Exercises to "condense" canter with Greenbean

I wanted to say ‘collect’, but I knew that might misconstrue what I am struggling with. I have a young green horse at home, we see an instructor monthly when she is able to visit the facility. In a perfect world she would come more often. Horse is W/T/C, we have been working on contact and he goes super at W/T but at the C loses connection and gets resistant.

I would love some tips on helping me help my guy. He has a very big canter and tends to get strung out and flat, and if left uncorrected will dirtbike in one direction around the steep side of our arena. Our arena is actually an unused pasture, it is not super flat. He does not rush, but his stride is very long and I have a hard time getting him to condense his stride in a way he understands. He is still very green and is learning half-halts, we only just started cantering in October but stopped once it started to snow as we do not have an indoor. I have been doing small sequences of canter between four to five strides and bringing him back to a trot, but this gets repetitive and he starts to anticipate the transitions. If I condense too much he breaks to a trot. I know part of it will get better once he strengthens up. This seems like a balance issue, both his and mine, as I tend to want to lean forward and get out of his face when I know he needs my support every stride.

it sounds to be like you need to be going more forward and not less, honestly. he sounds like he is getting bogged down trying to slow down which he is not ready to do at this point. keep him straight and kick him forward and see how he goes. Make sure you are keeping his neck straight in particular.

Then you can start to ride inside leg to outside hand (steady contact) and ask him to get his hind end underneath himself. ride back to front. put the horse on a big/giant circle, keep his neck straight, keep your inside leg on and just let him get used to it a bit at a time.

Remember to keep everything steady and quiet, they can’t balance if you are doing a bunch of stuff up there. :slight_smile:

Two things helped my guy (5 this year, started under saddle april 2015, narrow weedy arab fella) learn to gather himself up into a canter that is ‘more ready’ to do things. Your issue does sound kind of like a strength/balance problem similar to what I had, so maybe what I did will help you.

Thing 1: March your horse up and down hills at a solidly clippity cloppity walk on a fairly sloppy loose rein. Biggish, steepish hills. Hills that you don’t really want to walk up. Those hills. (Start with one up/down, build gradually to doing several repeats every time you ride him. This is Hard Work for your horse and he’ll need a few months to build up the muscles and balance he needs to do a good job at this work.) On the uphill, you want a flat walk on a sloppy loose rein, with his head low. You want to feel him pushing hard with his hinds, in a good rhythm. The reins should swing back and forth, visibly, as he marches. Don’t let him jig or trot or go pell-mell downhill. (If he does, halt and have him back several steps with his butt pointing straight up the hill. Then give him back the reins and have him try again. Take the time it takes to do it right.) Hill marches are a low-impact, low-stress way to engage the “ring of muscles” a horse needs for a more gathered-up canter or collected dressage-y work. It’s not an exact perfect fit, but it’s close enough to really help while also being an exercise that’s pretty hard to do incorrectly. Building up the ring of muscles with flat work requires rider skill, but hill marches – the hill will never “ride him wrong” or let him phone it in. The hill is actually a pretty good trainer – very fair, never misses a correction, always demands good work. So, do hill marches, up and down.

Thing 2: Practice rating the canter. I like a very slight uphill or a flat piece of ground for this, with good footing and buckets of room. A hayfield after it’s been cut is ideal if you have that (get permission and check your flight path for holes first). Pick up your canter for like ten strides, then ask to extend it a bit (get a real change in pace, lean forward a hair, apply some leg, click to him, whatever), for like ten strides, then rock your shoulders back, sit up, ask him to “come back” into your hands and canter a little slower and more “gathered up” (like a ‘for jumps’ canter if you know what that feels like) again. You want him to stay cantering, not to break to trot, but get a real change both up AND down in the cantering. The idea here is to introduce the idea of rating the canter… that just like trot and walk, it can go gathered up or more-forward. It came as a shock to me to learn what should be obvious: you have to practice adjustability in canter just like you do in walk and trot. Initially, your two different canters just look “faster” and “slower” – they’re not going to stay that way, but if you can get visible changes of speed to start with, you are on the right track. Keep working on it, always with “start slow, extend, come back to me” pattern… and at least for my guy, the ‘come back to me’ is more “I sit up straighter and more sit-y, take a little of the leg off” than it is a hauling on the reins. Seriously, it’s postural and not hands. If your horse is quite forward, I find this drill works best on a warm, humid day when the horse has been thoroughly warmed up with other activities first. You want him to have to work hard at the “go fast” part and to want to slow down because that will make your job easier.

Also, if he jumps (even tiny x rails) at all, you can use the ‘come back to me’ adjustments (referred to above) for a “hey, dude, we’re aiming at jumps, might want to get yourself ready” cue, too. If he does not jump yet, a series of canter poles on the ground might also help him learn to round up a little in canter. (I thought canter poles would be harder, but they are not. Measure and set them up ahead of time and just… seriously, just do it. Not endlessly, a couple of run-throughs a day is fine.)

Thank you both for your replies.

I am an ex-TB exercise rider, so my go-to position is an unobtrustive 2-point, which is what I tend to do when I feel the canter get choppy and unbalanced. I don’t get away with this in lessons! My instructor during lessons thinks his canter pace is good, but that we need to shorten his stride as he gets long and on the forehand. I need to work on keeping my upper body straight. He is rarely behind the leg.

Fortunately hills are in no short supply here, I live in a valley and he is turned out on a hill. He’s got plenty of hill mileage on his belt at this point and is very well muscled. He was kept in work at the walk in the winter and was only on trails, and the months of Jan-March were spent only trail riding at marching pace. Our trails are hilly and we have markers every mile; an average trail ride for us is 3.5-4 miles.

I suspect it is largely a balance issue, converting from open expanse rides to a ring. He is a large horse and can canter all day at the pace he wants, but it is on the forehand. I tend to make the issue worse by backing off so I do need work on being more assertive in what I expect out of him.

I do like the idea of asking for different tempos within the gait. I have been so focused on quality and purity of the rhythm that I admit I have been slacking in that regard.

Horse in question is an ex-TB and a successful one at that, so it’s not like he hasn’t cantered before. He’s been with me for 2.5 years, I gave him the first 8 months off, started re-training him in the fall, gave him winter off, spent a year hacking, in the fall started doing real work in the ring, winter was back to hacking and now we are back to ring work.

We do jump occasionally but I am really hammering down him being 100% solid on the flat before I move onto schooling fences in the ring.

You wrote: "If I condense too much he breaks to a trot. I know part of it will get better once he strengthens up, " which is why I too was going to suggest hill work and greater fitness like the other poster, but you say the horse is hill fit and well legged up.

I can’t remember the exact details (and no time to look up right now), but I read in How Your Horse Moves that horses use different parts of their hind ends differently in the trot and the canter, which was revelatory to me and helps remind me that I need to canter to get a horse fit for cantering, to put it simply.

The horse I ride is fit and trained but lazy and I would point out that if I get caught cantering in two-point with not enough leg, he will happily break into a trot. If I’m sitting up and have plenty of leg on this is easily avoided.

Finally the other thought that I had is that this horse might benefit from proper cavaletti (raised) canter poles set to a bounce stride: won’t be able to go on forehand and get strung out, i.e., won’t be able to take the lazy way out! Good luck

I have found that lunging helps with this sort.

you don’t say how old the horse is but most benefit from spiraling in and out on a circle. Circles are hard work and so a young horse will find larger circles easier.

Oh yeah, don’t forget that rhythm and suppleness come before contact on the scales of training.

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Saddle fit issues are often first, or most, apparent in the canter because both hind legs swing forward together and so the horse’s back rounds up more in canter than in other gaits. If there is any issue with the saddle that makes rounding up uncomfortable you get a horse that is flat and rushy in the canter at the mild end of the spectrum, or with more severe issues you get no canter at all or bucking. So maybe just try a few different saddles and observe whether it makes a difference for better or worse.

Some great advice, thanks posters! I worked yesterday on varying the stride lengths at walk and trot, he was great. I also spent more time actually doing walk/halt and figure eight/patterns at the walk. Our canter seemed much improved when I worried more over keeping him straight than keeping him round. I have spent so long working on maintaining a good rhythm that I have not worked on varying it or changing stride lengths. He is an OTTB and during our earlier stages of training was very prone to being much too forward. Now we have the right rhythm but the contact is still not always there.

What I am trying to do at the canter is shorten his stride as he tends to string out at the canter. Once I let him string out he will get choppy, on the forehand and tense. Part of it is the hard pasture footing and uneven sides, when we school in a dressage ring he is very soft and willing. In my lessons I have never been told to go more forward by my instructor, as he is a forward ride and has tons of impulsion. My instructor was having us work on trot-canter transitions (3-5 strides) working on maintaining the quality of the rhythm and channeling his energy into the contact. When I have asked him to shorten his stride at the canter there is sometimes a mix-up of signals, my timing isn’t perfect and he does break to a trot. This is something I am working on.

His saddle was last fitted to him six months ago but I am sure he could use a check-up. I’ve added that to my to do list. He has never bucked or bolted with me.

Winding Down, any exercises for lunging? He goes well in side-reins and is great on the lunge but I miss the riding time.

OP, have you worked him in a Pessoa system? I found it helps my TB tremendously, who sounds very similar to yours. He has an amazing canter, but packaging it is…a challenge. With his on/off lameness issues getting him balanced enough to really sit and lift his back at the canter has been hard.

I am very, very picky about how my horse goes in the Pessoa. I do not just let him go round and round, leaning, in a false frame. I have the butt rope snug but the lines connecting butt rope to the bit are fairly loose so he is not forced into a frame. They are short enough that if he tries to be a giraffe it’s unpleasant, but he has room for error. I also insist that he not lean and stay on the forehand. I only do a few minutes, with lots of trot transitions, since it is hard for him. ETA - I will try to dig up an old thread that had before and after pics of my horse. I buckled down and used the Pessoa 3x a week, hacking 2-3 times, for about a month and it made a big difference. I missed riding but it was very, very effective. I try to incorporate the Pessoa 1x a week now. Here’s the thread.

Alternatively, if you don’t have or don’t use a Pessoa, have you ever long lined him? I don’t get the same result as the Pessoa, but having a line behind their butt can really help them use it instead of letting it get disconnected.

Often using raised canter poles both on a straight line and a circle can help them to develop a stronger canter and more fitness at the canter.

Good transitions really help strengthen the canter. Get yourself a nice steady “under himself” trot, and ask from that for your upward canter transition, when you come to the downward, hold him together til you get that nice trot back. Repeat, repeat, then when you feel he is ready, hold your canter slow with your hips keeping legs on for a stride or three, then let him out, repeat, repeat and then go do something else.

And don’t forget the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8690983]
Good transitions really help strengthen the canter. Get yourself a nice steady “under himself” trot, and ask from that for your upward canter transition, when you come to the downward, hold him together til you get that nice trot back. Repeat, repeat, then when you feel he is ready, hold your canter slow with your hips keeping legs on for a stride or three, then let him out, repeat, repeat and then go do something else.

And don’t forget the horse does all the work, we just sit there and look pretty. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

I just wanted to update with our progress… the canter is unrecognizable. I took some of the advice here and also worked on straight, straight, straight. I also worked on transitions; half a circle canter, half a circle trot, change direction, rinse and repeat. My trainer worked with me as well and pointed out I was letting him get too quick and “dirtbike”, so I worked on downward transitions coming off the circle down the long-side. It was so much work for me too, I definitely noticed some habits I’ve made that are bad. Huge difference in the horse’s canter now, now it’s me that needs fixin’!

So, if anyone comes upon this thread in the distant future:

  1. Keeping the rhythm
  2. Keeping straightness
  3. Transitions O’Plenty
  4. More bend to inside, more rider weight to outside
  5. Changes of direction and transitions often

[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8684340]
it sounds to be like you need to be going more forward and not less, honestly. he sounds like he is getting bogged down trying to slow down which he is not ready to do at this point. keep him straight and kick him forward and see how he goes. Make sure you are keeping his neck straight in particular.

Then you can start to ride inside leg to outside hand (steady contact) and ask him to get his hind end underneath himself. ride back to front. put the horse on a big/giant circle, keep his neck straight, keep your inside leg on and just let him get used to it a bit at a time.

Remember to keep everything steady and quiet, they can’t balance if you are doing a bunch of stuff up there. :)[/QUOTE]

This.

As they get stronger, I have slowly introduced the “numbers”. I think of the canter as having gears, say 1-8 - with 8 being fairly forward and extended.

So I slowly over time work within those numbers- mostly staying in the 4-6 range until they get stronger both mentally and physically.

Plus the basics mentioned already - hills, tiny jumps, poles, canter the pole, etc.

I have found that a slight outside bend, then straight, then inside bend, mix that up, seems to help - though not in too quick succession.

Good luck!