it hasn’t, and it will be. This thread is evidence of that.
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AGREED!
:no:
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I can’t agree strongly enough with this. These terms (“racist!” “white fragility!” “check your privilege” and on the other side, “snowflake!”) are being used to shut down dialogue when a person disagrees with the view that has been deemed acceptable. And they are a lazy way of thinking and arguing, because they are equivalent to saying, “I don’t have to explain why I think your view is misguided; I’m just going to label you racist, end of discussion.” We are also seeing assertions that (for example) white people have “no right to have an opinion” on issues that relate to race.
That’s not how democracy (or civilized society) works when it comes to issues that affect everyone. And it’s not going to do anything to move us toward a harmonious, mutually respectful society. In fact, it just perpetuates an “us versus them” mentality.
John McWhorter, the well-known Black linguist at Columbia, has said that “Antiracism” has taken on characteristics of a religion-- a creed one does not question, and which has many symbolic rituals, but which does little to actually help Black people. https://www.thedailybeast.com/antiracism-our-flawed-new-religion?ref=scroll
I will say that in general, it has been refreshing on this thread to see all sides of the controversy examined and discussed, and largely in ways that respect both the landowner’s point of view and the perspectives of potential competitors/visitors to the property.
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That’s just patently untrue. There are countless examples of people getting fired for offensive Tweets.
You are saying two different things
Pluvinel: you can post whatever you want, provided it is allowed on that platform. True.
Djones: you can be fired for what you post. True.
freedom of utterances isn’t freedom from social consequences
ETA, I did not quote the post which has now poofed…
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I deleted my post because I misread/misinterpreted pluvinels post. No worries 
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I find people like those friends of yours quite odd -to be pitied really, what a shame to have that kind of mindset. Like riding a bay horse differently than a grey horse based on the color difference. There are plenty of reasons to like and dislike people on the content of their character. Or I suppose, sometimes their lack of it.
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My apologies for the delayed reply, but I did want to be sure I responded. You understand my position correctly (although to elaborate slightly, I care about the justification that others might be hurt by my name due to reasons like historical atrocities committed against their ancestors, rather than general non-specific offense because I live at “Blue Barn Farm” and the color blue makes them upset). Thank you for reading my posts and considering them even though you disagree. I understand that my POV on this matter is not universal.
I’m always a bit confused by this concern/alleged threat. It was established from the get-go by the property owner, by the event organizer, and by Eventing Nation that the name of the event had no original relation to race or slavery. The reason for the name change request was not because the origin of the name was problematic, it was because the event now reaches such a wide audience that the name could be misunderstood. Mainstream media coverage would not have been able to accurately make any claim of racism by covering this issue. Other posters have pointed to riots and looting happening in other parts of the country, but those are happening in direct response to someone’s death. I don’t understand why this could be used as a threat that would carry any weight, even if someone wanted to.
That said, I think we’ve established by now that I don’t have a spare 300 acres for everyone to event over, so perhaps I am missing something here.
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Cuyler Walker had retreated considerably from public life since 2014 & I suspect he didn’t relish it again. I don’t know why he dropped out of the political race after the cut-off, the state may have investigated it and no charges were filed that I can find, but I doubt it was pleasant.
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No worries at all. Im in Colorado and got evacuated on Saturday (we’re back now thank god) and believe me I could use a laugh!
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Yes but a big fire can sit around you so close enough!
Uhhhh… there were definitely some protests that happened in the wake of George Floyd’s death… and others focused on the deaths in Atlanta and Louisville… but they spread to other cities, and then protests went beyond those particular deaths of specific individuals in specific situations, and become more about general protests pertaining to issues involving the police and the black community across the country (historic injustices are part of the underlying issues for sure), and other specific concerns raised by the group Black Lives Matter have also been part of various protests. Protests in New York, Portland, Seattle, St. Louis, and elsewhere all summer became about much more than the specific deaths of certain individuals. The whole CHOP zone in Seattle comes to mind…
During St. Louis protests in late summer, a viral moment was captured on video when a group marched down a private street, and 2 private property owners stood in front of their large luxurious home, with guns in hand. The group that was marching was not simply focused on BLM issues or a specific death… apparently they wanted to raise their voices to the mayor (or another local St. Louis official - I can’t remember)… and that individual lived on the same private street as the folks who were caught on video holding the guns. The crowd apparently wanted to march directly in front of that local official’s home, and had to pass the other private individual’s home on the way there, and go on a private street in a gated community. The crowd did go through a gate (forcefully… it was knocked off its hinges) to march on this private street. According to the homeowners who were seen holding guns… people in the crowd shouted threatening things at them as they were sitting outside in the evening on their own patio on their private property, as they were marching by, which is supposedly why the two people ran inside and got guns to “guard” their property. Who knows what happened… none of us were there. We only know what’s been reported and what the publicized video seems to reveal… two nervous people standing on their own front lawn holding guns as a big crowd passes by. Additionally… we now know the guns these private individuals were holding in the widely seen video were legally registered and owned, and the two people were standing on their own property, and the crowd had forcefully entered a gated neighborhood and started marching down a private street. REGARDLESS of any of those facts though, and the fact that the people who owned that home were lifelong Democrats, who had in no way gone out looking to confront this crowd (they were initially seated on their own patio at home on the evening the video was taken)… a lot of the media coverage about them was HARSH. They were portrayed as crazy, gun brandishing racists. Those two people are now facing charges for brandishing a weapon… and the prosecutor who filed them is known to be VERY left wing, and VERY activist, and the charges are VERY controversial.
After watching how that story has played out… I can totally understand someone in the land owner’s position with respect to the Plantation Field controversy… well… I can understand him being VERY worried about any main stream media attention. The media have gotten key details on many of these cases WRONG when reporting on them. Look at the sad Breonna Taylor story and all the related reporting. The media ran with stories about a “no knock” warrant for months… but apparently the investigation revealed that was not the case with respect to the warrant, and that there were many other details of the case that have been inaccurately reported, or outright omitted, from all the news coverage. These details were revealed after there was a decision not to prosecute the officers involved in her death. Her death is very sad… but there was a rush to judgement about it, and a lot of marches and protests, and the Louisville community was divided and pained, and trust between police and the black community was further damaged… and inaccurate rushed reporting by a lot of the media fueled much of this tension.
It’s a dynamic that has played out across the country over and over. People still talk about Michael Brown and “Hands Up - don’t shoot!”… but when Eric Holder and the Obama DOJ looked into that case, they found that that narrative was out right made up by one particular witness… the police officer involved was actually assaulted by Michael Brown and his use of deadly force was determined to be justified…
So… I’m pointing all these other cases out now, not to say that there isn’t systemic racism or real issues out there… but just to say that mistakes happen with many of these stories. Media coverage is rushed and gets certain key details wrong. Passionate protests happen because these ARE very sensitive and painful societal issues… and later on, when details of investigations are made public, few people even realize much of what was initially reported about certain cases was inaccurate. It happens entirely too often. But damage done by looting and fires in various communities? That’s often permanent. Ferguson, Missouri was torn apart after the protests over Mike Brown’s shooting… and the whole situation is tragic. It was years ago, but much of that area still has not recovered…
I find it odd that you seem to be making a case that this property owner had no real reason to fear main stream media coverage… because the facts were on his side, and the name didn’t really have racist origins. Anyone who has been paying attention to these issues over the last several years has learned that there is OFTEN a rush to judgement… and simmering racial tension and societal wounds are right there under the surface, and protests easily escalate into riots… and only after the fact do we all learn that some of the initial reporting on these stories was inaccurate. But it’s too late by then for small businesses and some private property owners that got caught up in one of these situations… the damage is done, and few folks even acknowledge afterwards what actual investigations into many of these cases revealed, and how many widely reported details proved inaccurate.
I think the land owner in this Plantation Field situation had EVERY reason to fear that media coverage would be slanted, unfair, inaccurate, and there would be a rush to judgement that would cause harm to his and his family’s reputation… and might actually result in a crowd of protestors showing up on his doorstep. And I don’t blame him for feeling threatened by that, and wanting to avoid anything like that.
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@Equkelly please stay safe and I hope all the horses at your barn are safe, too. I’ve friends in Fort Collins so I’m nervously watching from afar. Definitely holding you all in my thoughts, worthless as that may be.
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I don’t know people like that because I’ve reached the point where I cannot allow that kind of toxicity in my life. I am blessed to have no one like that in my family, I work in boutique firm now with no one like that on staff, and no one in my small school community. Thus, anyone like that I may run into I simply avoid the connection in the future.
But, yes, it’s the flip offhand remark that reveals so much. So much of what has genuinely repulsed me in this thread was of that nature and I’m astounded that the authors don’t grok the message they send when they write some of the stuff they write. It’s been eye opening for me in a very negative way and I’m generally disheartened by the whole thing.
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You say you don’t know anyone like that. But we all have horses. How many times have you heard people say “hire a Mexican” or some such thing? Or how often have you had a conversation with someone where they felt that they needed to let you know the race of someone they were describing? If we are being honest you have to admit that you do have people you would consider friends who fall into this category. People who are kind and generous and do all the right things but sometimes say things that make you scratch your head. That was the point about systematic racism I was trying to make to riderboy. It exists. To deny it is to be disingenuous.
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Yep and from what I’ve heard from the POC I’ve listened to about this issue, the drama over the name wasn’t what was the most hurtful, it was people’s reactions on Facebook and CoTH that were the most hurtful.
Also thank you, everyone and the ponies are all safe but thank you for thinking of us. Now if anyone could just send some rain out way!
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I don’t currently have a horse. When I did, I did eventing and grooms were unpaid friends who didn’t have a mount in that competition and then you returned the favour when they competed. There were no Mexicans or anyone else to hire - that’s a horse world I’ve never been part of and never had the cash for. The only people at my daughter’s lesson barn are caucasian (boarders and staff), Asian (boarders), and Black (boarders). That’s it. It’s a different world - local, no big shows or events, no grooms, no barn workers who aren’t also riders themselves (working students or boarders who muck and feed for reduced board), no braiders, no full board (grooming/tacking etc.), nothing like that. It’s a back yard place with a Pony Club affiliation and that’s it.
I have had people in the past ten years that I would have considered at least acquaintances and perhaps friends and they have said things to let me know the race of the person they were describing in a non-positive way and that was the end of our association. It was easy b/c they aren’t family/co-worker/school parent/client. I was easily able to disengage with them both in person and on line and so all that goes away. I should also note that I am an expat. It’s a small and constantly shifting community. The other woman who was like this moved back to her home in the US and that’s that. I saw some people who are members in a club I’m a member in speaking this way on line. I immediately quit the group, informed the group admin as to why I quit, reported the group to the club president, I have not returned to that club (even though there are probably more people not like that than are), and we are considering resigning our membership as a family. So, while I have exposure to those types of people on line and in connection with that club, I am easily able to distance myself completely.
I have less than 15 close personal contacts in the horse world at present. I have a small and diverse family. I have a rather small social circle due to the nature of expat life, even smaller now due to covid. When someone presents to me like that I have the absolute luxury of simply never associating with them again. I empathize with people as not everyone can cut those types out of their life and I don’t judge anyone who hasn’t. I have dear friends with family members who are openly racist and my heart breaks for them. Someday something will happen and I’ll be faced with the hard decision b/c it won’t be easy to simply disengage. It may come in the form of a client who I cannot fire b/c I’m not the managing partner. Then I will have to choose between my job and not being exposed to that person.
I should also note that there may be many more racist people around me daily, but I do not speak the local language to a proficiency that enables me to catch most casual conversation going on. The two times I did meet a loud, local racist screaming in English I escalated it to (i) getting her thrown out of the establishment and barred by the management from returning and, (ii) was asked by the staff (at the club I mentioned above) if I would be willing to make a formal statement to club governance of what I had heard and how I had engaged her and I did and it was escalated to the management/governance level and she was sanctioned by the club. Both times the women were non-Chinese Asian saying disgusting things about Chinese Asians.
I understand my life circumstances are unique, but in no way do you have the place or knowledge to call my faithful report of my lived experience disingenuous. That is out of line.
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@FitzE I was in no way calling you or your experiences disingenuous. My initial response was to riderboy who has a problem with systematic racism and other so-called woke ideologies. My examples were to point out to him that subtle racism can and does exist just about everywhere.
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Ah, understood. I agree with you wholeheartedly there. I don’t engage people using that “what about X? I thought so!” nonsense rhetoric (it’s sophomoric and guaranteed to make then look foolish when someone answers in the affirmative) so I will admit I don’t read those posts. That and people who use “woke” as an insult. Or “snowflake.” Or who will go on about how it’s ridiculous to be offended by one word (plantation) but oh so completely reasonable - nay, correct! - to be offended by other words (fragility, privilege) without an ounce of self awareness. People who decry threats of outing on twitter but totally accept the doxxing/cyber stalking that went on here. People who accept all that and then wail about the “dissonance” they perceive only from those who don’t agree with the majority opinion. Not. Worth. The. Time.
I read the snippet of that post in your posts and I agree with you that subtle and not-so-subtle racism exists everywhere.
I will also say that I am fully aware that once I downshift in life and move back to one of my passport countries where I speak one of the local languages, I’m f^(#ed. I’ll hear the only green grocer in the village tell an “off colour” joke and then where will I buy veg? My neighbour will drop some racist stereotype into a conversation and then what will I do, sell up? And move where?
I’m in a bubble now where I mostly cannot understand the local racists (though I have been the target of overt racism here on more than one occasion but I’m still privileged so it doesn’t really touch me like it does people of colour back home) and any I do I can quite easily disengage from and avoid - easy peasy. Not so once I move “home.” And, to be honest, the more skilled I become in the local language and the more aware I become of local news, the more hideous racism I see here, so that bubble is fading as well.
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VHM - that gate wasn’t damaged by the protestors.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGDs835Lo9Y&t=7s
Who hires grooms? I’ve always done the work myself so I have no frame of reference. Hell, I clean my own house, clean and fix my barn (well, up until I took a nasty fall) and no one in my family has ever hired a cleaning service that I know about. Repairs that I can’t do I am at the mercy of whomever they send. But they always gets offered a cup of coffee when they arrive and a sandwich too if it is past 10 am. I know many of them start their day around 4 or 5 am.
Which doesn’t mean there isn’t plenty of overt and covert racism. We’re now expanding our search for someone with particular skills and finally (FINALLY!) actually sending people to campuses again - including a broader cross-section of colleges than they did long ago. I mean, yes, you pretty much expect Ph.D.'s to check out the professional publications and apply for jobs but it darn well doesn’t hurt to send people out there to underscore that we really want applicants from non-Ivy universities too. We’re a bit hamstrung for international headhunting though. Still, we are working on it.
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