"Eventing" Dressage vs. "Real" Dressage

[Auburn]

First, I am an eventer and usually do “eventing” dressage.

When we moved down to Kentucky last year, I had a very difficult time finding a dressage instructor who would come to the barn where I boarded. So, I hauled down to Susan L. Harris in Louisville. Susan owns Spring Run Farm. She is currently going for her Gold Medal in dressage. She was able to help me with my dressage and jumping, which has put me in contention for a high placing in the USEA Area VIII.

A couple of months ago, I moved to a barn which is closer to my house. This put me an hour and a half away from Spring Run. With gas being so high, I stopped going down to take lessons from Susan.

About a month ago, Marci Von Lenzner Plopper decided that she was going to board at Summer Hill Training Center, which is where I am boarding. She is an amazing dressage instructor! She has worked very hard on improving my position, because she believes, “If you are riding correctly and not giving the horse so many conflicting aides, your horse will not be able do anything else but go correctly”. I have known this truth for years, but never had an instructor work so diligently to get me correct.

Now, because I am riding better and my horse has improved dramatically, Marci wants us to ride 1st level (real dressage) over the Winter, either at Paxton or the KHP. Because of stenosis in three vertabrae in my back, I haven’t done sitting trot for several years. (Another reason why I love eventing dressage is because you do not have to sit the trot.)

Do any of you have stenosis in your lumbar vertabrae? If so, how do you protect your back and still sit the trot? Do you do a lot of work without stirrups to develop a deeper seat? How many of you do Pilates or other core strengthening exercises?

Thanks, in advance, from this “eventing” dressage person. :yes:

[Kaeleer]

I am not a dressage person. I ride like an Orangutang on speed. I do, occasionally, compete at dressage, and I also event occasionally.

(I give you this information in case you would like, from the outset, to avoid reading it :))

I have damaged discs in my lower back and in my neck, and sitting trot can be a problem for me, as well. I have also dislocated my femur before and cracked my pelvis, so a loose hip is a bit of a problem (pins and plates limit “looseness”).

Anyway, I have recently started pilates and have discovered that I am now strengthening my core muscles enough to give me more stability, which is helping the sitting trot work. I highly recommend it. I can’t tell you how or why it works, but it does.

[purplnurpl]

well, if you don’t think you can sit due to medical issues then I think you can just post and take the error?

I usually do that with my babies. I often enter in 1-1 just to get a good time for showing and to get the kiddos in the arena.

[Kementari]

You might also be able to get a medical dispensation to post, if your doctor were to sign off on it…

[Auburn]

Thank you for the suggestions.

Does anyone know of a Pilates instructor near Dry Ridge, KY?

[Jealoushe]

I wasn’t aware there were two types of dressage…

[snoopy]

“eventing” dressage VS “real” dressage…Hmmmm.

I know many “event” horses that do far better then “dressage” horses at “real” dressage shows.

[Bobthehorse]

In eventing dressage you must sit after a certain level (Prelim? I dont know, I always sit).

Dressage is dressage, its simply a form of training. The only difference is that in eventing the top horses are not expected to perform at the same level as the top horses in pure dressage, since eventers have to be more versatile. But if you consider pure dressage “real” dressage, and eventing dressage not…then I guess “real” dressage doesnt start until you can do a piaffe or passage. Half pass, shoulder in, extensions, collections, flying changes, counter canter…all done in eventing dressage as well.

I dont see the difference until you hit GP. Same movements, same concepts, same skills.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=Bobthehorse;3579868]
In eventing dressage you must sit after a certain level (Prelim? I dont know, I always sit).

Dressage is dressage, its simply a form of training. The only difference is that in eventing the top horses are not expected to perform at the same level as the top horses in pure dressage, since eventers have to be more versatile. But if you consider pure dressage “real” dressage, and eventing dressage not…then I guess “real” dressage doesnt start until you can do a piaffe or passage. Half pass, shoulder in, extensions, collections, flying changes, counter canter…all done in eventing dressage as well.

I dont see the difference until you hit GP. Same movements, same concepts, same skills.[/QUOTE]

:yes:

[oldenmare]

Aaahhh - but as pointed out by the OP, the requirements differ between “eventing” dressage vs “standard” dressage (for lack of a better term - and I used “standard” as those tests run in what we can the “standard” 20mx60m ring, whereas eventing tests run in the “small” 20mx40m arena).

So, there are two different concepts of dressage test requirements… and then there are the gaited horse dressage tests - yet another set of requirements…

thus dressage is dressage is dressage - as far as “conceptual reality” - but requirements is another matter - at least for competition purposes…

[Janet]

@oldenmare;3579929

Aaahhh - but as pointed out by the OP, the requirements differ between “eventing” dressage vs “standard” dressage (for lack of a better term - and I used “standard” as those tests run in what we can the “standard” 20mx60m ring, whereas eventing tests run in the “small” 20mx40m arena).

So, there are two different concepts of dressage test requirements… and then there are the gaited horse dressage tests - yet another set of requirements.

Please tell me which “requirements” are different.

Arena size isn’t really a difference in requirements, since the lower level “straight” dressage tests can be done in a small arena, and the upper level “eventing” dressage tests require a standard arena.

Nor is sitting trot. Both give you the option of sitting or posting at the lower levels, and then require sitting at the higher levels.

[snoopy]

[QUOTE=Janet;3579946]
Please tell me which “requirements” are different.

Arena size isn’t really a difference in requirements, since the lower level “straight” dressage tests can be done in a small arena, and the upper level “eventing” dressage tests require a standard arena.

Nor is sitting trot. Bith give you the option of sitting or posting at the lower levels, and then require sitting at the higher levels.[/QUOTE]

agreed janet!!!

[oldenmare]

Oh - lets not be so bloody philosophical, people. Play the semantics game all you want - spin it however you want AWAY from the topic of the post, which is WHAT I was referring to…

Read each test in question by the OP - yes, the sitting trot (which is WHAT the OP stated she has issues with) is required at First Level in “standard” dressage whereas she can go to higher levels in “eventing” dressage still at rising trot…

Crikey - I’m glad I only post while I’m at work - and that I have a very full life outside of work to keep my mind better occupied than some, apparently. Then again, I actually do go ride!

[Auburn]

Oldenmare,

Thank you for understanding my point. It is the sitting trot that is my issue. You can post the trot through USEA Training level, but not at USDF first level.

I was using the “eventing” dressage, as tongue in cheek. My dressage instructor warmed me up for my Beginner Novice test at Jump Start. Before we started, she watched several of the other competitors rides. She was taken aback by some of BN rides. They were not up to the level of what she was used to seeing, even at the lower USDF levels. A friend of mine told her that it was “eventing” dressage. Thus, the terminology error.

I am sorry if I offended anyone in the eventing community. I know many UL riders, who put in lovely dressage tests (ie: Becky Holder). However, there are quite a few BN level rides that are just not up to the same standard as USDF training level rides. JMHO.

The purpose of this post was to find ways for a person with spinal canal stenosis in three of her lumbar vertabrae to do USDF first level, without killing her back. (Sorry to speak in 3rd person, but it makes for a better point.)

Back to the original topic : Are there any Pilates DVD’s that anyone can recommend for someone who has never done Pilates before?

[rabicon]

Little off course here, but I can’t understand how at c/t’s my horse and I can’t seem to break a 67 with the intro B test but at dressage only shows we get 71’s in intro B Are they just judging harder at c/t’s and events now or is it just judges differences and likes?

[Janet]

@oldenmare;3580111

Read each test in question by the OP - yes, the sitting trot (which is WHAT the OP stated she has issues with) is required at First Level in “standard” dressage whereas she can go to higher levels in “eventing” dressage still at rising trot…

Huh???
I guess your concept of the correspondence between the dressage levels and the eventing levels is different from mine!

The highest level you can post all the movements in eventing dressage is Training level, which is “lower” than First Level in straight dressage.

First Level in straight dressage, and Prelim in eventing dressage are roughly equivalent, and both require sitting trot.

[oldenmare]

Auburn

Please don’t apologize - sometimes posters just read and reply to something without reading it all the way through - I’ve been guilty of that as well… Just go forth ,ride and be happy. And looking into the special dispensation (mentioned earlier) is an excellent idea if you find that you aren’t able to sit… might also try some longe lessons - first to condition your horse to truly carry himself (which makes him more comfortable to sit) and then later on to condition you so that you know you are sitting properly. I’ve found longe lessons are the absolute bomb - and I have some issues as well from when I fractured my neck off a green horse 22 years ago (and that wonderful doctor told me to just “walk it off” - didn’t x-ray or anything).

Rabicon: Video each ride from now on and compare them if you feel that much difference in scoring vs the actual rides from each test. It may be the judge, it may be the venue, it may be the distractions of the day - without something substantial to compare each ride to, I doubt anyone could answer that question.

[oldenmare]

Janet

Read the OP - or don’t.

[Janet]

@oldenmare;3580465

Janet

Read the OP - or don’t.

I DID read the OP.

But the issue is EXACTLY the same whether she is talking about doing First Level in Straight Dressage, or Prelim in Eventing Dressage.

She defininitely has a medical issue to deal with, and I wish I had insights to give.

But it has NOTHING to do with the difference between Eventing Dressage and Straight Dressage. That is all I am trying to say.

[rabicon]

I have recorded all of them and watch them. Even my trainer watches them with me. We had one that we compared to my 71 score and I got a 63 on it and it was actually a BETTER ride than the 71 score. I guess maybe its the difference in judges. :yes: