Ex-race Arabs for endurance?

[Romantic_Rider]

I want to start working with a second horse this year. My Anglo is a good horse, but she doesn’t have the mentality to be a great one and she is getting older. I found a couple of ex-race Arabian mares for sale in Endurance News, (in Michigan, so a doable drive). I’m waiting for pics and papers. They sound like nice horses. One 4yr.old 14.3 hh Wiking granddaughter, and a 7 yr.old leggier French bred mare. As far as I know, ex Arab race horses do well in endurance. Any body read about Jan Worthington and Golden Lightning? He’s an ex-race horse, actually from this same owner. And obviously they’ve done well. I’ve heard of others. Has any body else heard something to the opposite effect? I’m wondering if they run into soundness problems later on with being started hard at 3.

My other option is a 5 yr. old straight Egyptian mare. Untrained, but great bloodlines, 15.2 hh, terrific bone, and absolutely flawless conformation. We know her owner, so I’d be able to work with her over the summer for free to see if I liked her. Just not sure which option would be my best bet. Opinions?

[2enduraceriders]

<<<My other option is a 5 yr. old straight Egyptian mare. Untrained, but great bloodlines, 15.2 hh, terrific bone, and absolutely flawless conformation. We know her owner, so I’d be able to work with her over the summer for free to see if I liked her. Just not sure which option would be my best bet. Opinions?>>>

For long term soundness this would be my choice! Our gelding started at 7 was sound until he died at 39. Our started at 5, 10, 14, 6, 7 year olds over the years are still sound now with hard riding. None have reached their 30’s yet but the one’s started at 14, 6, and 7 we plan on riding endurance this year and keeping forever now…

[gypsymare]

I went to the Arabian race horse auction at the track that was the same week as the 2005 NAEC in Fair Hill. WOW! Lots of gorgeous horses. But also quite a few with crooked front legs and thin thin little legs. Yes you can find a great horse there… but make sure you look carefully and get one that can withstand the miles. Are these horses one the track? Try to do a bit of networking and you may find more there to look at that aren’t advertised.

[mysaygrace]

I have a Straight Egyptian mare (Say Grace), she’s bred thru the nose, The Minstril granddaughter, etc. , she has a trot others have to canter to keep up with her. She also gets in shape very quickly & has amazing recovery rates. Down side, I’ve found she was slow to mature both physically & mentally & she’s super sensitive (hot). I’ve been told she’s a 100 mile horse, but I’m definitely the one holding her back, I have trust & confidence issues with her. I’d go for the SE arab, but that’s just my opinion. I can’t say much for the Ex-race horses since I don’t have any experience with them. I think Tracy Reynolds here on the NE has some Arabs that race & has done very well with them. In fact when I was helping scribe at a CTR last fall she had a few horses there that she still races & then can also just take to a CTR or endurance ride & they easily adjust, how cool is that!!! Good luck with your new project:)

[tkhawk]

Well I have an ex race Arab. Mostly use for trail-but put a lot of miles. She is 15 and great. She is sensitive-but responsive and fun. Not all of them are run down-you do have some good horses. but I guess it boils down to your preferance-both sound like great choices…

[chicamuxen1]

The ex-race horse isn’t going to be a better endurance horse because it raced. For the most part it was raced because it was bred to have conformation for speed, which for a large part is also a good conformation for endurance as long as the legs and feet are correct enough to hold up. Racing however can really take it’s toll on horses, particularly to knees and ankles.

Personally, I prefer the Russian, French and Polish lines as they have been bred for racing for a large part and I like that conformation. But I was given a straight Egyptian mare years ago, sired by Imperial Imdal, bred to be a show horse. Big body, big bone, big feet, sane and quiet mare. Nice horse to ride. I’d still suggest the racing line and CONFORMATION to anyone wanting to compete seriously. Want to see some nice horses? http://www.asgardarabians.com/stratagem.htm is the young Asgard stallion and look thru the web site for more russian type horses. Lojic, on the endurance horse page lives next door to me. I’ve ridden him a couple of times. I’d like to own one of the Asgard horses!

Bonnie

[511]

Where do you find an ex race arab? I want one!!!

[tkhawk]

[QUOTE=5;3877028]
Where do you find an ex race arab? I want one!!![/QUOTE]

Actually So. Cal has a nice Arab racing circuit. I bought my mare up North though. Funny, she was born close to where I live now, then was sold and ended up north and I got her there and slowly have been moving south and ended up close to where she was born!

My girl is mostly Polish. I don’t know much about the stables-maybe someone in the racing forum can give you exact details on what to expect? The one my girl came from was a big stud but I hear they closed down? -Haven’t kept up.

They are fun…

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=5;3877028]
Where do you find an ex race arab? I want one!!![/QUOTE]

Delaware, TX and AZ all have Arab racing. Plus there are the bigger breeding farms who sell off their stock if they don’t pan out racing or if they are geldings. In fact, there is a husband/wife team of endurance ridiers (I think he won the Tevis) whose names escape me now, but they are now working for one of the top Arab racing barns.

If you Google “Arabian Racing” I’m sure all kinds of stuff will come up for you.

I’d love to breed to one of the racing Arab stallions, but they are spendy.

[chicamuxen1]

Kyteke

You are thinking of the Reynolds, who were working for Cre Run stables in VA for a while. they left and moved back to CA.

If you want to admire a couple of good looking race bred stallion do look at Asgardarabians.com. tom bred Statagem and has Bandjo de Falgas on lease. I love the look of both stallions but particularly Stratagem. Both stallions are 16 hands. Stratagem is currently leased to Heather Reynolds so he will get competed in endurance.

Bonnie

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;3878399]
You are thinking of the Reynolds, who were working for Cre Run stables in VA for a while. they left and moved back to CA.

If you want to admire a couple of good looking race bred stallion do look at Asgardarabians.com. tom bred Statagem and has Bandjo de Falgas on lease. I love the look of both stallions but particularly Stratagem. Both stallions are 16 hands. Stratagem is currently leased to Heather Reynolds so he will get competed in endurance.

Bonnie[/QUOTE]

Bonnie – thank you! Sometimes my middle-age memory goes south…

Actually, I was just on the Asgard Arab site – I DO like both of their stallions – Statagem more than BDF, but I have to say I was underwhelmed with the look of the BDF fillies shown on the “Sales” list. NOT attractive at all and not crazy about they way they are put together.

Of course, that doesn’t mean they can’t perform, but they sure aren’t pretty horses…

Geographically, I’m closer to Belesemo Arabians, who also have a fine record in endurance breeding, although their stock is mostly CMK rather than racing.

http://www.belesemo.com/

In fact, this last fall I bought 3 of their young, chestnut mares by proven endurance stock and will be breeding 2 of them this year to my cremello Akhal Teke stallion, Kinor.

I’ve already sold afew of his youngsters to endurance riders, so it will be exciting to see what is produced when bred to these “endurance specialists.”

[chicamuxen1]

Kyzteke

I’ve learned something about young Arabians. They can look like crap when they are young. The round bulky Crabbet types might look a bit better as 2 yr olds, the leaner, flatter, racing lines can just look so unimpressive. And photos! OMG, they just look so poor in a still photo. Then, go look at them moving, in a video, live horse flesh and then you see the promise. Once they are 4-5 years old they are finally coming into themselves. Of course Tom Seyvetz hasn’t updated his web site in years. He donates a horse to the Old Dominion every year and he brought us a video of this year’s filly. I wasn’t impressed with the still photo of this filly. But the video changed my mind. Part of the video showed a large herd of 2 yr olds galloping around a field. Like 20 of them, just the 2 yr olds. Again, you have to be used to looking a young Arabs and most people aren’t, so they don’t like what they see.

Bonnie

[Icecapade]

davenport breeder in SoCal used to be in the arab race world… she used to be really into it but due to health has really pulled back… she still has her stallion though I believe and a half sister to my stallion.

[Kyzteke]

[QUOTE=chicamuxen1;3887808]
I’ve learned something about young Arabians. They can look like crap when they are young. The round bulky Crabbet types might look a bit better as 2 yr olds, the leaner, flatter, racing lines can just look so unimpressive. And photos! OMG, they just look so poor in a still photo. Then, go look at them moving, in a video, live horse flesh and then you see the promise. Once they are 4-5 years old they are finally coming into themselves. Of course Tom Seyvetz hasn’t updated his web site in years. He donates a horse to the Old Dominion every year and he brought us a video of this year’s filly. I wasn’t impressed with the still photo of this filly. But the video changed my mind. Part of the video showed a large herd of 2 yr olds galloping around a field. Like 20 of them, just the 2 yr olds. Again, you have to be used to looking a young Arabs and most people aren’t, so they don’t like what they see.

Bonnie[/QUOTE]

Well, these photos (currently on the website) were of 3 year old fillies, so by that time you expect them to look semi-ok <g>.

Last fall I was at Belesemo Arabs and looked at dozens of their horses (all PB Arabs) from age 6 month on up. Obviously, there were those I liked better than others, but I have to say none were as “plain” as the fillies pictured on the Asgard site.

But they are vastly different lines. “Purpose bred” horses, even purebreds, often don’t have alot of breed type because that’s not what they are bred for…they are bred to excel at one specific thing. I find that especially true of the French racing Arabs.

However, when all is said and done, I totally agree with you about the movement. That is MOST important to me. Akhal Tekes are considered pretty darn ugly by many, but there have been very few people who aren’t impressed when they see my stallion (Kinor) move out.

Check it out (video ends after the jumping sequence):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euh2RLP-NDE

Mostly he’s acting like a goober, but you can see afew good steps. Can’t WAIT to see what he produces with the B. Arab mares! And I picked all chestnuts, so the foals will all be palominos.

Someday I hope to go out to Asgard and see their stock…I would buy a “plain” horse in a heartbeat if it had the movement I like.

[Romantic_Rider]

Thanks so much for all your replies. I still haven’t made up my mind. :winkgrin: I like the size and conformation of the Egyptian mare, and her sire is also the sire of a fantastic endurance horse I know. But I also like the looks of the two race mares. They are lovely, balanced horses, and already know the ropes. Unfortunately, I haven’t seen any of them move. Thank you all for your opinions, and I’ll let you know what I decide. If I can ever make up my mind.

Wow, those Asgard fillies are ugly. I don’t mean to offend anyone, and I’ve heard so much about the Asgard horses. But, I’ve always thought Heraldic was ugly too. Obviously looks aren’t everything. Nevertheless, I don’t see why a horse can’t be pretty and functional at the same time.

[chicamuxen1]

You don’t ride the head. I’ve always been really turned off by the extreme “Arab” head that was bread for in this country, looks distorted and weird but Americans are notorious for breeding for all the wrong traits.

chicamuxen

[Shadow14]

[QUOTE=ch![](camuxen1;3893103]
You don’t ride the head. I’ve always been really turned off by the extreme “Arab” head that was bread for in this country, looks distorted and weird but Americans are notorious for breeding for all the wrong traits.

chicamuxen[/QUOTE]

My guy has one of those extreme arab heads and I find it appealing.
[IMG]http://i39.tinypic.com/2iw0f28.jpg)

[matryoshka]

I like a straighter profile than most people. You’ve gotta have an eye for how a horse matures if you want to buy a youngster. Ugly youngsters can mature into gorgeous adults, and vice versa. I had a foal go champion at the MD state fair only to turn into an ugly adult. Luckily, he had a fun disposition.

A local endurance rider I know only buys OTA’s for endurance. They’re already broke and have a good work ethic.

My caution would be disposition–I’ve seen some real nuts come off the track that never seemed quite right in the head. I’ve talked to some race horse people about it, and they think that racing Arabs are generally not treated well at the track. Before anybody flames me, the reason given is that a some of the grooms, stable people, and exercise riders prefer TB’s, don’t quite understand the Arab temperament, and are therefore harsh with them. Just something to think about. The lady I know who takes them off the track for endurance absolutely loves ex-racers, so she obviously would disagree with what I have just said.

Regardless, I’d inspect all joints carefully and ask to have flexion tests done by a vet. Would it be possible to arrange for a vet to visit the horses and give them a soundness once-over, possibly even rads of major joints? I’d do this if I were buying an OTTB for serious performance goals, so why not a racing Arab? A little more money spent now can save you a lot of money and heartache down the road. Even if the purchase price is cheap, dealing with lameness is not.

JMHO.

[chicamuxen1]

Shadow, I’d call your horse’s head more typical than extreme. He has what most people think of when they think Arabian. But there are many, many horses, lot’s of the racing lines that have a straighter profile. I’ve got a background with TB’s and have a preference for clean, straighter profiles.

Bonnie

[mysaygrace]

Not to be too far off topic here, but I totally understand what you mean when you say straighter profile, my mare is SE (bred thru the nose, been told I shouldn’t ride her that she should be a brood mare because of her bloodlines, but I feel that’s no life for MY horse). She was a halter horse before I bought her (unfortunately), I think this is where part of her underlying trust issues come from & why she’s so reactive. Anyway when we go places some people have asked if she’s a mustang, quarter horse or even a thoroughbred because she doesn’t have a dishy head, it always makes me laugh, because the woman I bought her from just thinks the world of halter SE arabs. I remember before I bought my mare from her I wasn’t allowed to use combs or brushes on the tail or mane, had to use fingers only, she treats them like princesses. My horse is sooooo much happier living out 24/7 with her bushy haphazd muddy coat, tail & mane & booging down the trail than parading around all slicked up for show. Good luck deciding & keep us posted! And as far as beauty goes, beauty is in the eye of the beholder! I’d much rather have brains than beauty any day, jmo.