You say you don’t know anyone like that. But we all have horses. How many times have you heard people say “hire a Mexican” or some such thing? Or how often have you had a conversation with someone where they felt that they needed to let you know the race of someone they were describing? If we are being honest you have to admit that you do have people you would consider friends who fall into this category. People who are kind and generous and do all the right things but sometimes say things that make you scratch your head. That was the point about systematic racism I was trying to make to riderboy. It exists. To deny it is to be disingenuous.
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Yep and from what I’ve heard from the POC I’ve listened to about this issue, the drama over the name wasn’t what was the most hurtful, it was people’s reactions on Facebook and CoTH that were the most hurtful.
Also thank you, everyone and the ponies are all safe but thank you for thinking of us. Now if anyone could just send some rain out way!
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I don’t currently have a horse. When I did, I did eventing and grooms were unpaid friends who didn’t have a mount in that competition and then you returned the favour when they competed. There were no Mexicans or anyone else to hire - that’s a horse world I’ve never been part of and never had the cash for. The only people at my daughter’s lesson barn are caucasian (boarders and staff), Asian (boarders), and Black (boarders). That’s it. It’s a different world - local, no big shows or events, no grooms, no barn workers who aren’t also riders themselves (working students or boarders who muck and feed for reduced board), no braiders, no full board (grooming/tacking etc.), nothing like that. It’s a back yard place with a Pony Club affiliation and that’s it.
I have had people in the past ten years that I would have considered at least acquaintances and perhaps friends and they have said things to let me know the race of the person they were describing in a non-positive way and that was the end of our association. It was easy b/c they aren’t family/co-worker/school parent/client. I was easily able to disengage with them both in person and on line and so all that goes away. I should also note that I am an expat. It’s a small and constantly shifting community. The other woman who was like this moved back to her home in the US and that’s that. I saw some people who are members in a club I’m a member in speaking this way on line. I immediately quit the group, informed the group admin as to why I quit, reported the group to the club president, I have not returned to that club (even though there are probably more people not like that than are), and we are considering resigning our membership as a family. So, while I have exposure to those types of people on line and in connection with that club, I am easily able to distance myself completely.
I have less than 15 close personal contacts in the horse world at present. I have a small and diverse family. I have a rather small social circle due to the nature of expat life, even smaller now due to covid. When someone presents to me like that I have the absolute luxury of simply never associating with them again. I empathize with people as not everyone can cut those types out of their life and I don’t judge anyone who hasn’t. I have dear friends with family members who are openly racist and my heart breaks for them. Someday something will happen and I’ll be faced with the hard decision b/c it won’t be easy to simply disengage. It may come in the form of a client who I cannot fire b/c I’m not the managing partner. Then I will have to choose between my job and not being exposed to that person.
I should also note that there may be many more racist people around me daily, but I do not speak the local language to a proficiency that enables me to catch most casual conversation going on. The two times I did meet a loud, local racist screaming in English I escalated it to (i) getting her thrown out of the establishment and barred by the management from returning and, (ii) was asked by the staff (at the club I mentioned above) if I would be willing to make a formal statement to club governance of what I had heard and how I had engaged her and I did and it was escalated to the management/governance level and she was sanctioned by the club. Both times the women were non-Chinese Asian saying disgusting things about Chinese Asians.
I understand my life circumstances are unique, but in no way do you have the place or knowledge to call my faithful report of my lived experience disingenuous. That is out of line.
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@FitzE I was in no way calling you or your experiences disingenuous. My initial response was to riderboy who has a problem with systematic racism and other so-called woke ideologies. My examples were to point out to him that subtle racism can and does exist just about everywhere.
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Ah, understood. I agree with you wholeheartedly there. I don’t engage people using that “what about X? I thought so!” nonsense rhetoric (it’s sophomoric and guaranteed to make then look foolish when someone answers in the affirmative) so I will admit I don’t read those posts. That and people who use “woke” as an insult. Or “snowflake.” Or who will go on about how it’s ridiculous to be offended by one word (plantation) but oh so completely reasonable - nay, correct! - to be offended by other words (fragility, privilege) without an ounce of self awareness. People who decry threats of outing on twitter but totally accept the doxxing/cyber stalking that went on here. People who accept all that and then wail about the “dissonance” they perceive only from those who don’t agree with the majority opinion. Not. Worth. The. Time.
I read the snippet of that post in your posts and I agree with you that subtle and not-so-subtle racism exists everywhere.
I will also say that I am fully aware that once I downshift in life and move back to one of my passport countries where I speak one of the local languages, I’m f^(#ed. I’ll hear the only green grocer in the village tell an “off colour” joke and then where will I buy veg? My neighbour will drop some racist stereotype into a conversation and then what will I do, sell up? And move where?
I’m in a bubble now where I mostly cannot understand the local racists (though I have been the target of overt racism here on more than one occasion but I’m still privileged so it doesn’t really touch me like it does people of colour back home) and any I do I can quite easily disengage from and avoid - easy peasy. Not so once I move “home.” And, to be honest, the more skilled I become in the local language and the more aware I become of local news, the more hideous racism I see here, so that bubble is fading as well.
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VHM - that gate wasn’t damaged by the protestors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDs835Lo9Y&t=7s
Who hires grooms? I’ve always done the work myself so I have no frame of reference. Hell, I clean my own house, clean and fix my barn (well, up until I took a nasty fall) and no one in my family has ever hired a cleaning service that I know about. Repairs that I can’t do I am at the mercy of whomever they send. But they always gets offered a cup of coffee when they arrive and a sandwich too if it is past 10 am. I know many of them start their day around 4 or 5 am.
Which doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty of overt and covert racism. We’re now expanding our search for someone with particular skills and finally (FINALLY!) actually sending people to campuses again - including a broader cross-section of colleges than they did long ago. I mean, yes, you pretty much expect Ph.D.'s to check out the professional publications and apply for jobs but it darn well doesn’t hurt to send people out there to underscore that we really want applicants from non-Ivy universities too. We’re a bit hamstrung for international headhunting though. Still, we are working on it.
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So, just to be clear, was EN “demanding” a name change for the event or “suggesting” a name change? And it was just for the event, not a name change for the property, correct?
Has there been any recent update on EN about this incident? Or from Ms. Wiley herself?
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So, I cannot be the only one whose local bar(think Cheers, but with a lot of dead animals on the walls.) had habitues who wanted to start up a new chapter of the KKK on site when Mr Obama won the Democratic primary in 2008?
When I lived in the Ozarks I knew some Klan members, and strangely enough some Quakers(they called themselves Friends of course.)
Lived in NW Montana up against N Idaho for a time, there was a hard core white supremacist crowd there.
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Since the venue name didn’t change by September and EN was told that continuing to push on the subject could lead to the LO cancelling the competition outright but they didn’t care, I am going to guess it was a demand that the competition’s name change occur not just in 2020, but before the event was held.
After all, if it was a discussion that was wanted, then there would have been a longer timeframe and willingness to let USEA, USEF and others try to persuade the LO and EO to change the name. Say, by 2021. Present data showing that a name change could increase the number of participants, the profitability to vendors, etc. Gathering data like that takes a bit of time.
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I didn’t encounter any of that but half of my family is non-White. If that was going to be something any of them wanted or would participate in, they had the good sense not to discuss it with me or around me.
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But when you talk about systemic racism that has less to do with the people on the playing field than the field itself.
Oh, and any speck of levity I was feeling yesterday has been annihilated overnight.
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I was just watching a special on the Royal family in England. King George VI mentioned a plantation of trees that have been planted. Maybe people should have a better grasp on vocabulary. Single minded and no Webster’s or Random House around… I think people just thought if they yelled loud enough they would get their way. That is the younger generation. Glad I am a baby boomer… It is a temper tantrum… well, as my father said if you want to cry I will give you a reason. Now, Eventing has a reason. The loss of a wonderful supporter in many ways.
I agree people get over yourselves.
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We understand the varied meanings of the word. It is the incomplete and therefore inaccurate narrative about abolitionists and Quakers(they call themselves Friends of course) and leaving out that little lynching thing that pulls us up short.
Hey everyone! Raise your hands if you want to hear Sing opine on the incomplete narrative and that lynching thing.
Hey! Where you all going?
Comeback!!
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How shocking.
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It is almost as if Zachariah Walker’s (black) life didn’t…um what’s the word…Matriculate! No. Meteetse!..No…there’s a word…cannot think of it right now…it will come to me…
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Anyone who believes that systemic racism is not a real thing is being willfully blind.
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Man, do I have bad news for you about how the last 91 pages have went.
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EN and the USEA approached PFEE. They pushed the issue after it was not well received, then advised they will not use the word “Plantation” in the media for the event. Then PFEE advised EN they were no longer welcome on the property if that is the case.
I think a lot of people either forget or choose to ignore the fact that the event really cancelled this because EN said they wouldn’t use the word “plantation” in their media and TPTB decided that wasn’t acceptable in their eyes. EN didn’t force anything. They took a stand in the way they felt they could (not using hurtful language in their media) and those in charge of PFEE didn’t like that one bit.
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True. And anyone who believes racism is behind everything is also willfully blind.
That’s why, with any issue that arises, it is necessary to identify the values at stake and analyze the evidence, causes, and effects, without a pre-existing conclusion as to what is going on.
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@MorganSercu - reports allege they used force to open the gate - it was locked. And it was torn off it’s hinges at some point. But I see what you are saying with that video - it wasn’t torn off the hinges at that point of time in that situation when they first went through. None of us know who did it… or precisely when. That’s fair enough. But the facts are that the street, sidewalk, and neighborhood were all PRIVATE, and behind a closed gate, and these protesters forced the gate open without permission of the private community and property owners who live there, and then came onto the private street intentionally, as they wanted to march right up to the actual home of a local St. Louis official.
This situation happened this last summer… in the general wake of the death of George Floyd. St Louis has seen its fair share of protests and tension since Michael Brown’s death in 2014, but obviously Minneapolis is a few states away. I point this out because these particular protests were about more than the deaths of ant specific people at this point. They were and are about long-standing societal issues, and they reflect deep frustration and outrage. Which IS understandable. But, when people are that impassioned and upset, and gathering in a large group, and marching right up to someone else’s home… there is considerable potential for things to spiral out of control, and for people to get hurt. I’m in no way saying anyone shouldn’t protest… but I hope we can all agree that having more people hurt and killed, and private or public property damaged or burned is an undesirable thing.
I don’t say any of this to defend all of the behavior of the two people with guns shown in this video… it’s gun ownership and handling 101 that you DON’T stand around waving it in a tense situation like the woman is doing (:eek::eek::eek:)… that has so so many ways to end very very badly. All the same, the situation speaks to how some of these protests have escalated, gone in unforeseen directions. These two private property owners were at their own home when this situation transpired. And by all accounts, they felt threatened. And now they are defending themselves against criminal charges… which may or may not have merit. Time will tell. The charges are CERTAINLY controversial though, and even if they are eventually dropped or the couple is found not guilty, there is a permanent negative impact on their reputation.
I’m bringing this situation up to illustrate how a person in Mr. Walker’s position MIGHT have felt VERY concerned about any mention of drawing national media attention to the name of his property in the lead up to the Plantation Field International. Depending on the timing of main stream news coverage, there was DEFINITELY the potential for a crowd of protestors to show up at the show itself. The editorial EN ran, and subsequent articles in the Philly Inquirer and NYT all came out while the competition was happening, or immediately after it. There really wasn’t time for an organized protest to develop, and coordinate transportation out to this site. But did Mr. Walker know that was how the timing of various editorials and articles was going to play out when the alleged “threat” of main stream news coverage was made back at the end of August? No. He had no way of knowing that then. EN could just as easily have written their editorial 2 weeks BEFORE the competition date, then the national media could have picked up the story with over a week to go before the International ran, and then it’s totally possible that a crowd of protestors COULD have gathered on the grounds while they were trying to run this event… and that could have been a seriously risky situation in many different ways, and turned into something with INCREDIBLY bad optics if the organizers had attempted to block all protesters from the competition grounds. Practically speaking, they likely would have blocked protesters from the competition grounds of it had played out that way. After all, there are Covid related restrictions on spectators everywhere, and having a crowd protesting in close proximity to very fit, competitive eventing horses has the potential to turn into a dangerous situation if horses start spooking. But what would the news coverage have been like if the organizers and property owner of the venue with the controversial name in Chester County, where elitist white people gather to participate in an elitist equestrian sport, well… what if they literally shut out a crowd of black protestors? The news coverage of a situation like that would have been BRUTAL, because the “optics” would have been AWFUL.
Anyway… I’m simply trying my best with this post to show others why I think it’s fair that the property owner felt incredibly concerned and threatened by talk of national news coverage about the “controversy” related to the name of the venue. I want to be clear that I am not trying to say protests
which have been going on this summer and fall all over the country are good or bad… or that various underlying root issues behind the protests did or didn’t merit outrage… nope. That’s not my point. My point is simply that these things have spun out of control, over and over, and media coverage has been a mess, and random people have gotten swept up into the maelstrom, and their lives have been substantially impacted. And I think any fair minded person has to acknowledge that if you were in Mr. Walker’s or Mr. Glaccum’s shoes in late summer… you too might have been incredibly anxious about this situation spiraling out of control, if there was main stream news coverage and protesters showed up at the actual property,
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