Ex-race Arabs for endurance?

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=Romantic Rider;3892786]

Wow, those Asgard fillies are ugly. I don’t mean to offend anyone, and I’ve heard so much about the Asgard horses. But, I’ve always thought Heraldic was ugly too. Obviously looks aren’t everything. Nevertheless, I don’t see why a horse can’t be pretty and functional at the same time. ;)[/QUOTE]

Well, it depends what you are buying for. If you are a serious endurance competitor who wants to go to the highest level, then looks won’t matter at all to you. General correctness and movement will. During an interview John Crandell said that is why his father picked out Heraldic – out of a herd of 20 some, his movement just was amazing. Effortless, but with plenty of power.

And he certainly proved his worth, although I wish they’d waited afew years before pushing him that hard, 'cause it doesn’t seem he’s competing anymore…

Still, he certainly showed he was a top endurance horse.

As for heads…yes, those Asgard fillies have rather plain heads, but that’s not really what bothered me (I have a TB background too, and I have Tekes, so I don’t mind a plainer head – heaven help me, I have WBs(!), so I REALLY don’t mind a plain head…) – more like the unharmonious conformation.

But again, they could be late bloomers. Or, like Bonnie pointed out, if they move really well, that could override everything, IMHO.

[pdq]

And he certainly proved his worth, although I wish they’d waited afew years before pushing him that hard, 'cause it doesn’t seem he’s competing anymore… Still, he certainly showed he was a top endurance horse.

Sadly, the reason Heraldic suddenly dropped out of sight was because of a horrific pasture accident. He was still at the top of his game in endurance and would have gone on strong for years and years – and the reason for that was he was allowed to grow up in the best of all possible worlds – out 24/7 in good pastures on hilly slopes, and started slow with lots of flatwork to develop muscle, bone, and mind and become supple, biddable, and rateable. They put a great deal of time into him in proper training and education since their aim is always to develop the long term endurance horse that is a consistent performer over time. I rode against John and Heraldic at the horse’s first 50 and got to watch the horse’s antics going down the trail (too funny!), and later interviewed his owner for an article after the horse had become the first ever to win the endurance Triple Crown.

What a tremendous loss – the family wasn’t sure last year shortly after the accident if he was ever going to heal enough to come back. Haven’t heard anything this year, so I can only assume than he is still out of the game. :sad:

[smokygirl]

You really can’t go wrong with a race-bred arabian. Most of them (since they usually race at a later age than their TB counterparts… usually over 3, and some not until 4). Many of them go onto successful careers in many disciplines after racing, including into working western events, and many of the great Serazim’s offspring went from racing into Endurance (www.pegasuspark.com look under Serazim’s kids). I personally prefer the Wiking lines vs. the French lines, but it’s a personal preference. They just seem hardier to me. Ofcourse, you will want a soundness exam… but Arabians have far fewer injuries on the tracks than the average TB does, just because they have such good bone and feet usually. (some don’t, but the majority do).

And while Belesemo does do Endurance with their horses, their are quite a few CMK (same lines… some of the same stallions) who are racing with theirs btw. The arabian world can be so small sometimes Another place you may want to consider looking is at Toskhara Arabians. Dick and Christine are amazing to work with. They are in Texas, but the Toskhara (TA) arabians are world reknowned for their athleticism and beauty (the order they breed for it, but personally, I think most of their horses could be on the cover of Horsie Vogue any day. Charlie, aka Kordelas, is one of their SR stallions and is the type you expect the prince on the white steed to ride up on. They also have several other sr stallions that have won at the track, but not all are on the web site. They also have very reasonable pricing, and their horses work with some of the best trainers available).

[matryoshka]

mysaygrace, your mare is gorgeous. She’s a powerful mover, which doesn’t make her an easy ride. I hope to see you at a ride sometime this year!

[gothedistance]

@Kyzteke;3893544

Heraldic – out of a herd of 20 some, his movement just was amazing. Effortless, but with plenty of power…although I wish they’d waited afew years before pushing him that hard, 'cause it doesn’t seem he’s competing anymore…

Heraldic suffered a horrific pasture accident – THAT is why he is no longer competing. The damage was so bad his family wasn’t sure if he’d ever come back from it. Thus far he hasn’t. He was at the top of his game and would have been out there winning for years and years as one of the best endurance horses of all time.

Tragic to lose a champion in his prime to a freak accident.

[mysaygrace]

“mysaygrace, your mare is gorgeous. She’s a powerful mover, which doesn’t make her an easy ride. I hope to see you at a ride sometime this year!”

THANK YOU MATRYOSHKA!!! I still can’t thank you enough for riding with me two years ago to keep my silly mare & me safe & get us to the end of the ride!!!:yes: I can’t wait to meet you new mare, she sounds lovely!! You might see me volunteering again this year instead of competing, funds are low, like everyone else I’m sure. But I love the sport too much to stay away!!!:winkgrin: I figure Gracie’s son (Mingo McKay) will be three in May so I’m going to focus on him this summer, he’s the love of my life, wish you’d come meet him! Hope to see you this season too, take care & thanks again for the compliment on Gracie!!

P.S. I’ve learned the “hover” position, so riding Gracie’s big trot may be a little more forgiving, LOL!:yes:

[Romantic_Rider]

This Egyptian mare I’m looking at by no means has an extreme head. It’s elegant and definitely Arab, but… okay, here’s a link to some photos of her taken last year at the Egyptian event, where she did get two top tens in halter.

https://www.robhessphoto.com
Go to 2008 Egyptian Event, exhibitor number 171.

I know you don’t ride the head. But I still think a horse can be beautiful and a real athlete. Yes, I want to be a top competitor. I know brains and movement are most important. But hey, there’s got to be some relatively complete packages out there somewhere. ;):lol:

Shadow, your bay horse, and that grey I saw in another thread are both gorgeous animals. And wow, those Toskhara horses look incredible. Unfortunately they aren’t reasonably priced for me, and I need something local.

[Auventera_Two]

@chicamuxen1;3877013

The ex-race horse isn’t going to be a better endurance horse because it raced. For the most part it was raced because it was bred to have conformation for speed, which for a large part is also a good conformation for endurance as long as the legs and feet are correct enough to hold up. Racing however can really take it’s toll on horses, particularly to knees and ankles.

Personally, I prefer the Russian, French and Polish lines as they have been bred for racing for a large part and I like that conformation. But I was given a straight Egyptian mare years ago, sired by Imperial Imdal, bred to be a show horse. Big body, big bone, big feet, sane and quiet mare. Nice horse to ride. I’d still suggest the racing line and CONFORMATION to anyone wanting to compete seriously. Want to see some nice horses? http://www.asgardarabians.com/stratagem.htm is the young Asgard stallion and look thru the web site for more russian type horses. Lojic, on the endurance horse page lives next door to me. I’ve ridden him a couple of times. I’d like to own one of the Asgard horses!

Bonnie

I requested (and received) a stallion video of Stratagem, and all I can say is, anyone wanting to breed to him or own a baby better go see in person. While he appears to be a total sweetheart, his right hind leg is freaky bad. Everytime it strikes down, the hock wobbles like a bowl of jello, and the hind legs are seriously bowed, landing to the lateral aspect of the hoof every stride. It is so obvious it jumps out of the television set at you. I went to a friend’s house and showed her the video, having already watched it myself. I told her to tell me if she notes anything weird about it. As soon as he trotted away from the camera she said - WHOA! BAD BAD LEGS.

Asgard has had amazing success but I also scratch my head at the conformation “issues” in their herd. They are really nice people, and lots of folks love their line. But the conformation issues have slowed me down from pursuing one as my 2nd endurance horse.

You CAN have beauty and functionality in one. My horse is Russian/Egyptian and I think she’s lovely. She did come from a halter barn, and was a “drop out” because she wasn’t exotic enough with enough snort n blow. Well, I can’t imagine a horse being any snortier or blowier, but hey…they didn’t think she had it. She’s in my profile for anyone who wants to see.

Norval (Shadow14) on this forum also has a killer gorgeous Arabian gelding. I don’t know his bloodlines, but he’s a knockout, and Norval rides him about a million miles a week. He doesn’t compete anymore, but Rio can sure go.

I’m with you RR - don’t settle for ugly. There is NO reason why good endurance horses can’t be bred and selected for overall beauty, conformation, and gaits as well as performance.

[pj1]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;3893103]
but Americans are notorious for breeding for all the wrong traits.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]
Of course we are!! Doesn’t matter if it’s horses or dogs we “improve” them into ruin.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=gothedistance;3894278]
Heraldic suffered a horrific pasture accident – THAT is why he is no longer competing. The damage was so bad his family wasn’t sure if he’d ever come back from it. Thus far he hasn’t. He was at the top of his game and would have been out there winning for years and years as one of the best endurance horses of all time.

Tragic to lose a champion in his prime to a freak accident.[/QUOTE]

Ah — I hadn’t heard that! Do you know exactly what happened?

[matryoshka]

mysaygrace, I’ll probably be driving the horse ambulance at the Foxcatcher again this year. If you volunteer at that ride, come and see me. I’m usually parked near the car entrance if I’m not picking up a horse somewhere–look for a Brenderup. I joined the Chesapeake Trail Club, so I’ll most likely be volunteering at their CRT’s, too. They’re offering 5, 10, and 15 mile distances at their spring ride this year.

I’m probably in the minority on this thread, but I kinda like ugly horses. I was glad that Roxy has turned out to be rather plain. Don’t know why. I’ve had drop-dead gorgeous horses in the past, but the ones who steal my heart usually have some flaws in the looks department.

Good conformation is rarely ugly, though.

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=Auventera Two;3894651]
Norval (Shadow14) on this forum also has a killer gorgeous Arabian gelding. I don’t know his bloodlines, but he’s a knockout, and Norval rides him about a million miles a week. He doesn’t compete anymore, but Rio can sure go.

.[/QUOTE]

Thank you Vickey for the kind words. I love my arabs and my last 5 horses have been purebloods and I feel nothing is tougher then an arab.
BUT if I wanted to get back into the racing I think this time I would go for a cross. A arab/Standardbreed. I had one and she was fantastic.
A arab can trot comfortably at 8 mph and if pushed can do 12. At 8 he can go all day but at 12 he will wear down quickly.
A cross breed that I mentioned can run 19 mph pushed and 12 easily.
So if the 50 miler was on a flat race track and my arab could trot constantly at 8 mph I would do a 6 hour 50. Too slow around here to finish anywhere in the top ten.
But a cross breed can easily do 12 or a 4 hour 50. More likely to top ten or better.
So if you want to really save the horse trotting is the way to go but too slow so unless you want to gallop alot of the time I feel a purebred arab is just too slow.
That said nothing is more comfortable then an arab in a laid back canter just loping out the miles.:lol::lol: Suprising that laid back lope is only 8 or 9 mph.

Rio is by True Colors who is Egyptian.
This is his dad
http://www.straightegyptians.com/portrait/truecolours_e.html
Rio is registered as Colors

[Icecapade]

[QUOTE=matryoshka;3895380]
mysaygrace, I’ll probably be driving the horse ambulance at the Foxcatcher again this year. If you volunteer at that ride, come and see me. I’m usually parked near the car entrance if I’m not picking up a horse somewhere–look for a Brenderup. I joined the Chesapeake Trail Club, so I’ll most likely be volunteering at their CRT’s, too. They’re offering 5, 10, and 15 mile distances at their spring ride this year.

I’m probably in the minority on this thread, but I kinda like ugly horses. I was glad that Roxy has turned out to be rather plain. Don’t know why. I’ve had drop-dead gorgeous horses in the past, but the ones who steal my heart usually have some flaws in the looks department.

Good conformation is rarely ugly, though.[/QUOTE]

I am bias… I have been fortunate to work with some lookers… and some fuglies. And good atheletes regardless of their look.

http://www.frankhopkins.com/tribute5.html

I can’t find the bay, awesome horse… ugly as sin… and the gray mare, third down- I have worked w/ love horse… not ‘pretty’ or dainty but full bodied and smart. I have similar blood through a Thadrian tie… (mine is get… She is like sister to a brother of a daughter or something… I think its one generation removed. And Thadrian himself isn’t a looker I don’t think… but gawd does he throw awesome horses. - I’m not partial to sledge hammer heads (as I fondly refer to them. ) they look stupid and physically their lung capacity is reduced because they can’t suck in as much air… its why Arabs liked full nostrils, not teacup noses.

Shadow’s horse’s are lovely and its about as typy as I would like to go. True Colors is too much… just tooooo much for me. Glad they have a niche somewhere though I guess.

[mp]

@Romantic Rider;3894472

I know you don’t ride the head. But I still think a horse can be beautiful and a real athlete. Yes, I want to be a top competitor. I know brains and movement are most important. But hey, there’s got to be some relatively complete packages out there somewhere. ;):lol:

You don’t ride the head, but you still have to look at it. :lol:

I’m with you on the total package. And this guy is it. I’m never going to breed again, but … if I won the lottery …

Cardsharp

He raced for three years and retired from the track sound with clean legs. He’s big-bodied, a little over 15h, has bone out the wazoo and he’s gorgeous, too. His owners were long-time race breeders (Polish lines) who are now breeding for reining horses. I’ve seen this horse in person, and he is one impressive damned specimen.

[ride2endure]

I’m a big fan of the Asgard horses, and while I agree that they may not look like much as youngsters listed on their website, when they pass you going down the trail they look amazing!

After a few years of being out of the endurance world, I’m working my way back in after recently buying a 10 year old gelding. I’m saddened to hear the news about Heraldic. When the Crandells were first starting him out, Jeff rode him at the Fort Valley ride, and when I was having some problems with my mare, they were so kind to stop and weight until we got straightened out. We rode most of that ride together, and I remember thinking what a nice young horse he was then.

My goal is to one day have an Asgard horse, but in the meantime I’m excited about working with my new boy. The more I see him the more I realize how handsome he is. I thought he was pretty plain at first, but it just depends on how he’s standing and moving. We’re aiming for doing a CTR this fall; in the mean time, we’re working on some dressage basics before we start a conditioning program.

[Dazednconfused]

[QUOTE=smokygirl;3893628]
You really can’t go wrong with a race-bred arabian. Most of them (since they usually race at a later age than their TB counterparts… usually over 3, and some not until 4). Many of them go onto successful careers in many disciplines after racing, including into working western events, and many of the great Serazim’s offspring went from racing into Endurance (www.pegasuspark.com look under Serazim’s kids). I personally prefer the Wiking lines vs. the French lines, but it’s a personal preference. They just seem hardier to me. Ofcourse, you will want a soundness exam… but Arabians have far fewer injuries on the tracks than the average TB does, just because they have such good bone and feet usually. (some don’t, but the majority do).

And while Belesemo does do Endurance with their horses, their are quite a few CMK (same lines… some of the same stallions) who are racing with theirs btw. The arabian world can be so small sometimes Another place you may want to consider looking is at Toskhara Arabians. Dick and Christine are amazing to work with. They are in Texas, but the Toskhara (TA) arabians are world reknowned for their athleticism and beauty (the order they breed for it, but personally, I think most of their horses could be on the cover of Horsie Vogue any day. Charlie, aka Kordelas, is one of their SR stallions and is the type you expect the prince on the white steed to ride up on. They also have several other sr stallions that have won at the track, but not all are on the web site. They also have very reasonable pricing, and their horses work with some of the best trainers available).[/QUOTE]

Someone’s been drinking the forum kool aid :eek: