So, just to be clear, was EN “demanding” a name change for the event or “suggesting” a name change? And it was just for the event, not a name change for the property, correct?
Has there been any recent update on EN about this incident? Or from Ms. Wiley herself?
So, I cannot be the only one whose local bar(think Cheers, but with a lot of dead animals on the walls.) had habitues who wanted to start up a new chapter of the KKK on site when Mr Obama won the Democratic primary in 2008?
When I lived in the Ozarks I knew some Klan members, and strangely enough some Quakers(they called themselves Friends of course.)
Lived in NW Montana up against N Idaho for a time, there was a hard core white supremacist crowd there.
Since the venue name didn’t change by September and EN was told that continuing to push on the subject could lead to the LO cancelling the competition outright but they didn’t care, I am going to guess it was a demand that the competition’s name change occur not just in 2020, but before the event was held.
After all, if it was a discussion that was wanted, then there would have been a longer timeframe and willingness to let USEA, USEF and others try to persuade the LO and EO to change the name. Say, by 2021. Present data showing that a name change could increase the number of participants, the profitability to vendors, etc. Gathering data like that takes a bit of time.
I didn’t encounter any of that but half of my family is non-White. If that was going to be something any of them wanted or would participate in, they had the good sense not to discuss it with me or around me.
But when you talk about systemic racism that has less to do with the people on the playing field than the field itself.
Oh, and any speck of levity I was feeling yesterday has been annihilated overnight.
I was just watching a special on the Royal family in England. King George VI mentioned a plantation of trees that have been planted. Maybe people should have a better grasp on vocabulary. Single minded and no Webster’s or Random House around… I think people just thought if they yelled loud enough they would get their way. That is the younger generation. Glad I am a baby boomer… It is a temper tantrum… well, as my father said if you want to cry I will give you a reason. Now, Eventing has a reason. The loss of a wonderful supporter in many ways.
I agree people get over yourselves.
We understand the varied meanings of the word. It is the incomplete and therefore inaccurate narrative about abolitionists and Quakers(they call themselves Friends of course) and leaving out that little lynching thing that pulls us up short.
Hey everyone! Raise your hands if you want to hear Sing opine on the incomplete narrative and that lynching thing.
Hey! Where you all going?
Comeback!!
How shocking.
It is almost as if Zachariah Walker’s (black) life didn’t…um what’s the word…Matriculate! No. Meteetse!..No…there’s a word…cannot think of it right now…it will come to me…
Anyone who believes that systemic racism is not a real thing is being willfully blind.
Man, do I have bad news for you about how the last 91 pages have went.
EN and the USEA approached PFEE. They pushed the issue after it was not well received, then advised they will not use the word “Plantation” in the media for the event. Then PFEE advised EN they were no longer welcome on the property if that is the case.
I think a lot of people either forget or choose to ignore the fact that the event really cancelled this because EN said they wouldn’t use the word “plantation” in their media and TPTB decided that wasn’t acceptable in their eyes. EN didn’t force anything. They took a stand in the way they felt they could (not using hurtful language in their media) and those in charge of PFEE didn’t like that one bit.
True. And anyone who believes racism is behind everything is also willfully blind.
That’s why, with any issue that arises, it is necessary to identify the values at stake and analyze the evidence, causes, and effects, without a pre-existing conclusion as to what is going on.
@MorganSercu - reports allege they used force to open the gate - it was locked. And it was torn off it’s hinges at some point. But I see what you are saying with that video - it wasn’t torn off the hinges at that point of time in that situation when they first went through. None of us know who did it… or precisely when. That’s fair enough. But the facts are that the street, sidewalk, and neighborhood were all PRIVATE, and behind a closed gate, and these protesters forced the gate open without permission of the private community and property owners who live there, and then came onto the private street intentionally, as they wanted to march right up to the actual home of a local St. Louis official.
This situation happened this last summer… in the general wake of the death of George Floyd. St Louis has seen its fair share of protests and tension since Michael Brown’s death in 2014, but obviously Minneapolis is a few states away. I point this out because these particular protests were about more than the deaths of ant specific people at this point. They were and are about long-standing societal issues, and they reflect deep frustration and outrage. Which IS understandable. But, when people are that impassioned and upset, and gathering in a large group, and marching right up to someone else’s home… there is considerable potential for things to spiral out of control, and for people to get hurt. I’m in no way saying anyone shouldn’t protest… but I hope we can all agree that having more people hurt and killed, and private or public property damaged or burned is an undesirable thing.
I don’t say any of this to defend all of the behavior of the two people with guns shown in this video… it’s gun ownership and handling 101 that you DON’T stand around waving it in a tense situation like the woman is doing (:eek::eek::eek:)… that has so so many ways to end very very badly. All the same, the situation speaks to how some of these protests have escalated, gone in unforeseen directions. These two private property owners were at their own home when this situation transpired. And by all accounts, they felt threatened. And now they are defending themselves against criminal charges… which may or may not have merit. Time will tell. The charges are CERTAINLY controversial though, and even if they are eventually dropped or the couple is found not guilty, there is a permanent negative impact on their reputation.
I’m bringing this situation up to illustrate how a person in Mr. Walker’s position MIGHT have felt VERY concerned about any mention of drawing national media attention to the name of his property in the lead up to the Plantation Field International. Depending on the timing of main stream news coverage, there was DEFINITELY the potential for a crowd of protestors to show up at the show itself. The editorial EN ran, and subsequent articles in the Philly Inquirer and NYT all came out while the competition was happening, or immediately after it. There really wasn’t time for an organized protest to develop, and coordinate transportation out to this site. But did Mr. Walker know that was how the timing of various editorials and articles was going to play out when the alleged “threat” of main stream news coverage was made back at the end of August? No. He had no way of knowing that then. EN could just as easily have written their editorial 2 weeks BEFORE the competition date, then the national media could have picked up the story with over a week to go before the International ran, and then it’s totally possible that a crowd of protestors COULD have gathered on the grounds while they were trying to run this event… and that could have been a seriously risky situation in many different ways, and turned into something with INCREDIBLY bad optics if the organizers had attempted to block all protesters from the competition grounds. Practically speaking, they likely would have blocked protesters from the competition grounds of it had played out that way. After all, there are Covid related restrictions on spectators everywhere, and having a crowd protesting in close proximity to very fit, competitive eventing horses has the potential to turn into a dangerous situation if horses start spooking. But what would the news coverage have been like if the organizers and property owner of the venue with the controversial name in Chester County, where elitist white people gather to participate in an elitist equestrian sport, well… what if they literally shut out a crowd of black protestors? The news coverage of a situation like that would have been BRUTAL, because the “optics” would have been AWFUL.
Anyway… I’m simply trying my best with this post to show others why I think it’s fair that the property owner felt incredibly concerned and threatened by talk of national news coverage about the “controversy” related to the name of the venue. I want to be clear that I am not trying to say protests
which have been going on this summer and fall all over the country are good or bad… or that various underlying root issues behind the protests did or didn’t merit outrage… nope. That’s not my point. My point is simply that these things have spun out of control, over and over, and media coverage has been a mess, and random people have gotten swept up into the maelstrom, and their lives have been substantially impacted. And I think any fair minded person has to acknowledge that if you were in Mr. Walker’s or Mr. Glaccum’s shoes in late summer… you too might have been incredibly anxious about this situation spiraling out of control, if there was main stream news coverage and protesters showed up at the actual property,
One point that hasn’t really been discussed: there are people on here and throughout the communities you all live in who have been directly asked by loved ones who are not the dominant race where they live to stand up for them. 3 years ago, a car salesman made a remark about “Spanish speakers” (code for immigrant and not even knowing if I was a “Spanish speaker” but figuring b/c I looked white he could make his racist remarks). The management disciplined him and I NEVER returned to that dealership again (and I did every bit of maintenance there down to routine oil changes for 8 years - I am a super loyal customer) and I bought my new car elsewhere.
When I complained about this interaction at a family dinner, my non-Caucasian sister-in-law teared up and said, “Thank you for doing that on your own. I am so tired of having to put a target on my back and stand up to those people all by myself or ask someone to do it for me.” Totally unexpected, and it stuck with me.
Many of you love to bang on disparaging what you call “white women deciding what other people should be offended about” and saying “EN should have brought forward the POC who were uncomfortable with the name.” I can only guess you have never had a loved one not of the dominant group ask you directly, please take these things up so we don’t always have to put ourselves out there in the line of fire (sadly, literally in some cases). And if you have, then I genuinely don’t understand where you’re coming from on this thread.
Hell, you think the LO here was right to fear the media??!! Imagine fearing the kind of vigilante local mobs (I think the current euphemism is “militia”) who come after people who dare make waves in many local communities, especially rural ones. Why do they need to be the face of change if some people from the dominant culture are willing to represent for them?
That’s actually the premise of a lot of legal representation. We take the heat for you as our client so you don’t have to. We shield you as much as possible from the vitriol and insult and petty meanness. We take on the crap jobs and the nitty gritty negotiations and the mind-numbing busy work so you don’t have to get stressed out about it.
Lots of people do a parallel thing wrt their loved ones. Were I EN or anyone else, and were I approached by POC uncomfortable with the name, and had I gone to bat for them, under NO circumstances would I produce their names or likenesses for anyone who demanded it. It is not safe or comfortable for some people to come forward and there’s no need for it. If I got mocked for being a “woke” “white SJW” or whatever the epithet du jour is, so be it. Nothing compared to what others suffer daily. I know what I’m doing and why and on whose behalf, whether gyou “believe” it or not, so I’m good. Demands for “proof” that I’m speaking on behalf of someone would be meaningless to me. It’s literally my job not to give out info about the people I represent, so I can do that all day.
Again, my view is that the LO made the right decision for himself and his enjoyment of his land and I wish him well with it however he wants to use it going forward. I’m only sorry that he, Glaccum, EN, and the governing bodies couldn’t have made this work a different way. I can conceive of a way it could have been a win all around. But they didn’t and that’s an end to it. Done and dusted.
FWIW, had I seen the stuff that Glaccum posted publicly and had I known he was connected with the event, I would not have patronized it as rider or spectator or vendor, so I recognize the loss to me would have been the same either way.
Even if it is private property, it’s also my understanding that castle doctrine does not permit home owners to brandish firearms for intimidation unless there is intent to use on someone entering their home.
Well… I’ve been commenting for most of this thread and on a different side of the issue than you are, but I haven’t denied “systemic racism” exists. I probably define/describe it slightly differently than you do… but absolutely it exists and is an issue.
I don’t wish to fight or argue with you, but this is a straw man argument in many respects. I’m sure you can find a few posters on this thread who have taken an extreme position, but the majority of the folks debating with you, and pushing back on some of what you have said are pretty darn moderate and have talked about the specifics of THIS situation, and why we think the way EN went about their activism with respect to the name of this venue was poorly thought out.
I’m no expert on castle doctrine 
And I didn’t bring that case up to defend the couple involved. I brought it up to illustrate just how quickly some of these situations are escalating and turning into something pretty darn dangerous.
By all accounts… Walker wanted to avoid having a crowd on his doorstep. Can we agree that’s reasonable on his part?
I don’t wish to fight or argue with you, but this is a straw man argument in many respects. I’m sure you can find a few posters on this thread who have taken an extreme position, but the majority of the folks debating with you, and pushing back on some of what you have said are pretty darn moderate and have talked about the specifics of THIS situation, and why we think the way EN went about their activism with respect to the name of this venue was poorly thought out.
Well said @Virginia Horse Mom !
Oh absolutely. But using them as an example was not a good choice. Idiots waving guns around. Ugh.
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