EN can though and I think it speaks volumes that they haven’t yet.
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I agree.
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One thing that rubs me the wrong way is that despite all the criticism and the seeming consensus that EN far overstepped the bounds of journalism, EN has not issued a sincere apology. Their public statement was one of those non-apologies like, “We’re sorry if other people can’t see that we are right and they are wrong.”
I think USEA and USEF should be putting heavy pressure on EN to issue a real apology and extend some olive branch to the event organizers and the landowner.
Is that unrealistic? Maybe so, but without some kind of truce, Walker will never open his land again because he knows EN’s anti-“Plantation” campaign will just rev back up.
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Agreed. The journalist who published the article in the NYT is the same journalist that published articles about George Morris, Jimmy Williams, etc. I’m not sure what her connection is to the equestrian community, but unless she is their designated pony-stories-writer, I would bet a fair amount that she has one and doesn’t need EN or anyone else tattletaling to find the story.
Bolding my own, snipped as indicated. I had exactly the same response as the bolded. Hopefully 2020 has just made me cynical, but when I look at this latest piece of information combined with the timing of their last press release vs. the emails (ex. they waited to say “EN cost us the lease!” until an hour after EN had posted their article, even though they knew days earlier that the lease was terminated), it is starting to look like they are being rather manipulative with their release of information. While continuing to insist they can’t release any more information that would round out the picture, because “bylaws”.
The one email that we do have (from Cuyler Walker to Rob Burk, copying Denis and Mary Coldren) was clearly released by Denis or someone with access to Denis’ Plantation Field email account (the email address of the account is listed above the bold black line). So either the board cannot legally do this, at which point they’ve already done something wrong by releasing the email that is out there, or the board can legally do this, but is choosing not to for……some reason. Either way, it doesn’t seem like they are playing by the rules as they have stated them.
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I’ll point out the Horse of Delaware Valley again at this stage of the thread.
We have two examples there of Leslie’s email style when speaking with others… the string with Jennifer Yoder, and the back and forth with Cynthia McGinnes.
I’ve been criticized by several on this thread got getting snarky at times, etc etc. And I do tend to get snarky, and sometimes rude, when advocating a position I believe in. It’s a fault of mine… I’ve tried resorting to other humor over the last few pages for fun, that’s more lighthearted :winkgrin:
So for those who didn’t like my tone… but still want to support Leslie Wylie and EN. I suggest you guys look at the two published e-mail exchanges she DID have with Jennifer Yoder and Cynthia McGinnes. And then think about the claim on the part of multiple PFEE board members, who say Leslie was rude and unprofessional when engaging with them, and it was so significant, that actually contributed greatly to this mess. That, plus the USEF and USEA deciding to support Leslie in this mess.
Personally, I see enough evidence at this point to convince me that the emails involved are likely pretty much consistent with what Amy Ruth Borun alleges.
But it’s ok if others want to see more evidence before deciding that EN and Leslie should take greater responsibility for this unfortunate situation.
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Agreed. Also, note that the EN mea culpa was written by John Thier… not Leslie.
I read the EN apology as mostly a matter of John Thier trying to be diplomatic, while having his employee’s back. While I found it a statement that didn’t work for me for a number of reasons (it got on my nerves… but I admittedly have a different general point of view from him on a lot of things, so that’s also just a matter of me being me, him being him, and there existing a fundamentally divide with respect to our personal perspectives on some key components of this whole controversy, issues related to diversity and inclusion in the sport and society, and what change we each think is going to be helpful to the sport and society). IF he was mostly trying to back up his employee with that apology, as she is currently taking a ton of heat about all this, on some level I do have some respect for that.
However, I don’t have any faith that there won’t be more destructive “pot stirring” by EN in the future, so long as Leslie Wiley has editorial power. I think there is a bit of a problematic track record building with respect to that now, and Leslie doesn’t seem to want to do much in the way of introspection, and make a public statement of any sort about what SHE could have done better.
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ok relax, it was a joke. But to take your comment seriously,
Says who? Randoms on the internet?
It all depends on their bylaws, but they can most likely vote on the board to make them public. If its in their best interest and they all are defending the board together I would think they could agree on a vote to show the emails.
Or maybe EN can release them…in an article. I bet that would get them some clicks!
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I think it is important to consider that people bring their own opinions and biases to their reading of these email exchanges, and that “tone” is a matter of opinion. I’ve already stated I didn’t find Leslie’s replies to Cynthia McGinnes to be rude or unprofessional. After taking a few days off from the thread, I did go back today and read the Jennifer Yoder/Leslie Wylie exchange. Personally, I was more offended by Jennifer’s suggestion that POC should just stay away from the event if they don’t like the name than I was by Leslie’s emails. I found them informal and (probably more important to your reading of them) unapologetic. In my opinion, unapologetic is not the same as rude. But to someone who thinks they are owed an apology, a response that doesn’t include one may appear to be rude.
So, going back to the original email exchanges with the PFEE board, consider that the board members started from a point of being upset by the topic being brought up. So an email that a neutral observer might not have found to be rude or unprofessional, might be interpreted as such by people with a strong opinion on the topic.
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I wasn’t going to reply again in this thread (much to read over, and think about) but agree with you.
I also found Cynthia’s emails tone deaf, personally. Racism exists in racing, and to suggest that “there’s no racism in MY sport” just goes to show you how snowblind some people are… It’s there. It doesn’t matter what YOU think. It matters what THEY experience.
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@Gardenhorse - that’s an interesting way of looking at that e-mail exchange. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on it. I appreciate that.
[B]EDITED TO ADD SOMETHING IMPORTANT:
I went back and read Jennifer Yoder’s email exchange as well. She actually didn’t specify that if POC were offended by the name of the event, they could just not attend. She actually just referred to people in general. I can understand why someone might read it the way that you did… but there is a different way of reading it as well, and that’s how I look at it. The fact is that the first people to claim that the name of this event was insensitive and offensive to anyone at USEF/USEA, or anyone with PFEE themselves? Well… those people are white. [/B]
I am someone who tends to offer apologies readily in real life (and on these forums occasionally ;)) when discussions and communications I’m involved in go sideways. I tend to approach the apology issue less from a personal perspective of whether or not I feel one is actually owed, and more from a personal belief in the old fashioned notion of ‘do unto others as you would have them do unto you.’
It’s about 50 50 in my life lately, as to whether or not that works out well in messy communications that have gone sideways. Sometimes people appreciate it, and say, “Thanks for acknowledging your role in the conflict, I guess I could have gone better too. Let’s keep on talking and try again.”
But other times, people listen to the apology I freely offer, and then basically say, “Yeah. You did screw up. And now that you’ve given an inch, I’m going to point out three or four more flaws of yours, and try and push my side of the conflict that much harder, and win this thing!”
And that’s typically the point at which I think to myself, “Oh well. Never mind. That person is a righteous PITA, a ‘win at all costs’ sort of human, and it’s best to avoid anymore intense discussion with them. They aren’t interested in discussions. They are too focused on winning arguments.”
I’m by no means perfect… I get into ‘win the argument!!! :mad:‘ mode at times for sure… but my opinion is that it’s good to own it when we all go there (I think everyone is guilty occasionally), and try and think about offering an apology for being a jerk, and regrouping. It can be quite productive I’ve found. 
And lead to a deeper understanding of important issues.
I think there is a difference between sticking to your guns and holding onto a sincere opinion when engaging in debate and discussion, and crossing over into that “GRRRR. I’m going to win the argument no matter what the cost!” mode of communication.
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After having read a significant proportion of this thread, as well as hundreds of comments on facebook…I don’t think that the details and the nitty gritty of what transpired here really matter. When this issue first came to light, my inclination was to roll my eyes at what seemed like a particularly over-the-top example of cancel culture directly impacting a beloved event. The more I’ve read and considered this, however, the more I am realizing that THIS type of issue is requiring us to consider and discuss something that is more significant than the feelings/wellbeing of any individual landowner, event organizer, rider, word, journalist, publication, or even any given sport (hell, sports, period.).
Sure, cancel culture can be inconvenient (this is the example that is relevant to our little world right now), but it is not as inconvenient as slavery was back then or as inconvenient as it is to be a POC today. If being inconvenienced by cancel culture is what it takes to bring this dialogue to the forefront, it is an inconvenience that I am eager to endure for the betterment of society.
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There is now a letter that people can sign demanding that Purina, sponsors of Boyd Martin and others, end their sponsorship because of the statements that Boyd, Payne, and others made on social media. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScSx0IZhAuribPoat5XkSQLrsOQv27F8YSeZ5cst9DZefgvOA/viewform?fbclid=IwAR3dk6kZ-bJdtnQwjOAs7uPbostyJBg2-Mp7jitej7o-44TFbt8gVYo-nbE&fbzx=-3697686599567261002
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I am unsure how much this will contribute to the conversation (I don’t think it’s been mentioned here), but one thing I wanted to put out there for consideration is that Leslie’s father was killed on Sept. 1 in a car accident and her mother was critically injured. I realize that the PF situation has been ongoing since June and that all sides are still accountable for their actions or inactions… But I can only imagine the impact of such a devastating event in the midst of everything else. I do not agree with how EN handled everything, but in my mind at least, this is a reminder that everyone in this situation is a human being dealing with their own complexities, tragedies, baggage. Nothing happens in a vacuum… there is always a larger, deeper story that many times we aren’t even aware of. Just food for thought.
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^ Wow. Didn’t know that. That’s awful.
I want to correct one thing I said just a few posts ago about her… she did comment on one of Boyd’s posts just over one day ago, but actually she didn’t delete it. I just wasn’t looking at the right post of Boyd’s earlier when I mentioned it (he has two up on social media). Folks who are curious can find her comment for themselves.
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Interesting. Was she the same Leslie Wylie involved in the botox/needle fatal car wreck? If so, I could see where this might conjure up some uncomfortable feelings, especially those surrounding privilege. I’m not sure how many people could spin their fear of needles into the reason for causing a major accident. I’m pretty sure no BIPOC person could pull that one off…
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Well… since you mentioned that, I will confirm it is the same person indeed.
She was involved in another emotionally traumatic car wreck as well, prior to the 2012 one. She wrote about it as part of a different EN essay.
ETA: The other car wreck was mentioned in the December 2017 “#MeToo: Letter to Myself As a Young Rider” essay. It also involved a car going out of control and crashing… and apparently was something that happened in the late 90’s according to what she wrote. The other wreck @alt_hunter mentioned was in 2012. People can Google about it. Legal issues related to it were concluded in 2013 to the best of my knowledge.
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I have no idea… I’d not heard anything about that. Just thought I’d mention what had very recently happened with her parents to maybe provide some context as to what she might be dealing with right now.
I never knew about that. Was not a Leslie Wylie fan before, but that is a whole heaping helping of hypocrisy if you are talking about privilege 
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This is a beyond ridiculous statement. It’s total BS. Its white guilt that’s causing the problem. Educate yourself and Google Candace Owens Heather Mac Donald and listen to the 48 minute Podcast. White sniwflakes are responsible for the current racism and it’s condescending for white people to think that they can decide what is and is not offensive to blacks. I fully support Boyd and Philip.
EN is history
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THIS!
Watch or listen to this podcast!
https://www.prageru.com/video/the-candace-owens-show-heather-mac-donald/
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