contact/hold/feel if you’re looking for something further.

Exactly.
The ‘final answer’ is that you don’t release until the horse has given his foot, AND is soft to the bit. But if the horse hasn’t really done this before, you’re going to have to release when he gives you an honest try- wherever he gives- and then build on that.
And then…and this is probably the most important thing I took from my first Buck clinic…is that you don’t stop whatever exercise you’re up to, until the horse is mentally GOOD with what you are doing. And then go do something else. If you quit the exercise while the horse is still tight, bothered or otherwise not quite right, he thinks he’s supposed to perform a trick for you, even if it troubles him.

One thing still ringing through my head, is Buck saying, “You’ve got to get him to GIVE to you”. You have the horse following your lead, giving over (softly, in a good mental space) in a bunch of different ways in every ride, and the horse thinks of you as his leader.
And it ain’t just Buck- I had a fabulous teacher that I didn’t take enough advantage of, about 15 years ago. Short-listed for an Olympic Dressage team, rode 3* Long-Format events, steeplechased, foxhunted as a whip…her horses all ADORED her. She could recognize immediately when a horse she was working was trying something, and when it was just sassing her. Her rides had TONS of ‘asks’, the horse would ‘give’, and she would appreciate any teeny tiny try when she was building something new. Her horses would all whinny at her from the pasture when she’d come out of her house…and there was no shortage of 20-something sound horses (like, take 'em to a Prelim horse trials with a student sound) who had worked HARD for her in their earlier lives. That mental OK-ness, combined with using their bodies correctly, is priceless.

So if I pick up my inside rein with the intention of moving the inside hind leg (and yeah, I’ll use leg in there, too),

To get it really good, where when you pick up a rein and the horse softens his whole body/ribcage and follows that into a bend, you want to be able to get the HQ to move with the rein only, with the leg only, or with both. The horse should be soft off your leg, too, where you are putting your leg back but not squeezing or kicking or putting your spur on, giving laterally. You’ll notice that Buck doesn’t appear to be doing anything much with his legs…that’s because he’s developing a soft feel off his leg like he is off the bit.

“The ‘pull’ backwards on the slobber strap, asking the horse to back while standing on the ground, would not be strong enough to pull off a butterfly’s wing”…did you see that part? It isn’t that there is NOTHING on the rein, there is intent and softness. The leg should be the same- intention, and something the horse feels. But not a squish-the-bunny, not a spur unless the horse blows your leg off- at which point, you engage the leg/spur on the horse, and release when the horse gives the HQ over.

I tell you, riding is MUCH less physically demanding when you get your horse on the aids, on a feel, like that…

[BayRoan]

The backing does build strength, particularly in the loins, stifle and gaskin. Some western trainers use it as punishment, but used as essentially another gait that is practiced, it helps build tremendous strength that then allows the horse to carry himself properly going forward. Backing for any length of time, or on curves, or up hills, is quite taxing, and should be built up to.

Ages ago when I rode some outside horses, I had a horse brought in that was as long as a freight train and could not hold any sort of frame, particularly at a lope. I started backing him, in hand at first, to build up the strength in his loins. In about a month, he could hold himself together much better, just from the strength he had built, not from any lope-forever-jerk-on-the-face schooling.

Of course, to build the proper strength, the backing has to be done properly, with the back round and the horse engaged.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=mvp;7090827]

1. How much hind end strength are you really building with the walking work involving turning or lateral moves and all.of.the.cotton.pickin’ backing up you do?[/QUOTE]

While it develops strength as a side effect, that’s intended to solidify balance, not strength. Strength comes from adding effort to balance.

A horse should be able to walk backwards as cleanly and softly as it walks forward too.

[QUOTE=mvp;7090827]
2. Regarding what the snaffle bit is for: Is your first concern always having a light feel? (And this is one western trainers would like, while a (German) dressage trainer would consider the horse to be terribly behind the bit.) Or do you get light feel, but not stop the exercise/reward until you have moved the foot you intended?[/QUOTE]

If you try to blow through tension (or out wait tension) with the sole goal of performance…and that’s all moving a foot really is…you likely aren’t going to reward the little tries that preceed performance.

[QUOTE=mvp;7090827]
So if I pick up my inside rein with the intention of moving the inside hind leg (and yeah, I’ll use leg in there, too), I really want to let go (or not) in reference to his foot, right? Usually, the horse will soften up front, too. But I don’t want to keep holding his face once he has given me that inside hind leg, right? If I were to do that, I’d defeat the purpose of the bit: controlling the body all the way back to the hind end, not just do some sh!t with the head and neck.[/QUOTE]

If you have the goal of moving a foot and the request is blocked somewhere in the spine between your rein and his foot, you’re not ready to ask for a foot,

If you picture the spine as a channel for water thats filled with rocks in a young horse, you can either remove rocks to get water to flow or stuff more water down one end. Which way do you see loses more water? Which way thus requires more effort for the same net result?

Thus, if you ask for a foot and the channel isn’t clean, you’re skipping steps. If you do it anyway, you have a choice of either getting overbend if his shoulder is locked, ewe neck if his poll is locked, or releasing to preserve a headset and missing the point of your original request in the first place.

Skipping steps isn’t a good plan

[Fillabeana]

Thus, if you ask for a foot and the channel isn’t clean, you’re skipping steps.

This would be a place where Buck’s ‘flexions’ (that he is constantly telling his students to get good at) come in.
Basically, you are asking a horse that is standing still to take his head around to either side, poll above withers, ears level (NO tilting the head), and with the horse giving on a feel, so there is NO pulling on the bit. You are essentially ‘tucking the jaw’ a la Baucher here, releasing any brace at the poll by asking the horse to give sideways, and AFTER the horse has released at the poll, you may ask him to tuck his nose vertically. This way, you get a vertical flexion at the poll joint, and not the way-too-common flexion between the C2 and C3 vertebrae. Only when the horse can flex at the poll rather than C2/C3, can he elevate the base of his neck. Elevation of the base of the neck, combined with flexion of the loins, constitutes collection.
Skipping the step of having the poll joint released might get you a tucked nose, and you can engage the hindquarters all you like, but you won’t get collection without the base of the neck raised. And you won’t get the base of the neck raised unless the poll joint is truly released.

It is REALLY hard to find a photo of a horse doing a lateral flexion properly…here’s one at the very top left of the page:
http://www.thinkinghorsemanship.com/buck_ldng.html
No pulling, no tilting, no bracing. Lovely.

Photos and demonstrations of how to do these flexions wrong abound, unfortunately.

How to confirm a brace at the poll rather than release one, starting with lateral flexion (or shall I say, lateral brace-and-tilting):
Photo 16 on this page shows a horse with a big brace at the poll, getting away from a pull on his mouth by ducking behind the bit.
We see in photo 5 and 8 how the previous ‘training’ to give sideways has been incorrect, rewarding a tilted face and confirming the brace at the poll joint. Not surprisingly, the ‘look how I fixed the horse’ photo # 17 shows a horse dumped on its forehand, evading the bit- confirmed in bracing at the poll:
http://www.naturalhorse.com/archive/volume2/issue1/article_11.php

The trainer still does this, not surprisingly:

step one…
http://www.google.com/imgres?client=firefox-a&hs=Ueh&sa=X&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&biw=988&bih=582&tbm=isch&tbnid=-EXllHZFZYUPEM:&imgrefurl=http://myhorse.com/blogs/horse-trainers/clinton-anderson/teach-your-horse-lateral-flexion-with-top-horse-trainer-clinton-anderson/&docid=-Z4ROwQKv-RSSM&imgurl=http://d387n7te6hkkmo.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/090602_Anderson_2848.jpg&w=500&h=419&ei=CvDvUZ7rLYLIqAGg_oBI&zoom=1&ved=1t:3588,r:43,s:0,i:218&iact=rc&page=4&tbnh=171&tbnw=204&start=36&ndsp=14&tx=103&ty=105

and step two…

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://downunderhorsemanship.com/Blog/image.axd%3Fpicture%3D2012%2F4%2F0424_Tip.jpg&imgrefurl=http://downunderhorsemanship.com/Blog/2012/04/default.aspx&h=315&w=450&sz=53&tbnid=D-ITPwi1iQScbM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=129&zoom=1&usg=__5Mue7HYa95iHpw7m9QBujV5xo4s=&docid=0giTGty2ysRWYM&sa=X&ei=y-3vUf_gFYfbrAG_gYHoBw&ved=0CEoQ9QEwCQ&dur=341
but it’s interesting to see ‘how to’ stepwise confirm a brace a the poll- it starts with lateral flexion.

[katarine]

That trainer is more adept at taking credit cards than taking a horse’s face around

[mvp]

Thank you all. This is a great help.

I’ll try to speak to each of you, but right now the stuff aktill says and the particular horse I’m riding brings up an issue that I should clarify and ask about.

[QUOTE=aktill;7091657]

If you have the goal of moving a foot and the request is blocked somewhere in the spine between your rein and his foot, you’re not ready to ask for a foot,[/QUOTE]

Here’s the thing: I want/need to teach this horse two apparently different things with the bit:

1. To be so light that I can move the hind foot on that side by raising my hand a bit. This relates to bending as a large goal and making tiny corrections with my hand as I ultimately transfer almost all of that signal to my seat and leg.

2. To stretch his nose down to the ground. I need this if he’s ever going to do a western dressage test. But the poor badly-built sucker needs this to survive and be rideable at all. He is built to invert his neck and pull himself along. He had done that his whole life, even loose. If I want to change all that, he needs to go to the gym and substantially remodel his neck and loosen up his shoulders. The only way I know to get that done is to ride him “long and low”; we do some other, weirder stuff for the shoulders.

So! I can’t just release my hand when his nose is tucked and he feels soft.*** At least for part of our ride, I also have to teach him to follow the bit down. I can’t let go (or rather, not let go but praise him and make my contact feel really good) until his nose is really low.

All this means that I’m very, very thoughtful about the feel in his mouth vs. his poll and neck vs. something happening with his feet at the moment I choose to let go/reward him.

So far, it is working. That means he is getting smoother and lighter when I’m moving his feet around in all kinds of patterns. But when I ask him to trot out and cruise around with his head down, he knows that’s what I mean, too. I’ll have to pay attention to how I ride him and then see if I can explain how this apparent contradiction is clear to the horse.

*** A couple of months ago, I had been doing what I saw the non-dressagist western people doing. Horse was light, using his body well and his nose was tucked. But there was no formal “long and low” phase at all. I noticed this horse couldn’t do some stuff well, and his neck still looked bad. Would that come if I just kept going? I took a “state of the union” lesson from a dressage pro friend. She told me I was asking him for things that I should bother with for 3 years. We went back to moving his front feet out of the way (under saddle and going forward. That’s a long story.) And then I was to ride him long and low. The horse honest-to-God could not halt without raising his head. Tucked nose or not, he was truly weak. My dressage buddy and the horse both handed my a$$ to me that day.

So I went to work on filling in that long-n-low hole in this horse’s education/conditioning. He’s appreciably stronger now. Maybe some day he’ll have a canter transition. Sigh.

[monstrpony]

How old is he? Re-training can take a lot longer than doing it right the first time, especially when there are PT aspects that you have to address.

As a person firmly perched on the fence between the Vaquero tradition and the dressage arena, I’ve contemplated the contact/accepting bit/accepting contact/release-as-reward connundrum for a good long while. What my horses finally convinced me of is that there is a continuum, and the rider, who understands where the horse is in its education and development, can define where along that continuum you wish to ride.

As I interpret the long and low stretch, you ask the horse to go forward to take a feel/contact, and then give forward, asking the horse to follow the feel/contact. Now, think of it this way: you are asking for a gentle forward, you release when the horse goes nicely forward; if the forward is correct (balanced and not rushed) the horse uses the forward to stretch his topline (his reward), which re-creates the contact. We both know it doesn’t work if the horse isn’t going forward correctly, because if he’s depending on the contact for balance, he will fall on his face, whether you do is as a “give” or as a “release”. If he’s carrying tension in his forehand, he’ll end up rushing instead of stretching.

When the horse is just starting out, and you begin to introduce lateral flexes, or moving the haunches, etc., you release completely to reward the horse, to make it clear that he’s given the right answer (comfort is his reward). You’re not asking anything here that threatens his balance terribly; you’re not running him forward into your hand and then suddenly dropping him on his face. As he becomes more educated, the release can become more instantaneous, more momentary. The contact you have becomes more conversational–the horse is holding it in a supple, balanced, self-sufficient way, and because he’s completely comfortable, he doesn’t mind the contact–he accepts it. Further, he’s educated enough to recognize quicker, smaller releases, so the contact becomes more consistent. It’s your choice, based perhaps on your riding style, whether you make that contact even lighter, to where it’s just a feel and very little physical (as in a bridle horse), or whether you make it a more positive contact (as a dressage horse).

I’ve got an older horse, a very sensitive fellow who spent a good amount of time in circumstances where he was not handled completely fairly. He has a lot of issues in his poll and neck and shoulders. There are times he looks lame as a goat, but I’m convinced that much of it is demons in his mind reflected as braces in his body. The exorcism takes a long time, and the tolerance for dishonesty on my part (“I think this is sort of correct. Maybe? No. No, it’s not …”) is much smaller than with a green-bean blank slate.

I may be the only person on the planet that feels this way, but I do not see the inconsistencies. I see differences–the Vaquero folks will let their horses bop along at a good clip on a completely loose rein, saying it frees their minds. The will let the contact come and go, because a working horse must be self-sufficient in its balance. They accept that the contact that recycles the energy from the back end can be through a feel, and does not need to be a physical, positive contact. But the idea of recycling the energy is still there. If you accept the conversational contact of classical dressage (as opposed to water-skiing on a freight train), it is only a variation, not something completely different. If you watch Buck Brannaman ride, and hold that image in your mind, instead of the legions of so-called natural horsemanship beginners and the quick-fix marketeers, you can start to see that the Vaquero tradition and good classical dressage are variations on a continuum, not inconsistent contrasts.

[aktill]

[QUOTE=mvp;7092326]

1. To be so light that I can move the hind foot on that side by raising my hand a bit. This relates to bending as a large goal and making tiny corrections with my hand as I ultimately transfer almost all of that signal to my seat and leg.[/QUOTE]

You might be missing the intent of connecting the rein to the hind foot.

You don’t do this so that you can dictate where the hind foot reaches at every step, you do this to check if there are any braces between the hind foot and the rein.

After you “clear the channel”, you ride from your body, not your rein.

What you’re describing is steering from the rein by connecting to the hind foot, but that’s not the intent of what I described.

@mvp;7092326

If I want to change all that, he needs to go to the gym and substantially remodel his neck

All he needs to do with his neck at this point is to learn to release the topline.

Later, when you’re working on engagement and collection, he’ll learn to engage the muscles to lift the base of his neck, but that’s currently impossible since the muscles which clamp the topline (much stronger) are antagonists to this action.

@mvp;7092326

and loosen up his shoulders.

Which you start by backing up. If you can’t back without him going ewe necked and bracing, he’s locked in his poll. Work on suppling and releasing the poll, you don’t have enough lateral flexion.

If you can’t back without him overbending the neck, he’s locking in his shoulders. If you worry about the overbending without getting him to release his shoulders, you’ll never get proper form.

I’ve taught a number of dressage riders to finally back up correctly by getting them to completely ignore what the head is doing until they’re at least backing in proper form. Overbending goes away when the brace in the shoulder goes away. If you’re so terrified about vertical flexion form that you stop asking the backup question, the horse learns to think that it can answer every rein question by doing something with their head and neck.

Lastly, if you can’t back up smoothly without involving the rein at all he’s not hooked to your seat.

…and that’s why we back a lot lol

@mvp;7092326

The only way I know to get that done is to ride him “long and low”; we do some other, weirder stuff for the shoulders.

Long and low isn’t a bit exercise, it’s a seat and back exercise. You don’t get long and low by reaching down for the bit, because that just dumps them onto the forehand. You get long and low by releasing the back (again, releasing the topline) and MAYBE defining how low they go with the bit. Even then, you really can ride this without the bit entering the picture.

@mvp;7092326

Maybe some day he’ll have a canter transition. Sigh.

As the owner of a gaited horse with a tricky canter, I can attest that the transition is a balance question NOT a strength question. The transition is a function of balance, holding it for duration is a function of endurance, and suspension is a question of strength.

[potteryshop]

My take about long and low regarding western riding - no pro here, just working on experience.

The outside rein keeps the contact as you let it out. You want to think inside leg to outside rein actively. You may, and probably will, need to use the inside rein as an opening rein occasionally to remind your horse that you are asking him to stay softly on the outside rein as you slowly ask for the stretch. (You don’t want him to bend to the outside because he feels only the contact with the outside rein.) When he loses his balance he will probably either trip and fall on his nose, which no horse wants to do, or throw his head up. That is when you re-gather the reins and start again. The object is to encourage him to stay balanced longer and longer with his neck long and low. No, it doesn’t happen in one session.

So you have the stretch. Now you need the collect part. Keeping that light contact with the outside rein, increase the contact with the inside so that he is slightly bent to the inside (and inside rein is firmer than outside). At the same time activate your outside leg more to achieve outside leg to inside rein, the beginning step of collection. Bonus points of you are able to then lightly capture the outside wall to get the horse to lift back and withers instead of coming off the bit.

Once you can get both, try to stretch down for several (10?) strides then collect up for several, then straighten collected. This lengthens then shortens the muscles, building strength.

The goal, of course, is for the horse to be so soft that a slight touch will lift the back and withers, and the horse becomes a collected ballerina, in a balanced frame using your legs with only occasional reminders from your hand. A lofty goal to which I constantly aspire - but haven’t gotten there yet for more more than a few minutes.

And about the backing - QH trainers can get away with a lot more backing on their laid-back young horses than WB and TB trainers can on their more slow developing, more excitable young horses. Backing combined with turns on the haunches and roll-backs can do a lot to put a horse on his hind end. Everything in moderation.

Whew, an long essay for me!

[monstrpony]

[QUOTE=aktill;7092447]
I can attest that the transition is a balance question NOT a strength question. The transition is a function of balance, holding it for duration is a function of endurance, and suspension is a question of strength.[/QUOTE]

Thank you.

[aktill]

@potteryshop;7092636

And about the backing - QH trainers can get away with a lot more backing on their laid-back young horses than WB and TB trainers can on their more slow developing, more excitable young horses. Backing combined with turns on the haunches and roll-backs can do a lot to put a horse on his hind end. Everything in moderation.

As the owner of a hot non-QH horse boarded at a dressage facility, I’d actually say the fact that they’re “amping-up” exercises is a reason to do them MORE…so the horse learns to manage that energy. An excitable horse needs MORE exposure, not less, but in a controlled way.

Otherwise you end up with situations like a mare at our barn who “needs” to have the bridle unbuckled completely to be bridled since she responds violently to having her ears handled. That avoids the blowup, sure, but doesn’t solve the problem.

“Dressage”'s tendency to leave backup to 2nd or 3rd level due to a fear of compromising forward (?!) is the reason that (even at GP) most dressage horses have a very sad backup.

[Fillabeana]

Long and low isn’t a bit exercise, it’s a seat and back exercise. You don’t get long and low by reaching down for the bit, because that just dumps them onto the forehand. You get long and low by releasing the back (again, releasing the topline) and MAYBE defining how low they go with the bit. Even then, you really can ride this without the bit entering the picture.

and

and suspension is a question of strength.

I just revisited an article in Eclectic Horseman magazine written by Dr. Deb Bennett titled “How HOrses Work: Installment 6 Raising the Base of the Neck”, which included “Showing the horse the way to the ground”.

By the way, this ‘How Horses Work’ series was a huge…no HUGE help to me in understanding both how Dressage should be, and understanding what in the heck Buck was doing. You can go online and get back issues electronically sent for $2 per issue, and it would probably get your brain a-ticking.

Anyway, two things about ‘showing the horse the way to the ground’…

First, I asked Buck specifically about it, noting that I hadn’t seen him ever ask this of a horse he was riding. He told me that first, it was not something he would ever do when he was asking the horse to do something athletic- it would be as a stretch, if you will. Second, he said he DOESN’T do it. But next, he got a thoughtful look on his face and told me to go ask Dr. Deb where ‘showing the horse to the ground’ was going to be helpful, because ‘She’s a genius’. (Hard to ask questions of, because you can get your, um, hair blown back by the force of her personality, but well worth addressing, b/c I think she IS genius about how she can put this stuff together so you can understand it.)

Second, I realised that this ‘long and low’ is about having the horse RAISE the base of his neck, which as Adam describes involves releasing the topline (thank you Aktill). Dr. Deb says that the horse needs no more than a springy trot, no need to drop the nose way down.

If you are so busy sending the horse’s nose to the ground that you lose the raising of the base of the neck (which I can’t really see in illustrations/photos yet, but I can feel when mounted), and so you lose the suspension of the trot, you aren’t helping.

And I realised that as I long-trot along, and I’m giving the horse a break by not asking him to hold a soft feel all the time, that I’m asking the horse to raise the base of his neck and have some suspension to his trot. I AM using this exercise. Just not so much with the ‘pull the reins out of my hand’ and dump weight on the forehand. Because having the weight dump on the forehand does not feel good. If you keep that suspension in the trot, you will as Adam describes, build strength.

This last Buck clinic I rode in, I rode my OTTB in the last session because my young horse had had enough in three days.
I FINALLY got it so my horse was giving, and holding a soft feel in leg yield, backing circles and such. Best ride I’ve had on him yet.

But that ‘conversational contact’, that holding a soft feel, releasing a positive, engage-the-rein-until-the-horse-gives-to-you into a draping rein or a ‘contact’ (NOT a pull on the reins), they can’t DO that until they’ve built strength. The best you can do with that horse that is so dumped on his forehand, is release completely and/or don’t ask him to carry a soft feel but for a few steps at a time, when his topline is in release.

Yeah, that ‘contact’ is a bugger. You should not be pulling the horse’s lips back, you should not be even denting his tongue with your reins. 'Tain’t easy, and it’s a fake if the horse is holding a brace in his neck, and it’s WAY too easy, especially if you’ve been taught to have a positive, ‘light’ pull on the reins, to think things are dandy when the horse simply keeps his brace and bends at C2/C3.

Long story short, if you’re pulling his lips back, and he’s not releasing to that pull, you are building a brace somewhere. And that does nothing for helping a horse carry himself correctly, build strength in the right muscles, or helping him mentally:

http://dressagerider.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/otside_rein.png?w=300&h=195

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.germandressagehorses.com/images/hp.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.germandressagehorses.com/&h=811&w=1097&sz=324&tbnid=Qp7Jp9OB-8WifM:&tbnh=89&tbnw=120&zoom=1&usg=__c2o4sDuWyJtOm8bXo9K_r6yNnP4=&docid=ad5NZQf0rqaM6M&sa=X&ei=NVTxUeqRObPyyAGR3IGABw&ved=0CGEQ9QEwDw&dur=634

Both horses are bending at c2/c3. The first, you can’t see if he’s on his forehand, but the second obviously is- note that his hind end is in the air and his front hasn’t left the ground.