Exercises to teach and improve jumper turns

[cswoodlandfairy]

I am spending the winter working on more technical stuff with my ottb for the Jumper ring. Remi has a heart of gold and smart as a whip, but easily gets frustrated when he doesn’t understand and shuts down. (War horse mentality of gotta be perfect and right). He is incredibly athletic.

So a weak spot in our courses are sharp turns like roll backs and such. He is bold to the fences and has no stop but going to the left bulges bad with his right shoulder, which on course loses time. He is far better to the right, but both need work. What kind of exercises do you use to help teach and improve these turns?

I’ve been working on bend and counter bend and he is decent at both, but still working on. I think a previous riders used too much leg in the past and he’s a bit dull but he’s getting better.

Any pointers would be great!

TIA!

[bamboopole]

An exercise I remember from my Hunterdon days (I use it with my kids now): Set up a 5-stride line, low and simple.
Jump the line in 5, land, turn right or left, with minimal turn, back to the first jump (now jumped backwards). We were told to do a figure-of-eight like this. In mid air you should be thinking of the gallop to the next jump.
Then we jump the line in 4, turn, etc.
Then in 6.
Lots of opening rein, turning in mid air.
It was a fun exercise, especially when the jumps got challenging, like liverpools and light rails.

[mvp]

Just got back from a weekend spent soaking in George Morris.

Flatwork, baby. Your problem is to be able to control “all four corners,” that is to say, to be able to put the horse’s hips and shoulders where you want 'em.

GM spent a lot of time with the (very good) jumpers doing shoulder fore (not a lot of angle, certainly not lots of bend in the neck, but going for bend or angle in the rib cage). That could be on a long side or on a circle. The shoulder fore always preceded a haunches in, but he did that too and for the same reason.

The most remarkable idea I took away from that weekend was that lateral flexibility (as well as collection) begins in the hind end. So did a great deal with “arranging” the horse’s shoulders and hips with respect to one another. Even after a rider finished a course and was doing a courtesy circle, he recommended schooling the horse a bit here. The horse would be allowed to canter along, relaxing after his jumping effort, but he still might be asked for some shoulder fore or haunches in on that circle.

As you already know (because you point out that you are losing your horse’s right shoulder), the purpose of all this is to keep the body in line. So you have to practice keeping the horse’s hips ahead of his shoulders on the flat and make it natural/usual for him to allow you to position his body as you’d like.

You could spend a very productive winter doing this!

[ladyj79]

Collection and elevation. Mvp is spot on, you have to do the flat work. With our show jumpers we do lots of dressage.

Work on asking the horse to sit.

In trot, ask for elevation ie pick his head up. We do reverse turns in trot and canter, spiral in and out on the circle, leg yield and shoulder in/out, eventually canter pirouettes.

Anything that builds strength behind and makes your horse more responsive and flexible.

Change your horse’s shape and head position will help a lot. Short collected canter to gallop and then back. This is really hard for horses who don’t know how to sit.

It is a process.

[mychestnutvalentine]

Just had a clinic with Dom Schramm. My mare sounds just like yours. Athletic OTTB with killer jump but overly athletic and gets frustrated? That’s my mare! The weekend before the clinic I did the 3 ft jumpers at an open HJ show. The turns were our issue.

Doms advice- gymnastics. Fighting for collection was counterproductive. He didnt want me cantering around trying to fight for her to slow into a collected canter. Doing low bounces and one strides helped built the collection and strength with the horse and the rider can just be there to support. He wanted me to do them 1-2 a week, one day more challenging than the next. Obviously don’t jump your horses legs off. He wanted this to be applied to dressage training. He called it “physics” where the math is applied versus straight math.

We also did a clover leaf gymnastics where we landed on the correct lead. You open your rein over the fence. The jumps were low.

[mychestnutvalentine]

I can post videos if you would like .

[NancyM]

Spirals. In and out. With inside bend, and outside bend. AKA “Death spirals” LOL. This will get you control of the quarters and the shoulder. Don’t do them for too long, don’t “overdo” them. When you think you have the influence you need on hind end and shoulder, at the canter, proceed to trying the canter pirouette. It may not be great, it may not satisfy a dressage judge. But it will get you the turns you need in a jump off.

[MissingASock]

Everything that has been posted so far is great advice! Flat work is where everything starts.
A great flat work work-out we do in the winter (because we have a very small indoor is we set up poles that will look like this;

        | |
      =   =
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(Obviously the horizontal ones are not so squished…haha) Basically it’s 8 poles that make a cross but don’t touch and the idea here is you’re not allowed to have a straight line or go past poles. So if you’re travelling left and come to the middle of the cross you must turn left or right, you are always on one quarter and that’s it. Hopefully I’ve explained that right.
Carry a dressage whip with you and since he’s a little dead on the leg and bulges with the shoulder use that as a reminder on the outside aids to let let him fall out.

[Feliz]

Hehe, he sounds like C when I got him – would jump absolutely anything he was pointed at and would just gallop boldly onwards on the backside of fences with no thought to turning. I started taking him to a jumper trainer who has high expectations, a ring full of jumps and very precise instructions about the lines we had to take . . .

Firstly, flight check – are my eyes up where I want to go ALL the time? (Constant work in progress for me.) Am I secure in the tack? Is he into my outside rein? Will he move off my leg – hindquarters & shoulders?

Lots of good advice up thread about flatwork. In terms of exercises, this is what has been helpful for me:
Warming up with small canter circles around jumps – down to 10-15m. Horse must stay light & up in front, rider must look where they are going & keep shoulders up! This was also very useful to slow him down & rock him back without having to pull when he used to get tanky in the early days.

I love what I used to call The Circle of Death, but now think of as our regular warm-up – a small fence/raised cavaletti, cantered over on a 20m circle. This took us a long time to get good at – even pace, correct bend, actual circle shape, a nice take off spot.

Thinking about it – it’s all in the visual cues for me. Else I will just drift aimlessly around the arena/paddock, merrily thinking that I’m doing a good job while executing beautiful 30m blob shapes. I also think that it makes it easier for the horse – it’s very clear why you are asking them to turn, else you are going to crash into a the backside of another jump.

[cswoodlandfairy]

Thank you all!

I have been working on inside/outside bend and hes a champ at that now. I started doing the spiraling circles and at the trot can do a poor version of a pirouette and a close call at the canter, but still needs improvement.

I’ve been doing a lot of things that involve getting him use to leg aid as he got dull to it but is really understanding what it means now. Hes a VERY quick study.

So another thing would be to add jumps. Lately on the flat he really gets it and follows through well. Still a work in progress but moving along. With jumps, especially the 3’6+ variety that is when we lose that ability (more than likely more fault of rider since horse can obviously turn). So any ides tips for that?

Hopefully you can see the link to the video taken the other day…

https://www.facebook.com/lisa.w.flynn/videos/pcb.1548745878475665/1548744238475829/?type=3&theater

[longtimelurker]

[QUOTE=cswoodlandfairy;8981343]
Thank you all!

I have been working on inside/outside bend and hes a champ at that now. I started doing the spiraling circles and at the trot can do a poor version of a pirouette and a close call at the canter, but still needs improvement.

I’ve been doing a lot of things that involve getting him use to leg aid as he got dull to it but is really understanding what it means now. Hes a VERY quick study.

So another thing would be to add jumps. Lately on the flat he really gets it and follows through well. Still a work in progress but moving along. With jumps, especially the 3’6+ variety that is when we lose that ability (more than likely more fault of rider since horse can obviously turn). So any ides tips for that?

Hopefully you can see the link to the video taken the other day…

https://www.facebook.com/lisa.w.flynn/videos/pcb.1548745878475665/1548744238475829/?type=3&theater[/QUOTE]

Not a pro by any means, but looks like your horse needs a little help turning from your outside aids – rather than carrying his weight on his inside shoulder through the turns. Lots of great advice regarding flat work here!

When you’re flatting, through the turns, try turning with as little inside rein as possible – maybe with an outside bearing rein (or even direct for a stride or so) and outside leg. Try to “close the door” on the outside of his body.

Shoulder fore has been super, super helpful for me for getting horses’ weights to the outside a little more. Think of “filling up” the outside rein.

Lots of leg yielding (without getting overbent) and half pass when you’re ready!

You guys look great though and your horse looks like a blast to jump!

[ladyj79]

Do you ever do hard stops after the fence? Say six or right strides out, stop hard, back up, canter off.

Most fei jumpers I know really have this in their tool box for a horse who might run through aids or not respect leg.

You can also do this minus sans jumps, as I do with these same horses. Active sitting trot serpentine witb halts on centerline, back, trot on. And at canter, halt, back, canter depart. Anything that gets the horse rocking back.

But the hard stop exercise after fences is a pretty standard training technique.

[Dressage_Strider]

Flatwork - Spiral in and out w,t,c
once successful, continue spiraling, but switch back and forth from inside bend to outside bend.

Then continue spiraling and do shoulder fore and then haunches in and out on the spirals.

Problem fixed, but it’s not going to happen anywhere close to overnight.

[KandC]

Based on your video, I would say flatwork should bring it all together rather than drilling fences and turns. He really drifts out through his first turn.

Flatwork: spirals, leg yield/haunches in/shoulder in especially at the canter, lengthening and shortening the stride. Try to focus on using your legs and seat to do 80% of the turning/bending, since you want to keep the power in the hind end. You don’t look incredibly reliant on your hands in the video, but closing your leg and sitting slightly deeper will help keep him collect up. You want to encourage your horse to collect and compact through the turns, but not lose impulsion. Anything that builds a horse’s flexibility and responsiveness and teaches them to rock back and sit on their hind.

Over fences: set up the fences as a square, You’ll have four jumps with a bounce/1-stride in the middle- practice going through and turning to hit the perpendicular fence. Set up the fences in a straight line so you have 6 or so in a row. Practice jumping either end fence on a large circle, then jump every 3rd fence in a serpentine, then every other in a serpentine.

[greysfordays]

I agree with other posters, I think you are getting too much neck bend and not enough bend through the rib cage. To fix that, your horse needs to be much straighter in his neck when you do spirals. I did the clinic with George Morris and he talked about the stiffness in the neck but the flexibility in the ribs as being essential to turning straight (i.e. keeping the horse on two tracks through the turn).

[phoenixrises]

Squares a whole bunch of squares. Walk, trot and then canter. do 20m squares where you get to the end and do turn on the haunches, horse stays completley straight and the shoulder just come around. Trot same thing. Canter you’ll think almost a canter pirouette where he sits and moves his front end around his back end with zero bend. Control the shoulder control the horse. . .

[lys]

this is a really interesting thread for me because my young jumper is a lot like your horse. he’s a hanoverian but is half tb and very slight & catlike. he’s naturally quick across the ground, incredibly athletic, and insanely clever. he also favors bulging his right shoulder just like your horse; to the right he can almost literally turn on a dime but he’s not quite there to the left. very frequently he “beats me” to the right and that’s something we’ve been really working on. he’s even become a bit dull to my leg lately for reasons that we’ve not quite figured out, but we’re working through it.

anyway, we have done a lot of the exercises outlined above. my trainer is really good at creating challenging exercises. we like to laugh about how she tortures me - we’ve even done exercises with squares sort of like what phoenixrises mentions, only she sets up a “box of doom” with poles and we do various patterns through the box at walk, trot, and canter. my horse is much better with difficult activities and exercises that keep his attention.

definitely looking forward to the other ideas coming! this helps me when i’m riding on my own to keep him challenged and focused and working toward improving our skills.

[ItchyRichie]

My jumper mare was exactly like this. I used to never be able to make the inside turns in my jump offs. I remember I had a moment in a jumper round where I was double clean and only 5th and I just though, “man, I have the fastest horse here for sure, I shouldn’t be 5th when I’m double clean” (and this was like 1.15-1.20m not little stuff where people run like crazy). When I got her she was experienced and brave but not actually very broke to flat.
I just did a toooonnnn of flatwork with her. Any pole exercise imaginable. Half pass, haunches in, shoulders in, counter canter, difficult pole exercises while maintaing a counter canter, just to the point of mastery. Not fighting with her and not being mean, just patiently trying everything over and over again until I got it right, or at least had improved from where we started that day. I think the more sort of “tricks” you have in your arsenal, the more options you have later on and the more sensitive your horse becomes to you.
It paid off for me a lot. Not just in showing too, after having great flatwork skills I was able to do a lot of other fun stuff with her! Check this out
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWIXcNkc8Xs
(hard to tell but I was only riding her with a rope around her neck!)

[ItchyRichie]

Yeah I can’t think of any specific exercises really, but I just always kinda throw some poles on the ground, try a bunch of different things, and if I notice something that’s a little challenging/a weak point work on it.

[SillyHorse]

You need to learn to control your horse’s shoulders, and for this, diamonds are a girl’s best friend. Ride diamonds at one end of the arena, using the middle of the wall on the short side as one point of the diamond, and relative spots on the other two walls plus a spot on the open side opposite the short wall as the three other points. This will force you to prepare by getting your horse in your outside rein and holding his haunches with your outside leg while you bend him around your inside leg. Start slowly at the trot so you both get the idea. Your goal is to have him in front of your leg and light in the bridle so you can ride crisp corners at the canter.