Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

Ok… popping back into this thread. I took some time today after getting a message from a friend about this thread to review key facts, quotes, and other information in reports from EN, the Horse of Delaware Valley, and COTH that all unfolded over the period of September 16th to September 18th.

I created a monster post that essentially spliced the different statements and reports together, in chronological order, as the whole thing unfolded. But… sadly… after all my effort, the forum software took it, and sent it to “unapproved” limbo. Hopefully it will magically pop up as approved shortly. I’m too tired to recreate it and am still fighting a sinus issue (have been for days… the darn thing migrated to my ear and it’s miserable).

What I did learn after looking back through everything again, is that it is very clear that EN and Leslie Wiley did want the name change to this event to occur this year. One of the very first people they reached out to in order to get this ball rolling? Jenni Autry from USEF.

After looking at it all, from beginning to end, once again, it appears that USEF was very receptive to Leslie Wiley’s idea that the event name be changed. At some point USEA was looped in as well though… apparently in late June, and things slowed down.

Leslie was emailing and writing letters directly to Denis Glaccum and others with the PFEE board in August, and it was communicated very clearly to her at that time that Mr. Glaccum and Mr. Walker were unwilling to change the name of the event then.

But she persisted.

In September, for some reason USEA reverses itsrlf on this issue abc tried to come up with some sort of “halfway” point, and informed EN and Leslie they would remove the word “plantation” from their own media and marketing materials. It seems clear there was a deliberate effort to pacify and satisfy Leslie.

However… by September 14, Mr. Walker had had ENOUGH of the entire thing. And this was not a sudden decision on his part. Nope… this whole controversy had been swirling for months, multiple parties at the governing bodies were involved but the whole thing was Leslie Wiley’s brainchild from the beginning, per all indications, and she wanted the name change to happen on a tight timeline, and apparently “not this year” was just as unacceptable of a thought to her, as it possibly was to Denis Glaccum and Mr. Walker.

And as of August, everyone involved knew that there was a risk that this would blow up to into such a stinking mess, that the property owner would indeed cease to allow the event to continue on the property.

The question EVERYONE should be asking at present, is why were the people at both governing bodies engaging with Leslie Wiley to the extent they were? Rob Burke sent her a letter indicating that USEA would scrub the word “plantation“ from their own media and marketing materials. Why does the CEO of USEA need to send a letter like that to the Editor of an eventing related blog?

My sense, after rereading both the September 16th EN editorial, “The Problem with Plantation” and then the New York Times article that came out on September 21st, “Estate’s Racially Divisive Name Threatens Future of Premier Equestrian Event“…

Leslie Wiley was very very much involved in the writing of that NYT article.

By September 17th, even as this year’s competition was getting underway, a major portion of the eventing community was in shock, and a number of folks, including some with USEA were working hard to try and see if anything could be done to repair the relationship with the property owner, and see if the venue could be saved. I don’t know how long the writer at the NYT took to gather facts, do background research, reach out to people etc… but obviously Leslie Wiley spoke to them during the period of time between September 17, and September 21st. EN is treated as a full fledged sporting media outlet in that article, and Leslie is afforded a great deal of respect.

At the time, she knew darn well that many were heartbroken over the loss of the venue, that the loss would economically harm MANY people tied to eventing with business interests in close proximity to it… and that the whole reason the venue had been lost was that Mr. Walker had felt aggressively pressured and threatened with main steam media coverage, and as though his family name and property was being unfairly tied to a racial controversy and treated as though the name of it wac an actual racial slur…

And yet, she cooperated with this NYT article, which ran with a headline about this situation splashing out to a broad audience that Mr. Walker’s property was an “Estate” with a “Racially Divisive Name”

Honestly… I retract anything I said about EN possibly being unfairly scapegoated. Nope. They weren’t. This is ridiculous, and if USEF supported this witch-hunt at key steps along the way (and I think they did… it sure looks like that)…

Serious questions should be posed by someone as to whether or not Jenni Autry in particular violated any sort of conflict of interest rules as part of this mess.

EN got treated with respect and more credibility than their outlet should have been given from a journalistic perspective (they are a blog), and it will result in revenue for them and a boost to their profile.

Yuck, yuck, yuck.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@Wingstem

I’ve stood aside and read everything from the EN article and posts, to the NYT piece. I don’t have the stomach for Twitter though it sounds about as pleasant as a colonoscopy.

I only know the landowners family by reputation, and even the most horrible excuse for a journalist could have performed a quick Google search and discovered that the landowner and his family are credible, reputable people of good character. And people who perform good works and leave it at that. It is fairly evident that the journalist had an agenda - which is disturbing. And she would do well to not gloat about it on her FB page because her comments put a lie to the claims of innocence on the part of EN. As do the comments made by the owner.

Unfortunately, her and her employer’s crusade have not advanced efforts or outreach to attract more diverse participants. And by that I do not just mean minorities - I mean crossover participants from other horse sports (which are more racially diverse than eventing). In fact, quite the opposite. It has given eventing a black eye, and portrayed this sport in its participants in the most horrible light. This EN journalist made good on her threat to go to the mainstream media - who naturally and intentionally put an election year political spin on it.

So - I guess my problem is - who appointed this journalist or EN the official spokesperson for civil rights? I didn’t. I’m alarmed that any individual believes it is permissible to send threatening communications - basically engaging in extortion. You all should be concerned too - you may be next.

The problem with smear campaigns is that they are effective. The victim has no way to defend him or herself. Just like in the Salem witch trials - all anyone has to do is stand up and point and shout, " I SAW GOODE PROCTOR SPORTIN’ WITH THE DEVIL" And that is what happened here.

There are consequences to making false accusations, or attempting to extort people and destroy personal or professional reputations. Being a bully works for a while, because people are afraid of being the next person accused or targeted.

But eventually, someone comes along and pushes back. Bullies are always surprised to find themselves on the ground with a bloody nose - usually given by a person who stood up and said - enough.

The landowners political party isn’t relevant - except to people who are so blinded by hatred and partisanship that they believe any meme or lie told them. So the fact he leans right is enough to crucify him and his family. Will you be next? Your neighbor? The farmer down the road who lets the hunt through? Will you be the next Goode Proctor?

The fact is - EN decided to jump on a very recent political/activist bandwagon about a WORD. Words do have power, and so we of course should be careful how we use them. But in this debacle we appear to forget that it was EN who used words to intentionally harm innocent people. With threats - which they made good on.

In this case, while I understand the overtones of the word plantation - the fact is it is still a commonly used word to describe tree farming. When used in context - it is not racist nor intended to be. HOWEVER - I understand how it could be interpreted.

What concerns me more is that so many people are vitriolic about a WORD, but do not appear to care that a great many venues take place over the unmarked graves of human beings who spent their lives in bondage. Others have brought up Morven Park - the fact the name is pleasant does not mean your horses are not desecrating the graves of slaves. So I have to wonder exactly how concerned you are all about righting the wrongs of the past. There has been no effort, at many of these venues, to do any digs or identify the actual graves. But I can assure you that your xc course was not a hayfield for 200 years. But - it’s up to you if you feel ghoulish about this or not. I feel the same as if you were galloping over graves at Arlington Cemetery.

Anyway - From what I can tell the safest route for the landowner to take is to simply disengage. Personally, had I been subjected to the treatment and smear campaign - I would have made the same decision to protect myself and my family - which is, after all, a higher duty.

I’d also suggest that if the sport wants continued access to open space, you and your “journalists” comport yourself with a bit more dignity. The sport has made itself ridiculous - mostly through the actions of one or two “journalists” with an agenda. And again from what I can the sport has not furthered the cause of attracting a more diverse crowd into your ranks.

This is a superb post, and I am glad you decided to come onto the forum, and contribute it.

Truth should matter. Facts should matter. Ethics should matter. Leslie Wiley completely ignores fundamental ethical obligations of legitimate journalists, people got smeared, the sport lost a venue, folks who have built businesses in close proximity to that venue will suffer, and yet, as of Sept. 21st, she enjoyed respectful and flattering coverage in the NYT over her role in this mess.

[findthedistance]

@Marigold

This is a really important post, and very educational – thank you for the background. I wholeheartedly agree that that history should not be swept under the rug, and should be recognized and understood by those who are fortunate enough to use that land in its current iteration. I hope there are places at Morven that have this information available to visitors and again, thank you for your research.

For those who have not had the chance to explore the other side of Morven Park, the nonprofit that maintains the equestrian facilities and the massive community soccer fields also maintains the mansion and some historic outbuildings. There are guided tours (I have taken one) and the tours don’t skirt around the slave labor involved in the history of the property. The property also houses the regional equine hospital, a separate ambulatory equine veterinary service, and a therapeutic riding program, in addition to the (seriously, mindbogglingly large number of) soccer fields. As @Virginia Horse Mom stated, the organization is deeply tied to the community. Morven isn’t going anywhere, with or without eventing. I don’t know whether there are any plaques on the competition side of the grounds describing the history of the land, but the historical side of the grounds tells the story well, and competitors have in previous years gotten either free or discounted passes to the house tour as part of the competitor’s packet. The venue actively invites people to engage with the history of the property.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

And one more thought… because other’s brought it up several pages ago on this thread. This is NOT the first time Leslie Wiley has made herself into the subject of an editorial (?), essay (?) that was blasted out to the eventing community, then tripped over some ethical speed bumps, so to speak. That seemed to unfold while an intense issue of social concern was playing our nationally, and this attract a lot of attention and likely clicks for Eventing Nation…

The whole letter to a young equestrian post, that was a “metoo” thing, that she published on social media in 2017 I think. It was linked earlier on this thread. But essentially the essay/editorial/ whatever we should call it, was all about an underage eventer who first had an inappropriate relationship with her longtime coach, then I believe got mired down in self destructive behavior and psychological distress, and got in a car crash that apparently was partly a result of the emotional distress. Then shortly thereafter, at an eventing related social function of some kind, when she was over the age of 18 but still young, got “felt up” underneath the table by an upper level eventer she was sitting next too.

I might be recollecting the timing of the car crash incorrectly though. It might have happened AFTER her abusive encounter with both male eventing professionals. I can’t remember.

Anyway… someone else on this thread claimed that even though the post/essay/thought piece was written in an anonymous manner, as a letter to someone’s younger self, Leslie in fact stated later on during a podcast, that this was actually about her own life. And then people pushed her to identify who the predatory male eventing professionals actually were… but apparently she never did. Which I do understand… truly I do. People have a right to privacy and to not want to identify that sort of thing.

But at the same time… if privacy is what you want, you don’t publish essays about that sort of experience, which are widely shared, and then later reveal on a podcast that the essay is not about a hypothetical young rider but actually auto-biographical.

And most folks know on the forums… I’m an intense supporter of SafeSport and care about these issues. But something now seems truly off about this pattern of making herself into the story, and pushing stories like this out onto EventingNation, whole there simultaneously is an intense national interest swirling around these topics.

One last thing… there’s other background information about her that raises some questions. And it’s public as well. But I am going to leave it alone, and just state that it exists.

Something is truly odd with this story, LW’s role in it all, and I am inclined to believe the allegation at this point that very unprofessional and demanding communications were sent by her to the PFEE board at this point.

[FitzE]

Just a note: birtherism and that swill that Irish indentured servants were treated worse than enslaved people from Africa is not “politics” and everyone knows that.

Differing views on corporate tax cuts , universal healthcare, and deregulation of the banking system are politics. Let’s not conveniently conflate to the two. There is a HUGE difference there, especially with a birther and, interestingly, it speaks directly the subject matter here.

[ladyj79]

@FitzE

Just a note: birtherism and that swill that Irish indentured servants were treated worse than enslaved people from Africa is not “politics” and everyone knows that.

Differing views on corporate tax cuts , universal healthcare, and deregulation of the banking system are politics. Let’s not conveniently conflate to the two. There is a HUGE difference there, especially with a birther and, interestingly, it speaks directly the subject matter here.

But that really has nothing to do with anything here. It’s just more random smearing.

if there is a political litmus test for donating x to y these days, and you believe that philanthropist x has failed this test, then as was mentioned earlier in this thread, you shouldn’t want anything more from them.

Move your attentions to attracting the goods and services of persons you find socially acceptable to you.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@findthedistance

For those who have not had the chance to explore the other side of Morven Park, the nonprofit that maintains the equestrian facilities and the massive community soccer fields also maintains the mansion and some historic outbuildings. There are guided tours (I have taken one) and the tours don’t skirt around the slave labor involved in the history of the property. The property also houses the regional equine hospital, a separate ambulatory equine veterinary service, and a therapeutic riding program, in addition to the (seriously, mindbogglingly large number of) soccer fields. As @Virginia Horse Mom stated, the organization is deeply tied to the community. Morven isn’t going anywhere, with or without eventing. I don’t know whether there are any plaques on the competition side of the grounds describing the history of the land, but the historical side of the grounds tells the story well, and competitors have in previous years gotten either free or discounted passes to the house tour as part of the competitor’s packet. The venue actively invites people to engage with the history of the property.

Thanks for sharing this. I never brought Morven up because I wanted it canceled. I know full well what a wonderful community asset it is, and about the museum involved, etc.

But it seems insane to me for people involved in eventing to be freaking out over Plantation Field, and saying that venue is insensitive to black athletes, but say nothing about Morven.

For folks who don’t live in and around NoVa, but are following along, if you have a Facebook account, look up Morven Park International Equestrian Center. The cover photo is an image of the mansion, with a horse on the cross country course immediately in front of the mansion.

please refer to my earlier post, that was recently quoted, about some of the things that went on with slaves inside the mansion at Morven Park.

So why again does the USEA think they have an obligation to scrub the word “plantation” fro
their media and marketing materials, out of an abundance of sensitivity, literally the week before the Plantation Field International Event was scheduled to run…

but hey…

That cover image on Facebook pertaining to Morven Park? No worries. That’s not insensitive at all. And for anyone who doesn’t know, the Morven Park fall horse trials are scheduled for October 2-4.

If the sensitivity pertaining to Plantation Field was an urgent issue, because of the racial tensions and talk about systemic racism and a need for a reckoning, etc… if that was all so urgent that this needed to blow up right now…

why is no one worried about the image that is being widely circulated with respect to the event that is about to run at Morven?

I think LadyJ was onto something when she brought up George Orwell and 1984.

I wish I could share the image they are using for marketing on the forums, but I’m admittedly inept.

[FitzE]

@ladyj79

But that really has nothing to do with anything here. It’s just more random smearing.

if there is a political litmus test for donating x to y these days, and you believe that philanthropist x has failed this test, then as was mentioned earlier in this thread, you shouldn’t want anything more from them.

Move your attentions to attracting the goods and services of persons you find socially acceptable to you.

My complaint is with people brushing it off and saying it’s just politics. Look, I’ve said over and over that it would be great to have this be a real conversation, but after a few more pages of the pack braying “woke” at anyone who disagrees, I think it worth pointing out that someone gave us some first-hand info about one of the participants and no one even took a pause, just brushed it off as “politics”. I don’t think that’s honest and I said so.

My attentions have been the only ones so far focused on attracting better sources of goods and services. See my posts about (i) new generations stepping into their family wealth and land, (ii) attracting new LOs while keeping the old (in part by not mocking and belittling them now), and (iii) the poster IDing herself as wanting to be one of these new LO’s (and mentioning specifically that she’d change a problematic name b/c her value system values that action). Point to me where you or anyone else has done the same.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@FitzE

Just a note: birtherism and that swill that Irish indentured servants were treated worse than enslaved people from Africa is not “politics” and everyone knows that.

Differing views on corporate tax cuts , universal healthcare, and deregulation of the banking system are politics. Let’s not conveniently conflate to the two. There is a HUGE difference there, especially with a birther and, interestingly, it speaks directly the subject matter here.

DON’T. JUST DON’T

Remove yourself from this thread, and go to current events if this is what you want to do.

[FitzE]

@Virginia Horse Mom

DON’T. JUST DON’T

Remove yourself from this thread, and go to current events if this is what you want to do.

No. Just, no. I was not the first who brought it up and I won’t be bullied into thinking I’m not allowed here b/c of you. You have belittled, mocked, name called, and now you hit the all caps yelling. Try, just try, to be civil. You are really out of line.

[B_and_B]

@Virginia Horse Mom

Ok… popping back into this thread. I took some time today after getting a message from a friend about this thread to review key facts, quotes, and other information in reports from EN, the Horse of Delaware Valley, and COTH that all unfolded over the period of September 16th to September 18th.

I created a monster post that essentially spliced the different statements and reports together, in chronological order, as the whole thing unfolded. But… sadly… after all my effort, the forum software took it, and sent it to “unapproved” limbo. Hopefully it will magically pop up as approved shortly. I’m too tired to recreate it and am still fighting a sinus issue (have been for days… the darn thing migrated to my ear and it’s miserable).

What I did learn after looking back through everything again, is that it is very clear that EN and Leslie Wiley did want the name change to this event to occur this year. One of the very first people they reached out to in order to get this ball rolling? Jenni Autry from USEF.

After looking at it all, from beginning to end, once again, it appears that USEF was very receptive to Leslie Wiley’s idea that the event name be changed. At some point USEA was looped in as well though… apparently in late June, and things slowed down.

Leslie was emailing and writing letters directly to Denis Glaccum and others with the PFEE board in August, and it was communicated very clearly to her at that time that Mr. Glaccum and Mr. Walker were unwilling to change the name of the event then.

But she persisted.

In September, for some reason USEA reverses itsrlf on this issue abc tried to come up with some sort of “halfway” point, and informed EN and Leslie they would remove the word “plantation” from their own media and marketing materials. It seems clear there was a deliberate effort to pacify and satisfy Leslie.

However… by September 14, Mr. Walker had had ENOUGH of the entire thing. And this was not a sudden decision on his part. Nope… this whole controversy had been swirling for months, multiple parties at the governing bodies were involved but the whole thing was Leslie Wiley’s brainchild from the beginning, per all indications, and she wanted the name change to happen on a tight timeline, and apparently “not this year” was just as unacceptable of a thought to her, as it possibly was to Denis Glaccum and Mr. Walker.

And as of August, everyone involved knew that there was a risk that this would blow up to into such a stinking mess, that the property owner would indeed cease to allow the event to continue on the property.

The question EVERYONE should be asking at present, is why were the people at both governing bodies engaging with Leslie Wiley to the extent they were? Rob Burke sent her a letter indicating that USEA would scrub the word “plantation“ from their own media and marketing materials. Why does the CEO of USEA need to send a letter like that to the Editor of an eventing related blog?

My sense, after rereading both the September 16th EN editorial, “The Problem with Plantation” and then the New York Times article that came out on September 21st, “Estate’s Racially Divisive Name Threatens Future of Premier Equestrian Event“…

Leslie Wiley was very very much involved in the writing of that NYT article.

By September 17th, even as this year’s competition was getting underway, a major portion of the eventing community was in shock, and a number of folks, including some with USEA were working hard to try and see if anything could be done to repair the relationship with the property owner, and see if the venue could be saved. I don’t know how long the writer at the NYT took to gather facts, do background research, reach out to people etc… but obviously Leslie Wiley spoke to them during the period of time between September 17, and September 21st. EN is treated as a full fledged sporting media outlet in that article, and Leslie is afforded a great deal of respect.

At the time, she knew darn well that many were heartbroken over the loss of the venue, that the loss would economically harm MANY people tied to eventing with business interests in close proximity to it… and that the whole reason the venue had been lost was that Mr. Walker had felt aggressively pressured and threatened with main steam media coverage, and as though his family name and property was being unfairly tied to a racial controversy and treated as though the name of it wac an actual racial slur…

And yet, she cooperated with this NYT article, which ran with a headline about this situation splashing out to a broad audience that Mr. Walker’s property was an “Estate” with a “Racially Divisive Name”

Honestly… I retract anything I said about EN possibly being unfairly scapegoated. Nope. They weren’t. This is ridiculous, and if USEF supported this witch-hunt at key steps along the way (and I think they did… it sure looks like that)…

Serious questions should be posed by someone as to whether or not Jenni Autry in particular violated any sort of conflict of interest rules as part of this mess.

EN got treated with respect and more credibility than their outlet should have been given from a journalistic perspective (they are a blog), and it will result in revenue for them and a boost to their profile.

Yuck, yuck, yuck.

VHM, thank you for trawling back through it all. Let me guess, the Twitter crowd has you listed as ‘racist’ too?
Seriously, thanks for spending the time working laying out the timeline.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@FitzE

No. Just, no. I was not the first who brought it up and I won’t be bullied into thinking I’m not allowed here b/c of you. You have belittled, mocked, name called, and now you hit the all caps yelling. Try, just try, to be civil. You are really out of line.

You post was 100% about your opinion on known divisive political issues that I just quoted. There was not one bit of it that was about anything to do with the Plantation Field situation that is the topic of this thread.

But I apologize for yelling at you in all caps.

I will request politely this time… if you want to talk about birthirism, Irish people and the indentured servant/Irish slavery information that seems to continue to get shared across social media for reasons I personally don’t understand (and I’m part Irish…)

Please, go start a discussion in the appropriate forum with respect to those topics.

[ladyj79]

Yawn.
[TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 2”]
[TR]
[TD][B]"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.

		We are not like that.

		We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.

		Power is not a means; it is an end.

		One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

		The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me."[/B][/TD]
	[/TR]

[/TABLE]

By all means, again threaten one wealthy landowner with the mob so that other different wealthy people can occupy it.

highly recommend the appendix from Nineteen Eighty Four on Newspeak and the destruction of language as a mean of control.

Good times, good times.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@B and B

VHM, thank you for trawling back through it all. Let me guess, the Twitter crowd has you listed as ‘racist’ too?
Seriously, thanks for spending the time working laying out the timeline.

Yup. Apparently I’ve been labeled a racist. But that’s no big deal. I’m just a Virginia resident, who owns a few horses that are nicer than I deserve, and a mother. The label “racist” is not widely circulating on Twitter directly connected to my name, or a business that centers around my reputation.

But what about several upper level eventers, who have now been declared “racist” by the social media mob that has been unleashed as a result of this? Those guys (and it has now happened to several, as well as to Laine Ashker) have now had their names all directly tied to the word “racist” over and over and over. Their businesses… which often are called something like “John Doe Eventing” are now also tied to the label “racist.” What about sponsorships for them? Hopefully it’s mostly fine… but typically companies don’t want to sponsor athletes who are widely called “racist” across social media.

And let’s again review why the fevered social media mob is so upset with a few of these upper level eventers, and has now decided to label them racist…

Because a few of them with direct first hand knowledge of the facts and communications involved in this whole situation by virtue of their positions on various Boards (Boyd and Phillip are on the PFEE Board, and I believe Doug Payne is on the USEA Board of Governors as well)…

Well, these guys stood up and said this situation shouldn’t have happened the way it did, and the event shouldn’t have been lost, and they indicated that leadership with the governing bodies (USEF and USEA), and folks at Eventing Nation bore significant responsibility.

That’s a heck of a ridiculous reason to get labeled a “racist” all over Twitter.

[Virginia_Horse_Mom]

@ladyj79

Yawn.
[TABLE=“border: 0, cellpadding: 0, cellspacing: 2”]
[TR]
[TD][B]"Now I will tell you the answer to my question. It is this. The Party seeks power entirely for its own sake. We are not interested in the good of others; we are interested solely in power, pure power. What pure power means you will understand presently. We are different from the oligarchies of the past in that we know what we are doing. All the others, even those who resembled ourselves, were cowards and hypocrites. The German Nazis and the Russian Communists came very close to us in their methods, but they never had the courage to recognize their own motives. They pretended, perhaps they even believed, that they had seized power unwillingly and for a limited time, and that just around the corner there lay a paradise where human beings would be free and equal.

We are not like that.

We know that no one ever seizes power with the intention of relinquishing it.

Power is not a means; it is an end.

One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship.

The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power. Now you begin to understand me."[/B][/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

By all means, again threaten one wealthy landowner with the mob so that other different wealthy people can occupy it.

highly recommend the appendix from Nineteen Eighty Four on Newspeak and the destruction of language as a mean of control.

Good times, good times.

You are awesome. Thank you for being you.

[OverandOnward]

@Virginia Horse Mom

You post was 100% about your opinion on known divisive political issues that I just quoted. There was not one bit of it that was about anything to do with the Plantation Field situation that is the topic of this thread.

But I apologize for yelling at you in all caps.

I will request politely this time… if you want to talk about birthirism, Irish people and the indentured servant/Irish slavery information that seems to continue to get shared across social media for reasons I personally don’t understand (and I’m part Irish…)

Please, go start a discussion in the appropriate forum with respect to those topics.

That’s not true. Those positions (birther, Irish etc.) were attributed to Denis Glaccum’s FB page, earlier in the thread. Those points were used to bolster the feeling that Glaccum would never entertain a name change, based on his known worldviews generally.

Just to get that in there in case people closer to it aren’t online just now … if they are, they will explain it better.

[ladyj79]

Yep, he’s a monster. Destroy him, and seize what’s his!

Viva la France!

[ladyj79]

Again, maybe he wasn’t going to change it because he disagrees with the argument and the idea.

And it is his property.

We generally do still have the option not to share our property with people who despise us, or even with people who agree with us.

[OverandOnward]

@enjoytheride

I’m having trouble figuring out why some people feel that having a clearly defined contract is irrelevant to “moral obligations.”

If I’m the only boarding barn within hours of your home and we have a contract for 20 years and all of a sudden you go postal, I’m going to use that contract to evict you. There’s no moral obligation on my part to meeting your demands or thinking about the time we have invested.

The difference here is that “you” didn’t go postal. Someone in the media went postal - but behind the scenes.

You didn’t know about it. No one knew about it except a few insiders.

You showed up at the board barn for your regular ride. The barn owner tells you to get your horse and all of your stuff out, right now. No discussion. Twenty years of boarding means nothing.

Barn Owner goes back in the house and locks the door. You are left scrambling to figure out how to get everything loaded, and where to go with it.

Also you built your own barn/stall at the facility, having continued to put money into it and improve it for 20 years, but it has to be left behind. With no notice.

[ladyj79]

Here’s the thing re above: this is the real rub, we now see a contingent of people who do not believe private property owners have a right to their own property. If they cannot bully the private property into incremental control over his property, they will turn to the mob to destroy it and him by whatever means possible.

Funny, speaking of Ireland and atrocities, this isn’t a case of quit-rent. That’s a red herring.

But we should all be concerned about this mentality.

Tacitus had many great words criticizing the overreach of his own nation and class, his peers…he was a fairly good chronicler of how power corrupts.

one that always sticks in my mind is from his Germania,

“They have plundered the world, stripping naked the land in their hunger… they are driven by greed, if their enemy be rich; by ambition, if poor… They ravage, they slaughter, they seize by false pretenses, and all of this they hail as the construction of empire. And when in their wake nothing remains but a desert, they call that peace.”

funny how so little changes in human nature.