Eventing Nation booted from covering Event in Unionville, PA

[Gardenhorse]

@pluvinel

Did none of you grow up with parental units whose defacto answer to a question, was one of two options:

• “No.... Case closed.”
• “But why? Because I am your mother/father. Case closed.”

If one is trying to make change, perhaps one should take one of the courses on Dale Carnegie's, "[U][I]Principles To Win Friends & Influence People[/I][/U]":

• Don't Criticize, Condemn or Complain
• Begin In A Friendly Manner
• The Only Way To Get The Best Of An Argument Is To Avoid It
• Show Respect For The Other Person's Opinion.
• Never Say, "You're Wrong."
• If You Are Wrong Admit It Quickly And Emphatically
• Try Honestly To See Things From The Other Person's Point Of View
• Be Sympathetic With The Other Person's Ideas And Desires
• Let The Other Person Save Face

Some tact and diplomacy would have gone a long way here.

And since I believe that dealing with people is a lot like dealing with horses, one does not pick a fight with a horse….unless you are SURE you can win the fight.

To get a difficult horse to do the trainer’s bidding, you start with small steps and reward progress towards the end goal. People are no different than horses.

I realize the post with the emails was deleted so many may not have seen it. My comment was specifically regarding that email exchange and the other poster’s complaint about LW’s email response of “OK” to Denis Glaccum’s “angry and strident” email telling her and EN to stay away from PF. In my opinion, complaining about someone saying OK in response to that kind of email is ridiculous. Even Boyd apologized for the tone of Glaccum’s email and said he didn’t speak for the whole board.

[anon6923113]

@Gardenhorse

I realize the post with the emails was deleted so many may not have seen it. My comment was specifically regarding that email exchange and the other poster’s complaint about LW’s email response of “OK” to Denis Glaccum’s “angry and strident” email telling her and EN to stay away from PF. In my opinion, complaining about someone saying OK in response to that kind of email is ridiculous. Even Boyd apologized for the tone of Glaccum’s email and said he didn’t speak for the whole board.

It’s actually a widely accepted professional and business email etiquette “no no” to do one word replies of either “thanks” or “ok.”

Here’s a good run down of commonly understood “do’s and dont’s” when it comes to professional email etiquette.

Email Etiquette Do’s:
[LIST=1]

[B]Make sure subject lines are clear and reflect the topic and urgency.[/B]

[B]Carefully consider who needs to be copied, and only include those really needed.[/B]

[B]Ensure Emails clearly define the issue, the action items, and any deadlines.[/B]

[B]Read Emails before sending to ensure they are concise, clear, and correct.[/B]

[B]Work to properly manage your Inbox and ensure messages are not missed or lost.[/B] [/LIST]

Email Etiquette Don’ts:
[LIST=1]

[B]Email when angry or send out unprofessional or inappropriate information.[/B]

[B]Send out unnecessary Emails, or copy, reply-all, or forward excessively.[/B]

[B]Reply to messages with “Thanks” or “OK” unless absolutely necessary.[/B]

[B]Forward messages without explaining why it is being sent and what needs to be done with it.[/B]

[B]Use Email when another form of communication is more effective.[/B] [/LIST]

[Gardenhorse]

@Virginia Horse Mom

It’s actually a widely accepted professional and business email etiquette “no no” to do one word replies of either “thanks” or “ok.”

Here’s a good run down of commonly understood “do’s and dont’s” when it comes to professional email etiquette.

Email Etiquette Do’s:
[LIST=1]

[B]Make sure subject lines are clear and reflect the topic and urgency.[/B]

[B]Carefully consider who needs to be copied, and only include those really needed.[/B]

[B]Ensure Emails clearly define the issue, the action items, and any deadlines.[/B]

[B]Read Emails before sending to ensure they are concise, clear, and correct.[/B]

[B]Work to properly manage your Inbox and ensure messages are not missed or lost.[/B] [/LIST]

Email Etiquette Don’ts:
[LIST=1]

[B]Email when angry or send out unprofessional or inappropriate information.[/B]

[B]Send out unnecessary Emails, or copy, reply-all, or forward excessively.[/B]

[B]Reply to messages with “Thanks” or “OK” unless absolutely necessary.[/B]

[B]Forward messages without explaining why it is being sent and what needs to be done with it.[/B]

[B]Use Email when another form of communication is more effective.[/B] [/LIST]

It’s also widely accepted business and professional etiquette not to write angry and strident emails. But I get it, we’re only allowed to criticize LW and EN on this thread.

[Djones]

@Gardenhorse

It’s also widely accepted business and professional etiquette not to write angry and strident emails. But I get it, we’re only allowed to criticize LW and EN on this thread.

Leslie would know Denis can be a pill to deal with. She’s been doing EN for a minute. His snark doesn’t excuse hers. It was an opportunity for her to say hey I’m sorry, could I call you tomorrow and follow up? I think there’s been a huge misunderstanding. Let me know when we might talk.

Remember this… she has to ask herself what her goal is in the long run and ensure that every word and action advances THAT goal. .winning alone or being the most righteous is not a healthy goal.

[anon6923113]

@Djones

Leslie would know Denis can be a pill to deal with. She’s been doing EN for a minute. His snark doesn’t excuse hers. It was an opportunity for her to say hey I’m sorry, could I call you tomorrow and follow up? I think there’s been a huge misunderstanding. Let me know when we might talk.

Remember this… she has to ask herself what her goal is in the long run and ensure that every word and action advances THAT goal. .winning alone or being the most righteous is not a healthy goal.

There were a lot of people copied on multiple communications as well I believe. Including Walker at times. Refer to rule #2 under my earlier list of “e-mail dos.” I don’t know if she did a reply all or not, as the post is now gone, but rule #2 under “e-mail don’ts” on that list might also apply.

I agree that Denis communication was VERY strident and grouchy. But he’s a known personality in the eventing community. He also is 79, and was literally one month away from the actual FEI competition running, and had almost certainly been stressed about making sure all necessary Covid related precautions and requirements were going to be met, etc etc. Think about that. Only a few months earlier, it was uncertain as to whether or not this competition would even happen. We’ve all been frustrated with Covid restrictions and uncertainties, and how it’s impacted on personal abc professional lives. Now imagine putting in an FEI event with all that going on. You’d be pretty much at the end of your rope, I bet.

So with all that stress swirling around, he’s getting communications from someone, with literally less than a month to go until the competition date, about a controversy pertaining to how a major eventing related social media outlet has decided they want to call the competition by something other than its licensed name this year, because of BLM protests, etc etc, and sensitivities covered by the national media across the country right now.

I can understand someone in that position being beyond frustrated.

He probably should have referred to e-mail etiquette don’t #1 on my list… and passed the responsibility for saying “No - we won’t change the name right now!” to someone else, and had that person call up EN and talk to them about that over the phone. But… hindsight is 20 20. All around.

I’ll also repeat something I mentioned pages and pages ago… really clearly right now… WTF were a few key other folks doing? John Thier, Rob Burk, and Jenni Autry (who were all copied on one of these e-mails) should have seen that this whole messy e-mail communication string between these particular parties was literally teetering on the edge of a cliff, and jumped in right then, and said something like, “Hey. A name change of an FEI venue like this is a serious thing to discuss, this is an impossible timeline, and the racial sensitivities raised are serious considerations. How about we schedule a sit down zoom conference call with multiple parties for a date immediately after the September competition runs, to discuss this issue in depth. People can then collect their thoughts, hear out various perspectives from others, present their own perspectives, and we can see if there is a respectful and constructive way to approach this issue that is good for the sport, takes into account the property owner’s wishes and family history, and can turn this into an opportunity for us to all come together and partner in a win win way on the important issue of diversity and inclusion in our sport as we head into 2021.”

That’s kinda leadership 101 when dealing with various stakeholders and different pressures in a situation like this…

I’m mystified as to what it is that I’m still missing, and why that wasn’t an option. Perhaps someone did try and propose that though, and one of the parties involved said, “F you and your stupid idea to do a Zoom call after the September competition, and just talk then.” Heck if I know.

I hope that seems more fair take on the email stuff to some of those who see this all a bit differently than I do.

[AffirmedHope]

A girl goes to the barn for most of the day and misses some really strong tea being spilt.

[Gardenhorse]

@Virginia Horse Mom

There were a lot of people copied on multiple communications as well I believe. Including Walker at times. Refer to rule #2 under my earlier list of “e-mail dos.” I don’t know if she did a reply all or not, as the post is now gone, but rule #2 under “e-mail don’ts” on that list might also apply.

I agree that Denis communication was VERY strident and grouchy. But he’s a known personality in the eventing community. He also is 79, and was literally one month away from the actual FEI competition running, and had almost certainly been stressed about making sure all necessary Covid related precautions and requirements were going to be met, etc etc. Think about that. Only a few months earlier, it was uncertain as to whether or not this competition would even happen. We’ve all been frustrated with Covid restrictions and uncertainties, and how it’s impacted on personal abc professional lives. Now imagine putting in an FEI event with all that going on. You’d be pretty much at the end of your rope, I bet.

So with all that stress swirling around, he’s getting communications from someone, with literally less than a month to go until the competition date, about a controversy pertaining to how a major eventing related social media outlet has decided they want to call the competition by something other than its licensed name this year, because of BLM protests, etc etc, and sensitivities covered by the national media across the country right now.

I can understand someone in that position being beyond frustrated.

He probably should have referred to e-mail etiquette don’t #1 on my list… and passed the responsibility for saying “No - we won’t change the name right now!” to someone else, and had that person call up EN and talk to them about that over the phone. But… hindsight is 20 20. All around.

I’ll also repeat something I mentioned pages and pages ago… really clearly right now… WTF were a few key other folks doing? John Thier, Rob Burk, and Jenni Autry (who were all copied on one of these e-mails) should have seen that this whole messy e-mail communication string between these particular parties was literally teetering on the edge of a cliff, and jumped in right then, and said something like, “Hey. A name change of an FEI venue like this is a serious thing to discuss, this is an impossible timeline, and the racial sensitivities raised are serious considerations. How about we schedule a sit down zoom conference call with multiple parties for a date immediately after the September competition runs, to discuss this issue in depth. People can then collect their thoughts, hear out various perspectives from others, present their own perspectives, and we can see if there is a respectful and constructive way to approach this issue that is good for the sport, takes into account the property owner’s wishes and family history, and can turn this into an opportunity for us to all come together and partner in a win win way on the important issue of diversity and inclusion in our sport as we head into 2021.”

That’s kinda leadership 101 when dealing with various stakeholders and different pressures in a situation like this…

I’m mystified as to what it is that I’m still missing, and why that wasn’t an option. Perhaps someone did try and propose that though, and one of the parties involved said, “F you and your stupid idea to do a Zoom call after the September competition, and just talk then.” Heck if I know.

I hope that seems more fair take on the email stuff to some of those who see this all a bit differently than I do.

I think that Boyd is a pretty busy person as well, and he still managed to stay polite in the email exchange. I personally don’t believe in giving someone a pass on bad behavior because they’re a “known personality”. I also find it amusing that people who criticize LW for replying “OK” in an email can twist themselves in pretzels to excuse other people’s much worse emails.

[FrittSkritt]

@Djones

Leslie would know Denis can be a pill to deal with.

@Virginia Horse Mom

And the internet is now aflame with very personal criticism of Mr. Walker, abd Denis, and a number of very ugly, mean spirited personal judgements of both of them.

I think taking a close look at the editorial decisions and past writing, of Leslie in particular, is also fair game now in the context of this discussion. Plenty of folks went on FB and looked at Denis’ FB page, and what was posted there over the course of months and years (his personal past), and made VERY critical personal conclusions about he and Mr. Walker’s character because of this background research and analysis they did. It is what it is. And once I, and many many others, looked closely at the background of the folks involved in this mess on the other side of it, Leslie’s background came right up. It’s VERY public information. And it’s fair to discuss it in the context of analyzing their editorial decisions and judgment, in my opinion.

Not pretty, not pleasant. But fair.

When someone [Denis] writes more than one public post that disparages minorities - that he believes BLM is a a terrorist organization, and that Black people were being “encouraged” to incite violence in wealthy White communities - I think that’s fair to say that his moral character is pretty lacking. This isn’t about opinion, it’s about downright racist content that’s being posted for the world to see.

And from what I’ve heard from many other people, he’s not just “difficult” to deal with - he’s an intolerant, overbearing man who is used to getting his way.* When his comfortable little world got pushed off its axis, he reacted negatively. Sure, maybe the stress of putting on an FEI event made him a little more on edge, but it does not explain nor excuse the posts I mentioned above.

*Yet it’s excusable behavior by many because “He’s done so much for the sport.” :uhoh: Yeah, so did George Morris with the U.S. showjumping team… :lol:

[anon6923113]

I’ve seen multiple comments now trying to compare Denis Glaccum to GM somehow or other.

:no::no::no:

[FrittSkritt]

@Virginia Horse Mom

I’ve seen multiple comments now trying to compare Denis Glaccum to GM somehow or other.

:no::no::no:

Yeah, I don’t mean to insinuate that Denis is a pedophile, but that it’s yet another example of male-dominant culture and behavior that we’re now more cognizant of. :nonchalance:

[FitzE]

@FrittSkritt

Yeah, I don’t mean to insinuate that Denis is a pedophile, but that it’s yet another example of male-dominant culture and behavior that we’re now more cognizant of. :nonchalance:

Don’t worry, you weren’t comparing Denis to GM. You were comparing the excuse for Denis’s behaviour to the same excuse being made for GM. No one honestly thinks you are calling someone a paedophile who is not.

[FrittSkritt]

@FitzE

Don’t worry, you weren’t comparing Denis to GM. You were comparing the excuse for Denis’s behaviour to the same excuse being made for GM. No one honestly thinks you are calling someone a paedophile who is not.

Thanks - appreciate the vote of confidence. You all know how words can be twisted around on here… trying to cover my a$$ just in case!

[Djones]

@FrittSkritt

Thanks - appreciate the vote of confidence. You all know how words can be twisted around on here… trying to cover my a$$ just in case!

I’m not personally excusing Denis’ behavior. I’m explaining it. He is a pain in the ass, to quote Dom Schramm. AND he’s the person in the power position.

Again: does Leslie want the name to be reconsidered OR does she want to teach Denis that he’s an asshat? She needs to pick one or the other. Yall are wanting cake, ice cream, sprinkles, and hot fudge and that might be asking too much when just cake would do for now.

Maybe I’ve just successfully navigated working around pissy old men and getting good results without ever letting them know I thought they were horrid people. There are going to be asshats in the world, that’s just people.

[FrittSkritt]

@Djones

Maybe I’ve just successfully navigated working around pissy old men and getting good results without ever letting them know I thought they were horrid people. There are going to be asshats in the world, that’s just people.

I think it’s more of, this generation is no longer tolerating that kind of behavior and women are demanding respect instead of acquiescing to the patriarchy. Dudes getting what they want just because they’re male and white (no matter the age) are starting to get called out on more and more.

[endlessclimb]

@Djones

I’m not personally excusing Denis’ behavior. I’m explaining it. He is a pain in the ass, to quote Dom Schramm. AND he’s the person in the power position.

Again: does Leslie want the name to be reconsidered OR does she want to teach Denis that he’s an asshat? She needs to pick one or the other. Yall are wanting cake, ice cream, sprinkles, and hot fudge and that might be asking too much when just cake would do for now.

Maybe I’ve just successfully navigated working around pissy old men and getting good results without ever letting them know I thought they were horrid people. There are going to be asshats in the world, that’s just people.

Yup. I worked overseas for a long time. Diplomacy, tact, and knowing how to get the best out of people went a long way when you’re dealing with a gaggle of cocky Russian/Turkish/Korean/Chinese men for a year straight.

It doesn’t make me less of an advocate for safety etc that I would tread softly in some areas. It made me effective in getting to the end goal.

I can count on one hand the “battles” I lost over 5 years of traveling. I can also count on one hand the number of times I had to take a hard stance to get their attention - it was 2 times, and those times were absolutely life-or-death scenarios.

Using a ham-handed style, and then standing behind it because “you were right and they were wrong”… that’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Someone above used training horses as an example. Even if you can win the fight, you ask - is it worth it? Is there a better way that won’t end with resentment?

[Gardenhorse]

@FitzE

Don’t worry, you weren’t comparing Denis to GM. You were comparing the excuse for Denis’s behaviour to the same excuse being made for GM. No one honestly thinks you are calling someone a paedophile who is not.

Thanks for expressing this so clearly. But you are more optimistic than I am about people’s ability to understand this distinction.

[mvp]

@Djones

I’m not personally excusing Denis’ behavior. I’m explaining it. He is a pain in the ass, to quote Dom Schramm. AND he’s the person in the power position.

Again: does Leslie want the name to be reconsidered OR does she want to teach Denis that he’s an asshat? She needs to pick one or the other. Yall are wanting cake, ice cream, sprinkles, and hot fudge and that might be asking too much when just cake would do for now.

Maybe I’ve just successfully navigated working around pissy old men and getting good results without ever letting them know I thought they were horrid people. There are going to be asshats in the world, that’s just people.

The only bummer about that is that the privileged a-hole who had a super-subtle “work around” done on him gets to keep continuing as he was. So when he finally meets a “buck stopper” who calls a spade a space and won’t tolerate his bigotry (or whatever his unpleasant style), that person gets flack-- from him and from the others who want credit for being such clever diplomats.

Sigh. I don’t want to have to smile and co-sign this stuff. It happens a lot and it gets tiring. I think the world will be a better place when (even) today’s forms of bigotry and sexism are reduced further by lots and lots and lots of people refusing to accept it.

[pluvinel]

@FrittSkritt

I think it’s more of, this generation is no longer tolerating that kind of behavior and women are demanding respect instead of acquiescing to the patriarchy. Dudes getting what they want just because they’re male and white (no matter the age) are starting to get called out on more and more.

Then “this generation” is due for a big disappointment. You can only control YOU and your reactions. You cannot TELL someone what to believe.

You cannot control others…well maybe you can control their behavior…if you are willing and accept to bring on the Red Guard and parade people around in dunce hats…but you cannot control their minds.

Women can demand respect by their behavior. There is no “patriarchy” if women don’t act like there is a patriarchy…and FYI, you are talking to an aging/aged hippie feminist who was the only woman working in facilities with all men who thought you were an annoyance and where there were no women’s toilets…so perhaps I know something about dealing with curmudgeons.

If a person is dealing with another human…of whatever persuasion…it helps to use tact and diplomacy. Yes, they are such quaint concepts that seem to escape some people these days.

[pluvinel]

@endlessclimb

Yup. I worked overseas for a long time. Diplomacy, tact, and knowing how to get the best out of people went a long way when you’re dealing with a gaggle of cocky Russian/Turkish/Korean/Chinese men for a year straight.

It doesn’t make me less of an advocate for safety etc that I would tread softly in some areas. It made me effective in getting to the end goal.

I can count on one hand the “battles” I lost over 5 years of traveling. I can also count on one hand the number of times I had to take a hard stance to get their attention - it was 2 times, and those times were absolutely life-or-death scenarios.

Using a ham-handed style, and then standing behind it because “you were right and they were wrong”… that’s throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Someone above used training horses as an example. Even if you can win the fight, you ask - is it worth it? Is there a better way that won’t end with resentment?

I agree with the above, but want to clarify the last statement as I made the analogy to training horses.

I said that you don’t pick a fight with a horse unless you know you can win the fight…and perhaps the fight has to be in a matter of human’s safety. Moral of the story is to pick your battles and what hill you want to die on.

I also said that the the mark of a good horseman was to get a horse to do the trainer’s bidding by use equestrian tact…and NOT pick the fight.

I suggested Dale Carnegie’s principles in this case, might have gone a long way to “making friends and influencing people”…and they starts with "Do not criticize, condemn or complain"…and if you start that way, you might actually get your way.

[FrittSkritt]

@pluvinel

Then “this generation” is due for a big disappointment. You can only control YOU and your reactions. You cannot TELL someone what to believe.

You cannot control others…well maybe you can control their behavior…if you are willing and accept to bring on the Red Guard and parade people around in dunce hats…but you cannot control their minds.

Women can demand respect by their behavior. There is no “patriarchy” if women don’t act like there is a patriarchy…and FYI, you are talking to an aging/aged hippie feminist who was the only woman working in facilities with all men who thought you were an annoyance and where there were no women’s toilets…so perhaps I know something about dealing with curmudgeons.

If a person is dealing with another human…of whatever persuasion…it helps to use tact and diplomacy. Yes, they are such quaint concepts that seem to escape some people these days.

Yep, I get it. I worked in a male-dominated field and got in massive amounts of trouble for piping up when there was blatant sexism and nepotism going on. :uhoh: As my parents say, sometimes you just have to play the game. (I always add in, “And hope that Karma shows up” to that.)