Exercises to improve (what I think is) a subtly moving lower leg?

[alternate_universe]

I am currently hacking and lessoning on a large five-year-old gelding. He is significantly bigger than what I’ve been used to over the years so there has certainly been a learning curve over the past couple months. He’s probably around 17.1 and I’m 5’11, so he’s not literally too big for me, just more horse than I’m used to.

Recently, I and one of the trainers I lesson with have noticed an issue when cantering to the right. He will start swapping his lead as we are countering around the whole ring. He is not counter bent and I am certain I am not intentionally asking for it. His changes are extremely easy for him. I am still working on learning how to keep him balanced and moving uphill. I took my spurs off during the last ride and the lead changing was reduced but not totally eliminated, which leads me to believe it’s something I’m doing with my legs.

I believe he’s quiet enough for me to do some no stirrups work at the trot. Not sure about cantering, but maybe. During my last ride I hypothesized that perhaps in my efforts to keep my torso more upright and tall during the canter I am using my legs ti brace off of his body or the stirrups in someway that is bumping him.

Any suggestions for exercises I can do while riding or at the gym?

[merrygoround]

Work on strengthening your core muscles. Besides that spending time in the saddle in two point will help stabilize your lower leg. The combination will help.

I suspect you are either lightly shifting your weigh (core) and/or bumping with an unstable leg.

[alternate_universe]

@merrygoround

I suspect you are either lightly shifting your weigh (core) and/or bumping with an unstable leg.

I’m wondering about weight shifting or the angle that my hips are pointing as well. When traveling to the left my left foot has a tendency to lift up somehow and lose the start up. I don’t feel like I’m pulling up at the knee but I know in the past I had a previous trainer told me that she thought it was the result of my hips not being straight. Interesting that it’s happening going the opposite direction though.

It’s so different how much I have to RIDE this horse. Been my height, riding smaller horses feels more like riding “on” them. Riding big horses feels like riding “around them”.

[SolarFlare]

If I’m understanding correctly, your left leg tends to lift up? If you’re cantering right, and your left leg lifts (which will shift your weight to the right) you might be cuing a lead change. You might not realize that left leg is weighted less since you’re travelling in the opposite direction. You might also be twisting a little bit to the left with the weight shift.

Mine would occasionally swap behind when cantering left (coming out of the short end) - it was due to me being crooked, which caused me to lose his hindquarters. Since I’ve become conscious of it, and have been working hard to be straighter, it’s disappeared.

[alternate_universe]

@SolarFlare

If I’m understanding correctly, your left leg tends to lift up? If you’re cantering right, and your left leg lifts (which will shift your weight to the right) you might be cuing a lead change. You might not realize that left leg is weighted less since you’re travelling in the opposite direction. You might also be twisting a little bit to the left with the weight shift.

Mine would occasionally swap behind when cantering left (coming out of the short end) - it was due to me being crooked, which caused me to lose his hindquarters. Since I’ve become conscious of it, and have been working hard to be straighter, it’s disappeared.

How were you addressing being straighter? Like body straight vertically? Hips pointing straight ahead?

[Against_All_Odds1]

I am in lessons for this now. Its complete back to basics to get you riding off your seat and NOT your feet. I am doing no stirrup w/t lessons, lounge line lessons, and the old “UP, UP, Down” posting trot. Humbling lol

[SolarFlare]

@alternate_universe

How were you addressing being straighter? Like body straight vertically? Hips pointing straight ahead?

I should clarify that both my horse and I were crooked, so it was a double-whammy of crookedness

We’ve done a lot of dressage to get him moving straighter, but I had to really concentrate (still do) on keeping my body straight on top of him (ie. even weight in both seatbones unless I’m specifically trying to weight one more). In my case, I was basically trying to put my right seatbone off to the right side (when travelling left) to get his body under me rather than him dropping the shoulder left and his body following. Clearly this did not work and I ended up twisting. I have to think about putting weight into my right seatbone, no matter where his body is, and then use leg to move him further right (which is straight). I hope I’m explaining clearly - I am trying to make sure I’m straight and square in the hips first, then I can use my weight and leg to move him where I need him, instead of twisting in an effort to get him under me. I tend to put more weight in my left seatbone generally.

As well, I have a great RMT and certified athletic therapist who I see every few months. Recently I explained my hip/pelvis crookedness issues to him (no idea why I didn’t sooner as I’ve been going to him for years). He helped me stretch out hip adductors/abductors/flexors/glutes/hamstrings as I’m really tight, as are many riders. He also sent me exercises I can do at home to help.

[alternate_universe]

@Against*All*Odds

I am in lessons for this now. Its complete back to basics to get you riding off your seat and NOT your feet. I am doing no stirrup w/t lessons, lounge line lessons, and the old “UP, UP, Down” posting trot. Humbling lol

Can you elaborate? What exactly are you “in lessons for”? Body straightness? Tighter lower leg?

[Against_All_Odds1]

@alternate_universe

Can you elaborate? What exactly are you “in lessons for”? Body straightness? Tighter lower leg?

All of it? I twist my body left and my right hip/seat and leg are significantly stronger. So strong, my trainer has me seeing a chiropractor. The no stirrup lessons make me use my seat evenly or I’ll twist right out of the saddle. The line lessons allow me to use my upper body to reach- up, down, towards my trainer- to keep me centered in the saddle while not worrying about steering. Up, up, down strengthens your core.

[RAyers]

I fix this in my students by hiking up the stirrups to the point where they are almost jockey like and then make them gallop in a field until it is finally comfortable. then they can lengthen the stirrups back. It is amazing how much strength you can develop in your core and leg by doing this.

Then they lengthen the stirrup to dressage (no heels down!) and get to focus on their pelvis and how that is situated in the saddle. Is it tilted? Is it shifted left or right? And we work on that.

Then the regular work is at least once or twice a week, they have to have short or long stirrups.

As lots of old folks say, you should be stable in the saddle with your stirrups ranging at least 6 holes.

[alternate_universe]

@RAyers

I fix this in my students by hiking up the stirrups to the point where they are almost jockey like and then make them gallop in a field until it is finally comfortable. then they can lengthen the stirrups back. It is amazing how much strength you can develop in your core and leg by doing this.

Then they lengthen the stirrup to dressage (no heels down!) and get to focus on their pelvis and how that is situated in the saddle. Is it tilted? Is it shifted left or right? And we work on that.

Then the regular work is at least once or twice a week, they have to have short or long stirrups.

As lots of old folks say, you should be stable in the saddle with your stirrups ranging at least 6 holes.

Ha!

Unfortunately galloping outside in any form isn’t an option between this horse’s training level and the current footing/weather situation. Would you advise shortening the stirrups if it means my knee coming off the saddle? I’m using a borrowed Antares in which the seat fits fine and my knee is good where it is now. If I shorten my stirrups multiple holes my knee will definitely be going off the front.

[comingback]

You say this horse is only five. Is it possible he is also weaker on one side and swapping as a result? I went through a phase of this with my youngster. I am also crooked, so it didn’t help, but the swapping would happen with other riders as well. We ended up doing a lot of work to strengthen his weaker hind leg.

[OldLadyYoungOTTB]

I struggle w/ keeping my lower leg back and still and for me, it’s all core related. It seems extreme that he’d be swapping due to your lower leg movement though.

[alternate_universe]

@comingback

You say this horse is only five. Is it possible he is also weaker on one side and swapping as a result? I went through a phase of this with my youngster. I am also crooked, so it didn’t help, but the swapping would happen with other riders as well. We ended up doing a lot of work to strengthen his weaker hind leg.

I wondered this as well. He is young and has had time off through no fault of his own. Is there a definitive way to assess for this? If I think he is doing do due to weakness, how do I correct it and/avoid letting him swap in the first place?

[RAyers]

Young, growing horses are always asymmetric. They will have different balance issues day to day. To assess this means you need to have genuine connection between you and the horse (seat, legs, hand) and you need to have a feel for what the correct balance is for a horse. Not easy.

Correction comes from strenghtening the back end and topline. This comes from time and proper work. My babies have always been given years to develop under saddle starting from when they are 3-4. I don’t expect a truly capable balance horse until they are 6. And that is if I intend for them to be sound for a lifetime.

To the stirrup question, when I am in gallop mode my knees are off the front of the saddle (I’m 5’6") because my hip has to compensate by going back. And that is how short I will set my stirrups. My dressage length is then 6-7 holes longer.

[alternate_universe]

Okay. Sounds like I will experiment with shortening my stirrups and do some no stirrup work as well.

[comingback]

@alternate_universe

I wondered this as well. He is young and has had time off through no fault of his own. Is there a definitive way to assess for this? If I think he is doing do due to weakness, how do I correct it and/avoid letting him swap in the first place?

I would lose his haunches to the outside and he would swap behind. It was SUPER subtle. In fact, many times little ammy me did not feel it until it happened and realized that I was suddenly cross cantering. You could feel and see it when he jumped as well…he didn’t want to push off the one hind leg as much.

I spent much of this year working on his strength behind. Lots of circles with both counter and true bend, square corners at the canter that forced him to rock back and push off the outside hind. A lot of lateral work as well. On course, I would focus on keeping him on a true bend and make sure I pushed with my outside leg. It’s been many months, and I think we are finally evening out!

[retiredhorse]

You can also try dropping just one stirrup on a 20m circle, or lunge line, at the posting trot. Drop the outside stirrup and see if you can keep your inside leg on your horse, and if you can stay centered and effective. Then go the other way. You’ll probably notice a big difference with the weaker leg and more crooked side. This is a way to check if you’re developing your muscles evenly or in the middle of the horse. And you can incorporate this with dropping both stirrups and other exercises.

When I was crooked – left hip slightly in front of the right one, left leg off the horse, compensating by riding off right rein, right leg also not super effective but having horse come around right leg was always easier for me – this was difficult, more so than dropping both stirrups. Lunge line lessons with a trainer who was a stickler for balance and straightness really helped, so did general, every day no stirrup work. Also hiking up the stirrups (although more for my tendency to jump ahead), and trotting 3’6 jumps.

You might find as you get stronger/straighter and horse goes better one way, he might feel like he’s swapped his “good” direction. That’s pretty normal for young horses too. An easy way to tell if it’s him or you, if perhaps his way of going is making you sit crooked or you’re influencing him to travel crookedly, is to put another rider (who does understand balance and straightness) on him and see what they feel. Or see what happens if you sit on a different horse and whether you have the same or similar issue(s).

[MintHillFarm]

I was going to mention shortening your stirrups as well. A longer stirrup can produce a looser leg. By raising your irons a hole or 2, and thus closing the angle behind your knee, may help steady your leg.

[hannahfm22]

Doing lots of no stirrups and stand for 3 sit for 1 at the trot!