Hello! I am the first to admit that I know very little about TB bloodlines, or breeding in general. I am looking for an eventing prospect, and my trainer has a client who’s TB is too much for her but she thinks would be a good match for me. We are going to look at him tomorrow and to discuss a trial. Even as out of the bloodline loop at I am, I have heard mixed things about Storm Cat babies. Just looking for opinions and other’s experiences. He also has Secretariat on both sides.
Here is the pedigree:
Do not be scared off of Storm Cat-line horses. There is absolutely no reason to be scared away.
Yes, Storm Cat himself did seem to get a lot of offspring with some distinctive personality quirks. There is this somewhat willful, high strung anxiety that many inherited, but not to a degree that limits their usefulness. Overall they are highly athletic with a lot of heart and above average ability over fences. You have to evaluate the horse in front of you, because pedigree is not a guarantee of anything.
I’m not super familiar with Storm Passage; but he is a full brother to Tactical Cat who is not only very “sporty” looking himself, but has lovely offspring. I cared for a handful back in the day and they were your textbook TB sporthorse types- rangy, uphill, nice movers, etc. Hotter to work with, but very trainable.
This horse’s broodmare sire, Ide, I’ve met in person several times. He is built like a TANK, much like his sire Forty Niner, but even beefier. He is an eye catching animal for sure, although a heavier build than I usually prefer.
If the horse is the physical type and personality you are looking for, go for it.
It also depends on how high you think you want to go with the horse. Storm Cat is not a line found in many UL horses, so (IMO) he’s not a high percentage bet for above prelim. I But look at the horse in front of you, and if you plan to stay at the LLs (pre-FEI), there is nothing apparent in the pedigree to stop you.
There are some excellent sport horse lines scattered about in the pedigree farther back.
Thank you for the insights! I haven’t seen pictures so I’m going in blind and with an open mind. I very much believe in looking at each horse as an individual but since I had heard some distinctive things about that line, wanted to learn a little more. I’m glad to hear he has some bigger builds in his pedigree, I like that look better than the stick-like TBs. At this point, I am looking for at least prelim, but would love to be able to reach for higher. We will see. The beauty of the situation is that there is a one month trial option so I would have time to get to know him and see how we mesh.
eh I wouldn’t pass judgment just because “Storm Cats haven’t made it to the UL frequently”. The majority of the eventing world is now inundated with only part bred TB’s and warmblood’s with little TB blood in them. It would be rather passive to state storm cat couldn’t sire an UL horse because many TB’s are not given the chance by the UL riders.
Storm Cat himself was quirky and many of his direct sons and daughters were known to be a tad high strung and what some would classify as difficult. With that being said; they are hardy horses and when they find riders who can get them going in the right direction; they do not disappoint.
I would not be overly concerned by a horse who is a grandson.
What I do love about the horse’s pedigree besides Storm Cat; is that his sire’s dam is by Caro out of a Raise a Native line. His dam is by IDE who is a Forty Niner son. The dam was out a mare from Secretariat lineage. All wonderful things in a pedigree for sport. Secretariat bred horses are great jumpers, good movers and smart. Ide currently resides at Old Friends and he is a STUNNING stallion; typical son of Forty Niner who is broad, great bone, beautiful head and balance.
Here is a conformation photo of IDE: http://americanracehorse.com/popular-louisiana-stallion-ide-pensioned-to-old-friends/
I was about to add $0.02 on Caro. I had two OTTB Caro grandsons (both by With Approval) as hunters. One with a Roberto maternal line and one with a Vice Regent maternal line. Both excellent movers and jumpers, and very trainable. The Caro/Roberto gelding was one of the easiest horses I’ve ever experienced. A stuffed monkey could’ve won on that one!
That being said I have a soft spot for just about any recent SC offspring. Some of the best horses I’ve ridden have had SC right up close, particularly Delineator & Freud kids. They are intense & sensitive under saddle, and they have a great feel for what is fair - if you treat them unfairly, they will become very defensive. I don’t find this to be a bad quality, personally, and if there is one “bloodline” I tend to really mesh with as a rider, it is the more sensitive lines like DLB & SC kids. On the plus side, their intensity makes them very good jumpers and capable eventers, and their sensitivity is really more of a “lightness” than a temperament flaw, IMHO. To me, they’re easy to ride but you have to ride intelligently and not emotionally with them. The other thing is that SC, when further back and combined with Secretariat, seems to produce an unusually well-moving TB. Say what you will about SC but there is a common theme in modern TBs with “dressage” movement - they all have SC, usually linebred and tail male, with doubles to Secretariat in most of their pedigrees.
The rap that SC has for “difficulty” IMHO, stems from the fact that SC has saturated just about every pedigree and is a household name, and novices or beginner riders that end up with a TB that is too much for them tend to only recognize SC in the pedigree (when there are other contributors) and malign him. Normally, it’s more a result of management: maybe not knowing how to handle a TB, a green horse, or maybe it’s the horse spends too much time inside, etc. I’ve taken care of many SC kids and grandsons at this point in my life and they’ve all been easier keepers as far as TBs go: good eaters, easy to maintain weight, quiet stall manners, etc… but all owned and trained by knowledgeable, good horsemen.
However, a grandson is that, a grandson - there are other contributors at play.
I love Forli and Forty-Niner up close, both being good lines for a good, solid eventer - good brains, good movement, and good looks in spades with both stallions. Caro is another line that is older, and seen further back these days, but was known back in his heyday as a good sport sire for nice, reliable hunters & jumpers.
One stallion who has saturated the TB breed quite as much as Storm Cat is Danzig, and he is a good percentage bet for an UL event horse. For the eventing brain, look at Fappiano descendants–there is a good chance you will find one who is brave and a good problem solver. For movement, look for Tudor Minstrel and Forli, both Hyperion line. In fact, IMO, Hyperion from any source is quite likely to produce good movement. For jumping, look for Royal Charger and his 3/4 brother Nasrullah, both of whom produced somewhat difficult temperaments. Nasrullah and Princequillo together moderated that temperament.
For an event horse, the brain may well be the most important factor. For a dressage horse, you have to have one who is relatively mellow, works with you, and willing to do what you tell them to, even if you have to tell them over and over again, IMO, because you should never completely place an event horse under domination, so that it loses its initiative, its ability to solve problems, and its fifth leg which are needed in XC. For show jumping, the ability to change the jumping style from the XC flattish to a greater bascule with more “hang time”, is essential. That means–at least to me–a horse who is flexible in the brain and able to absorb training of both aspects of eventing jumping.
Mind you, these are just my opinions, and are based on likelihood only. Always look at the horse in front of you. But when you can find a horse with as promising a pedigree as, say, Blackfoot Mystery, almost every line of whom is proved and well proved in sport, why not keep looking–if you are aimed at the ULs?
their sensitivity is really more of a “lightness” than a temperament flaw,
This describes my SC granddtr (through Tomorrow’s Cat) to a tee. She is intense, very intelligent, always always seeking the right answer and if she feels she is “punished” for the wrong move, or even thinks she made the wrong move and might be unfairly corrected, she gets defensive before you can blink. It took me a while after getting her OT to teach her to think a little more before deciding to react and not automatically jump from one try to another try to another before I have had a chance to reward her or ask again. Her mind works FAST.
Her son has the same intelligence, with a little toned down intensity and flitting from one try to the next, thanks to his WB sire (whose dam was TB, Kahlua Song (Seattle Song x Hawaii)
She is about as opposite from my old TB, the real JB, in terms of lightness, as you can get in a TB.
I’ve taken care of many SC kids and grandsons at this point in my life and they’ve all been easier keepers as far as TBs go: good eaters, easy to maintain weight, quiet stall manners, etc… b
Mine has never been in really hard work but definitely on the easy side of things once her system straightened out from her brief track life. Not much more than a ration balancer and some alfalfa pellets in the Winter, less in the Summer. After she foaled at age 10, she became an even easier keeper.
She is a VERY classic Hunter-moving TB, but from what I understand that may also be from her dam, a Pleasant Colony dtr, Colonial Currency.
So that’s my N=1 with SC grandkids, but she fits your much larger N experience to a T.
I’m also one who really doesn’t care whether or not they have SC in their pedigree. This is a gelding…it really is about the individual horse in front of you.
I have a young horse that looks to be a big time horse and who has SC through the dam line (where I think it can have influence on temperament–his dam is by Storm Creek). This horse SCREAMS UL eventer. And is liked by several BNR for eventing. He is however a bit more fragile in temperament. He is generous over fences but difficult on the flat in the contact. He requires a good rider…not for beginners or those looking for a packer. But he is getting better and better. As a 5 year old now, I consider him very immature. His jumping is VERY easy and right now I am just taking my time. I’ll put the lower levels on him and then let a pro take him further…although he wants to be in an individualized program…not a number in a large string of horses.
OP…this horse you are looking at is older and off the track. Just go take a look at him and give him a try. You will know whether you want to put your time into.
I’ve seen more than a few Storm Cat-line horses and there are some who looked like good sport prospects, some that looked like good barrel racing prospects, some who looked like good polo prospects, and some who looked like they were waiting for their appearance on “The Wild One: Watch Super Famous Trainer Turn This Beast Into Something Useful Over a Period of Two Years” on Lifetime.
Some standouts:
Storm Creek mare who looked kind of like a short-ish pudgy pumpkin who went on to be a stakes winner. Suspicious of strangers, very businesslike. She’s now a broodmare. She looked more of a western type.
Tactical Cat filly who looked like a classic (and classy!) hunter or event prospect. Long, lean old-school TB type (obvious the Caro was strong in her). Nuttier than a pecan peanut butter pistachio sandwich and roughly as hot as Kilauea volcano. Not necessarily dangerous, but hot, sensitive, and crazy. After several years of very patient handling she calmed down into a decent pleasure horse.
Saw Niagara Causeway in the flesh…he was pacing the fence line and if he’d been mine I would have slapped a western saddle on him and gone and pushed cows for 8 hours. He looked like a strong, solid, unusually tall cow horse. His kids, on the other hand? Well, he is out of a Theatrical mare and all his kids look like Theatrical. Nothing like the Storm Cat side. PRETTY round floating trots, nice necks, nice hips. Saw a colt of his on the track who was a loud, rowdy, super-friendly party bro (the horse version of wearing a ball cap and going to a kegger). Met one filly who was a full sister of the party bro and she was sweet but kind of a ditz, and another filly who was a better mover than the first and a little tooooooo smart for her own good (the kind who will spook at chickens if she thinks spooking at a chicken will mean she can manipulate you into avoiding work). If you were looking for an event prospect, he’d be one to look for.
Johannesburg gelding who, bless his heart, I’m sure his mother loves him. Weedy, kind of sickle-hocked, narrow-chested, good quiet disposition but homely as a mud fence and as dumb as a brick and suspicious in nature.
If anyone is curious…this is the gelding I mentioned above. Dam is by Storm Creek. But he looks like a good mix of many in his pedigree…and looks like a big time event horse (as told to me by top people). So you really do not know what aspects of the pedigree are showing through until you go to look at them. My guy has filled out to a hair under 17 hands rock solid…looks like a timber horse.
I have a Storm Cat grandson out of Boogie Cat, brave cross country, honest over fences, can feel like a loaded bomb at a show but has never made a wrong move under saddle. He can however have hysterics in the field if a bug lands on him. He has a great work ethic and responsive to the aids. Unfortunately his showing career was cut short due to hock problems.
He is 17 now, have had him for 12 years and still ride him on trails.
