White sniwflakes are responsible for the current racism
LOL, congratulations, this is one of the stupidest things I’ve read in the past decade, and I teach college students of multiple races. crying emoji
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Candace Owens is the racist’s equivalent of a black friend, just saying.
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Incredible, isn’t it? You make such a profoundly telling and significant point imo.
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I read about it just now. I am sickened beyond words that she walked away with a legal pat on the wrist despite wrecking so much havoc. I doubt Leslie says her name.
As for her defense - I don’t think we could say ‘White privilege’ any louder than those circumstances and that result.
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All I really want to know is if anyone has proof that Leslie Wylie, or anyone else on this thread stating unequivocally that they KNOW for CERTAIN that the very existence of this name is offensive to POC, had a legitimate documented opinion on the name of this event before it became cool to have one.
Did any of you care about this before? I saw someone claim they did. Prove it. Show me the thread where you opened up this conversation.
If you never said anything and/or still attended the event, then you’re no better than the rest. Expressing an opinion only when you have the safety of numbers to do so isn’t about affecting change. It’s virtue signaling. Claiming you didn’t understand before but now you do and you need to speak for others/enlighten those who don’t have your wisdom - you really can’t see how condescending this is?
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You know what’s another bizarrely ironic twist about it? The car accident took place on “Jubal Early” Drive. It’s in Winchester, and there currently is a push underway in to rename that road. Which personally… I’m fine with (the renaming of that road). It’s a big topic of discussion in this area of Northern Virginia right now. Ironically.
Some folks actually still occasionally talk about that car accident in the area… I have some personal friends in law enforcement who live in the immediate area where it happened, and actually remember it. and some of the circumstances surrounding it all. The woman who passed away was a well liked 6th grade teacher, and quite attached to the local community, and it was a very very sad accident, and a VERY controversial plea deal back in 2012. They actually had to subpoena her doctors in Tennessee, and work with authorities there to make him come up to Virginia and provide information, as the doctor didn’t want to. But eventually they did get sufficient evidence, and put together a plea deal, and LW got a suspended 3 year prison sentence in 2013.
I can’t say for sure why she got the deal. Some of people might think it’s a matter of “white privilege,” some might think it was a fair deal after a really tragic accident… some might think it was an absolute BS deal and a slap on the wrist, and she should have served a more standard sentence for what she was charged with… just like a some economically less advantaged black people often do, when they are in a legal situation, and their only option is to rely upon a public defender… and the outcome simply isn’t as good of a plea deal as LW got in this situation.
I can’t really judge that. I wasn’t privy to all the underlying details… just know that this was a VERY big deal when it happened in this area.
But what I noticed during the course of this discussion, and find really notable about this, is that 5 years after that accident, she wrote the editorial piece “#MeToo: A Letter to myself as a Young Rider”… which included the following passage:
”I remember when your secret begins wearing you down. How when you drive to and from the barn, you start to fantasize about stepping on the gas and veering off the road. It feels like your only option for escape. One bitter winter night you finally do it, but it doesn’t go as planned. Your car is wrecked but you are uninjured, and so the nightmare continues.”
Think about that.
Regardless of what the facts are behind the 2012 car accident, the plea deal, and the author of this particular EN essay’s experience as a minor who was emotionally struggling after a terrible experience with a coach… all of which are very sad…
I think it was an ODD editorial decision for someone with LW’s personal record to write THAT passage as part of that essay. Really odd. The whole essay could have been written, and still been a powerful and moving story, without that particular paragraph.
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Glad the road will be renamed.
Too bad the family settled for so little money. I suspect the passengers who were injured and witnessed their mother’s death deserved a great deal more money too.
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It’s absolutely tragic. I have no words, and can’t and don’t even want to contemplate it.
And yes, renaming that road makes sense to me. That’s the sort of renaming situation, involving an actual Confederate General, that I can fully support, and think is an appropriate thing to pursue at this time. Something we can all find a sense of community unity about, and move forward together as a community and society in the process. A good symbolic gesture to pursue.
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Also google Thomas Sowell and Shelby Steele…
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Both are superb writers. Thomas Sowell in particular… he’s a BRILLIANT, remarkable man and writer.
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I am listening to Black Rednecks and White Liberals right now and can’t turn it off…
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What on EARTH. The justice system conclusively determined nearly a decade ago that this was a horrible accident, in which something tragic happened that was involuntary. You all claim that your problem with her actions as related to PF is objective and based on facts, but by dragging moments from her past where she had accidents into the public spotlight years later, as if they are in any way connected or in any way relevant, is cruel and reveals a very personal agenda.
If any among us are perfect, please speak up and teach us your ways. I’m certainly not. I understand discussing/critiquing a certain action that she took with intention that had an impact on our community, like this PF situation. I cannot for the life of me understand how discussing traumatic events from her personal life is AT ALL relevant.
I really don’t say this very often, but shame on you. This discussion has officially crossed the line from a debate about an issue to a targeted, mean-spirited, personal attack. I hope it gets shut down, and fast. I know we don’t always agree on everything, but I really thought we were better than this.
You are completely reversing the issue at hand. With respect to the justice system, the issue is (generally) not that white people “have it too good”, it’s that BIPOC people deserve to be treated just as humanely. The goal shouldn’t be to shoot every person who gets pulled over by police in a traffic stop – the goal should be to shoot NO PEOPLE who get pulled over by police in a traffic stop.
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I personally find the attacks on the land owner (calling him racist) to fit into the category of a mean- spirited personal attack. I can think of no other reason to publish some of what has been published about someone who simply owned the land that this event happened on.
I do not think the rules of the forum have anything against discussing past criminal charges.
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Did you see my last post? Because this very personal issue actually IS very relevant to this discussion in my opinion.
Leslie has now written two WIDELY viewed editorials for EN, in which she took a strong position on an issue that was of great interest to society in general… first MeToo, and now racial tension after the death of George Floyd and BLM protests, and society’s decision to rename many things, in the interest of progress, and to reflect the fact that we are not who we used to be as a society… we are more caring and inclusive and respectful of everyone now (hopefully).
I have no problem with editorializing like that during specific time periods when hot button issues are a major thing. But I do take note that in each of these situations… Leslie WAS the story. The first editorial essay was autobiographical in nature. The second (The Problem with Plantation) - it was about a controversy about an issue with a venue’s name, that she herself had raised to USEF/USEA, and pursued. This is a controversy that she herself, to a notable degree, created.
That crosses an ethical line, and calls into question her editorial and journalistic judgement. Her background and editorial judgement are fair game in this discussion.
People on the inside of the situation who are privy to emails and communications (the PFEE board members) indicate she was unprofessional and unreasonable, and it was a major factor in why this situation turned out as poorly as it did.
So looking closely at her background to determine whether or not those assertions possibly have merit? Also fair game.
Which brings us to the earlier editorial she penned. And the passage I highlighted. And looking at that passage, which she wrote and then published on EN, while knowing full well that she had personally been involved in a tragic accident only a few years prior, which actually involved her driving a truck off the road, stepping on an accelerator, and hitting another vehicle… and causing someone’s death?
It is fair to question her editorial judgement. To me… she exercised VERY poor judgement in her capacity as an editor and writer for EN when they published that MeToo essay back in December of 2017. They obviously were “striking while the iron was hot” … and the information she shared and story she penned at that time was very compelling and relevant. But someone with her history and personal legal record with respect to involuntary vehicular manslaughter? It’s very reckless to pen and publish an essay with the paragraph I quoted not but a few years following that accident and plea deal, don’t you think?
Yes… this is all VERY uncomfortable to look at closely. VERY. But there is an age old saying that seems relevant about people who live in glass houses throwing stones.
Be upset at those of us who are pointing it out if you wish. I can understand where you are coming from. But I think it needs to be pointed out. Why should Walker and Glaccum get closely scrutinized and discussed widely on the internet, and personally characterized over and over in very unflattering hurtful personal ways… but Leslie Wylie be off limits? That does not seem even handed at all.
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The rules are that you can’t speculate. The only matters discussed have been related to the facts of the actual criminal case and plea deal involved with it, as well as the words I quoted from an actual EN editorial essay, that LW wrote (she was tagged on the essay when it ran on the Horse Nation side of their platform, and others have said she confirmed she was the author during a podcast).
So no rules have been violated.
Leslie has deliberately chosen to pick up a pen, and write something that she and John Thier KNEW would result in great controversy, heightened emotion, and cause a great number of people to click on, and read EN. They also knew that Cuyler Walker was worried he would be unfairly viewed as a racist, and his family history perceived as racist, as part of this story, if they went forward with it. Because people often don’t look closely at details, or do background research, or read closely when it comes to matters like this. But EN plowed forward with it anyway, because they felt the underlying issue was important. And the internet is now aflame with very personal criticism of Mr. Walker, abd Denis, and a number of very ugly, mean spirited personal judgements of both of them.
I think taking a close look at the editorial decisions and past writing, of Leslie in particular, is also fair game now in the context of this discussion. Plenty of folks went on FB and looked at Denis’ FB page, and what was posted there over the course of months and years (his personal past), and made VERY critical personal conclusions about he and Mr. Walker’s character because of this background research and analysis they did. It is what it is. And once I, and many many others, looked closely at the background of the folks involved in this mess on the other side of it, Leslie’s background came right up. It’s VERY public information. And it’s fair to discuss it in the context of analyzing their editorial decisions and judgment, in my opinion.
Not pretty, not pleasant. But fair.
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I regret mentioning at all her recent tragic loss of her father. I had no idea about her own past car accident-- and relevant or not, I would never intentionally drag up such an event into this discussion.
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Poland is part of the EU so they have free rights to work in any other EU nation and the same workers rights as the people in that country. The difference lies in currency and wages and so for them working abroad makes sense as converts strongly back in Poland.
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I disagree that she herself created this controversy – they stated in the original article “We have heard from BIPOC equestrians that the name is problematic for them”. People here seem not to believe them, but honestly, it seems more and more reasonable that EN refuses to name the original people who brought this to their attention. I wouldn’t be bringing this firestorm down on those people for love nor money right now.
However, I acknowledge that EN’s role in this is part of the debate right now (although I think it’s a much bigger part of it than it should be), and therefore it is something I expect you and other posters to mention. You may even wish to critique her “editorial and journalistic judgement”, as you do above.
What I do not acknowledge as part of the debate is her personal background, up to and including her medical history, or childhood sexual abuse/harassment. How would any of those things in any way help us to determine “whether or not [assertions about the name of a horse event] have merit”? Critiquing someone’s professional work product is part of life, especially when that work product exists in the public sphere. This is way, WAY outside of that, and it’s violating and completely inappropriate.
That passage was describing suicidal thoughts brought on by traumatic and persistent harassment. Her accident was legally determined to be an involuntary result of a medical event behind the wheel. They both happened to take place in a car, but any similarity ends there.
I do not think, for the reasons I stated above. The two are not in any way related beyond the presence of a vehicle.
Just to clarify – I did not quote you because I do not think you intended this. I would not have foreseen this discussion taking the turn it did either.
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So it’s an exchange rate thing in certain respects?
Interesting.
The same is true to some degree in the US with undocumented labor, and people from Mexico who work within the US. They send an ASTONISHING amount of money that comes from their US employment back to relatives who are still living in Mexico every year. I think it is within the top 5 categories of financial inflow to the Me Ivan economy… money that comes from family members working in the US at any given time.
But when it comes to many undocumented Mexican people working here, employers pay them under the table and skip out on workman’s comp and other things required by law… this taking advantage of the undocumented person, while saving themself money. I think it’s an abusive and ugly thing, and falls into the general category of systemic racism, to a certain extent. Plenty of people who run equine sport related businesses consciously choose to use undocumented labor who come from a different country and are Latino/Hispanic (I don’t know the best thing to say… I’m just trying to get it right and be caring and respectful… uggh)… and they make that choice in order to save money. It’s an ugly abusive thing, in my opinion. People should get a fair competitive wage, and employers should follow applicable laws… no matter what anyone’s race or national origin or status is. Anything less is actually discriminatory, opportunistic and unethical.
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I have not once criticized her medical history, or her childhood history with respect to any of the experiences she has publicly written about and shared.
I am criticizing her decision as a writer and editor to publish the quoted paragraph in her December 2017 essay, in the wake of the car accident, resulting legal cases, and related facts that are part of that situation (all of which have been public knowledge for many years and discussed and reported on extensively in the local community in abc around Winchester).
My opinion is that particular paragraph is a very curious thing to write and publish after the other car wreck. I am not saying that it is untrue, nor am I criticizing anything to do with anyone experiencing extreme depression and feeling suicidal… those are VERY serious issues in and of themself, and I have a great deal of sympathy and compassion for anyone going through that. Statistics indicate something like 25% of the American public will experience clinical depression at some time in their life.
I am pointing out one particular narrow issue that is part of that paragraph that she wrote… and if you are familiar with the widely reported facts pertaining to the 2012 accident and legal case… it’s a stunning thing.
I don’t wish to argue with you, but do want to be crystal clear on what I am pointing out, and why.
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