eventing dressage scores

[tle]

I’m posting this mostly as a vent and a reminder to myself that I will not get discouraged and I will have fun at my upcoming event (first in 11 years). But it’s hard when you see things like “we had a ‘respectable dressage test scoring a 30.7 to sit tied for 7th’” or reading that Sarah and Ginny won their prelim dressage with an 18.9! WTFruitbat!!! 7th place and you have a 30.7??? 18.9 is actually a score one CAN attain??? Who the hell are these people and what are they doing in my sport? LOL Seriously, I’ve never won an event and the best recognized dressage score I ever had with Char was a 39.5 at a Training 3-day in 2003 (the ONLY time we ever broke 40). Granted, I know more now and think (HOPE) I ride better but still… YIKES!!

I will have fun. I will not stress about scores. I will aim to complete the event. I will have fun. I will not stress about scores. I will aim to complete the event.

[SomedaySoon]

I know the feeling–we just broke 40 for the first time. At Intro… Good luck and have fun!

[beowulf]

You’ll get there… remember, you’re not showing against Ginny! It depends on the division and who is in it… An 18.9 in Prelim… well… I’d love to see that test and I do wonder if there wasn’t some Big-Name-Horse in play… but she is a nice horse. Most divisions here, the avg in N is ~25-30, avg in T is 30-40. Some prelims go to the 50s.

My first year in eventing I think I was in the 40s and 50s. Lowest I’ve ever gotten is 29… most times I don’t think I get lower than 31… You’ll have your good days and your bad, but chin up - it’s not really about the percentage score, it’s about the ride and how much fun you had.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=tle;8308443]
I’m posting this mostly as a vent and a reminder to myself that I will not get discouraged and I will have fun at my upcoming event (first in 11 years). But it’s hard when you see things like “we had a ‘respectable dressage test scoring a 30.7 to sit tied for 7th’” or reading that Sarah and Ginny won their prelim dressage with an 18.9! WTFruitbat!!! 7th place and you have a 30.7??? 18.9 is actually a score one CAN attain??? Who the hell are these people and what are they doing in my sport? LOL Seriously, I’ve never won an event and the best recognized dressage score I ever had with Char was a 39.5 at a Training 3-day in 2003 (the ONLY time we ever broke 40). Granted, I know more now and think (HOPE) I ride better but still… YIKES!!

I will have fun. I will not stress about scores. I will aim to complete the event. I will have fun. I will not stress about scores. I will aim to complete the event.
;)[/QUOTE]
Good luck remembering that as you get ready in warm up :lol:

I am with you 100%. The best score I ever did was just this year at CHatt Hills N with a 25.8. And that was still second for the first place was something like 20. It may have been a flunk for we typically are in the mid to upper 30s. Most times I try not to pay any attention to scores or position at the show for it can effect my presence. What I look for is did we do better this time then last when compared to my own sense of growth. I’ve had rides that I loved, but the judge didn’t and scores that surprised me for I hated the ride. Dressage, as much as I enjoy it and appreciate its importance in training, is to relative for my tastes in competition. That someone could invent Eventing Dressage that was more objective and still showed the key aspects needed, suppleness, submission, and through-ness without some judge unconsciously biased for some reason or another.

[dotneko]

A 35% at a novice event is equivalent to a 65% at a training level dressage test.
That is quite a respectable score. In the teens is in the 80% range. Very rarified atmosphere with scores like that.

[tle]

[QUOTE=JP60;8308465]
Good luck remembering that as you get ready in warm up :lol: [/QUOTE]

Definitely. Last “big” event we went to was Octoberfest at KHP last fall. Dressage warmup was awful enough to get a “uh… have ‘fun’ on XC” from Cathy Weischhoff after watching our warmup… or rather, after having to stay away from crazy mare doing her OMG EVERYTHING IS SCARY routine as a warmup. :lol:

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=JP60;8308465]
I’ve had rides that I loved, but the judge didn’t and scores that surprised me for I hated the ride. Dressage, as much as I enjoy it and appreciate its importance in training, is to relative for my tastes in competition. That someone could invent Eventing Dressage that was more objective and still showed the key aspects needed, suppleness, submission, and through-ness without some judge unconsciously biased for some reason or another.[/QUOTE]

I’m with you… one of my best rides to date was at King Oak in Area I… My horse gave me 110%… he just felt so with me - supple, soft - he was attentive and relaxed with no tension… I went down the centerline and felt he was just “there” and it made my accuracy and confidence skyrocket. When I halted and saluted I had my trainer (who was not one to give compliments) nearly crawl over the picket fence in shock, telling me that the ride was AWESOME, the best she had seen us do and the best she had seen all day from all of her students… even barn-mates I wasn’t really well acquainted with came over and told me they had heard I rode an amazing test… Trainer warned me the judge had a reputation for not liking TBs and said my test might reflect it…

Well I got the score back and it was a flipping 48!!! That was a HARSH test. IIRC, horse got a 4 for movement… and he was not a bad mover… We consistently scored in the 30s at that level on a bad day… and this was a 48 on a brilliant day… I was very sad!! But we had an amazing XC and SJ and even though we didn’t place in the ribbons I know that was one of our best rides.

[JP60]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8308475]
I’m with you… one of my best rides to date was at King Oak in Area I… My horse gave me 110%… he just felt so with me - supple, soft - he was attentive and relaxed with no tension… I went down the centerline and felt he was just “there” and it made my accuracy and confidence skyrocket. When I halted and saluted I had my trainer (who was not one to give compliments) nearly crawl over the picket fence in shock, telling me that the ride was AWESOME, the best she had seen us do and the best she had seen all day from all of her students… even barn-mates I wasn’t really well acquainted with came over and told me they had heard I rode an amazing test… Trainer warned me the judge had a reputation for not liking TBs and said my test might reflect it…

Well I got the score back and it was a flipping 48!!! That was a HARSH test. IIRC, horse got a 4 for movement… and he was not a bad mover… We consistently scored in the 30s at that level on a bad day… and this was a 48 on a brilliant day… I was very sad!! But we had an amazing XC and SJ and even though we didn’t place in the ribbons I know that was one of our best rides.[/QUOTE]
Those are the moments when someone asks, “how did you do?” I say, “it was a blue ribbon moment and that is all that matters. I love my horse”. Judges are humans and I don’t negate or disrespect the job they have, it is just the way the system has been set up. It blows me away that we compete in a sports the is 2/3 objective, but we spend most our money/time on the 1/3 subjective almost to the point where we need two horses for one sport.

[FatCatFarm]

Subjectivity is the devil! and that’s all I’ll say about that. Have had those rides too, where you think, “okay, that was pretty damn decent and not sucky; I liked it.” Then get your dressage score sheet and the judge obviously thought you did suck. Total buzzkill. I guess it’s why I love schooling shows. You can still have fun and actually place well, even win, on a less than spectacular dressage score if you ace show jumping and cross country.

[riderboy]

It’s common ground for sympathy and commiseration. But only for an hour. That’s the time limit for the pity party at our stalls.

[TBFAN]

My old coach has said something like this to me when I complain about my crummy dressage score - ‘yes, but the judge hasn’t seen how far you’ve come’.
And of course, that’s supposed to make me feel better but I always think I must have really sucked before!

[Badger]

It’s not a dressage show. Remember that. Go jump All The Things and have fun.

That said, if you put in the effort, the time, and the sweat, you CAN improve your dressage score. So if it’s important to you, dig in and work to improve.

In the end, it’s always a good day when you finish the event with a number and not a letter.

[ndirish07]

I just did Classique BN and was so looking forward to an awesome dressage test. We’d really worked hard. Then horsey was a bit distracted and unfocused and staying in the ring became the goal. I remember telling my friend that it was really okay because we only signed up to do the XC. Always remember that. We’re here for the jumps… and the beer. But mainly the jumps.

[dotneko]

[QUOTE=beowulf;8308475]
I’m with you… one of my best rides to date was at King Oak in Area I… My horse gave me 110%… he just felt so with me - supple, soft - he was attentive and relaxed with no tension… I went down the centerline and felt he was just “there” and it made my accuracy and confidence skyrocket. When I halted and saluted I had my trainer (who was not one to give compliments) nearly crawl over the picket fence in shock, telling me that the ride was AWESOME, the best she had seen us do and the best she had seen all day from all of her students… even barn-mates I wasn’t really well acquainted with came over and told me they had heard I rode an amazing test… Trainer warned me the judge had a reputation for not liking TBs and said my test might reflect it…

Well I got the score back and it was a flipping 48!!! That was a HARSH test. IIRC, horse got a 4 for movement… and he was not a bad mover… We consistently scored in the 30s at that level on a bad day… and this was a 48 on a brilliant day… I was very sad!! But we had an amazing XC and SJ and even though we didn’t place in the ribbons I know that was one of our best rides.[/QUOTE]

Just curious - what was the comment on the 4 for gaits? There clearly had to be something wrong. Either unlevelness or impure rhythm. Usually I am on a 4 for gaits with a lateral walk and canter. You can be as relaxed as a wet noodle but if the rhythm is not correct it really doesn’t matter.
We judges are human, but I really don’t know any judge that dislikes certain breeds to the point where scores would be affected. Usually a competitor or trainer complaining about bias is covering up faults in basics that need to be addressed. It is easier to say the judge doesn’t like Friesans when in fact, the dressage judge does not like horses going around with too short necks and inverted frames. The are scores of really nice Freisans who are trained correctly for dressage and then there are the others…
AND before it is said the Dot Demis hates freisans, I currently have 14 of them in my barn LOL.
Of course, this is just my two cents.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=dotneko;8309050]
Just curious - what was the comment on the 4 for gaits? There clearly had to be something wrong. Either unlevelness or impure rhythm. Usually I am on a 4 for gaits with a lateral walk and canter. You can be as relaxed as a wet noodle but if the rhythm is not correct it really doesn’t matter.
We judges are human, but I really don’t know any judge that dislikes certain breeds to the point where scores would be affected. Usually a competitor or trainer complaining about bias is covering up faults in basics that need to be addressed. It is easier to say the judge doesn’t like Friesans when in fact, the dressage judge does not like horses going around with too short necks and inverted frames. The are scores of really nice Freisans who are trained correctly for dressage and then there are the others…
AND before it is said the Dot Demis hates freisans, I currently have 14 of them in my barn LOL.
Of course, this is just my two cents.[/QUOTE]

This test was in 2007 or 2008, I’m trying to remember - I save my scores so I should have it somewhere so I can dredge it up. I completely agree with you that it’s easier to blame something else than own up to your shortcomings, but some judges DO let their bias impair the fairness of their tests. I have never had a problem with any other judge (not really saying I had a problem with this one) and I value all the comments they write on my test immensely. I use them to learn going forward, fix any mistakes that may have been invisible to my eye, and correct any other thing I can. It was just surprising, is all - especially since my trainer at the time (who was an UL rider you know) was convinced the test would land me in the high twenties/early thirties.

[KayBee]

Heh - I had one of my best scores for one of my worst tests at an unrecognized event this year. A 27 put me in… 8th or 9th place?

Different judges seem to take different scoring approaches (generous to strict). Eg, I know of one (at least) R judge that absolutely scores BN riders way more generously than N, and N more generous than T, etc. And… she is way more generous at BN than than most other generous judges I’ve encountered).

BUT… regardless, I have always felt that, even if my score didn’t accurately reflect an “objective measurement” of excellence/lack thereof (largely to the benefit of my ego, mind you), it ABSOLUTELY reflected my proper placement in the standings.

So, yes, I’ve gotten a 27 that I felt should have been something closer to a 40, a 27 that I felt should have been something closer to a 33, and other scores that I felt much more accurately reflected my performance…

Honestly, while I do look at the “number” aspect of my score, it’s the comments plus placement that really tell me the most. The worst is numbers + placement and no real comments… like the 27 test I did at that unrecognized venue. Made it so I couldn’t even guess what kind of crack they were smoking :lol:

[Ajierene]

[QUOTE=TBFAN;8308822]
My old coach has said something like this to me when I complain about my crummy dressage score - ‘yes, but the judge hasn’t seen how far you’ve come’.
And of course, that’s supposed to make me feel better but I always think I must have really sucked before![/QUOTE]

My trainer would remind us that the judge just sees a moment in time.

My mare used to get really good scores because she was so accurate. She wasn’t the best mover, but she would be damned if she put a foot wrong during a test. The only time she did anything bad was wringing her tail for a moment when I started to ask her to canter in the wrong spot.

[Foxtrot_s]

Our trainer pointed out that when two judges scores were so vastly different and the comments completely opposite each other, he said that they were sitting at different angles to the movement…(besides, it is a matter of sportsmanship that we take whatever is dished out to us and that next time there will be different judges.) Eventually, they will be getting better.

[eventer_mi]

Hey TLE - good to see you back in the game! I think we were both eventing at the same time way back when. I remember actually being able to win the event on a score of 40 with my fiery OTTB, just by going double-clear, and getting a score in the 30s was something we only dreamed about.

I, too, have taken a sabbatical from showing - I’m coming back now after two years away. I’m fully prepared to see winning scores in the low teens, now. My gelding, on a bad day, scores in the low30s - usually he’s in the low 20s. My best score to date was a 23, which put me in SIXTH PLACE out of 16. Sigh. We were still very competitive before the sabbatical, but now I’m betting that the scores that helped me win will now just put me in the middle of the pack.

Just repeat to yourself - it’s not about the ribbons, or we’d be doing pure dressage or hunters!