Expenses question

[WeissMar]

Hello all,

Obviously I’m new to the forum and I am looking for some help. My daughter has been riding for several years now and now that she is in her teens, it’s becoming more serious and expensive. She has an amazing passion for riding and we love her devotion.

Here is where I am hoping to get help. We don’t mind paying these rather large expenses for horse shows, we just want to know what we are paying. My daughter had forbade me from asking barn personnel about the bills as to avoid embarrassment to her, so I am hoping to get some help here.

We lease a horse and it stays at the barn she is part of. A few weeks ago she attended a show and subsequently we received these two bills, one from the show and one from the Barn. I’m hoping for some explanation of the costs and whether the costs are reasonable for a 5 day show.

Thank you so much and I apologize for my lack of knowledge in this subject.

Second bill on next reply…

[WeissMar]

Here is the second bill

[LovesHorses]

This seems very fair to me. I am in Seattle WA. Everything costs more here and the shows have more up front fees. Where is the charge for hauling?

[WeissMar]

Thanks for your reply. The hauling bill was a separate bill that we already paid.

[Cat.J95]

What comes to my mind with these bills is, I hope the staff is seeing most of that $75 per day.

[Calvincrowe]

I would agree that the bill seems fairly normal. Does your daughter need to have three lessons at the show before showing on the weekend? I assume the “ride” was a pro ride on the day after the barn arrived at the show? If your barn requires those ‘lessons’ but your child is competent and the horse/pony is safe and fairly easy to show, there might be a way to lower your bill a bit by not doing 3 days of lessons.

Are you able to do any of the horse’s care your self-- is that an option with your barn? That’s another way to lower bills, if your daughter is capable of it.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

This seems plausible and honestly, reasonable, for that amount of time away.
Bill 2 is just typical horse show invoices: Trainer splits (which usually includes shavings and hay, as well as potentially a grooming stall (where horse gets ready) and may also include a tack room or tack stall (those costs are split between number of customers). Hay is ridicuIously expensive these days, so those costs have gone up. The rest is your typical USEF show office/admin fees and division costs.
The barn bill for horse show seems realistic and fair. Between gas, hotels/RV costs, and potential golf cart rentals, it adds up, even if it’s split between multiple customers.
Supplies… yeah that’s normal… it’s wear and tear on show set-up materials, and brushes, shampoo, etc.
Daycare is going rate per day. The people tending to your animals are there for easily 10-12 hours minimum ensuring that horses are settled, happy and fed, and watered. It’s a small cost to pay for peace of mind.
You’re in good shape. Nothing here raises a red flag.

[Peggy]

Looks pretty normal to me.

I don’t know what led to the post entry fee, but that’s something that might be eliminated with more planning.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Hmmm… if they’re relatively new to showing, I’d assume the lessons daily is to keep pony/horse going and in the rings, and keeps the kid focussed and not as nervous. There are a good amount of trainers that don’t want kids just going rogue at horse shows without supervision. That would mean lesson… but doesn’t mean it’s all jumping… could be flat lessons too.
Honestly, $2500-3000 per week is pretty standard here.

The onnnnly thing I might question here is the Short Stirrup Equitation. Did you scratch late or forget to scratch and no-show for the division? I would expect a scratch-fee but looks like they charged you for the full division, but only seeing results for Cross Rail Eq and SS Hunter classes? Did she do the full div and not place?

[Sarah616]

These costs are very normal.
However, you should absolutely speak with the trainer/barn owner/whoever is doing the billing BEFORE going to a show to know what expenses to look for. I wouldn’t try to dispute charges after the fact, but it’s a hard bill to just pay when you aren’t expecting all of the charges. Does your barn have a price sheet? Being clear to both parties is very important. While something such as the staff split may seem obvious to the trainer, it may not even be on the radar of a parent who has never paid for a show before.

[WeissMar]

Amazing answers! Thank you so much!

[Punkie]

Completely normal; middle of the road in terms of AA shows/barns.

Unless your under 12 year old daughter is the one paying the bills, I think it’s a bit ludacris that you’ve been “forbidden” from asking questions of the barn staff. You’re the parent, she’s the child. If I’d ever even thought to try that line on one of my parents, my ponies would’ve been sold so quickly my head would’ve spun. If you have questions, talk to the barn staff.

[Scribbler]

@Punkie

Completely normal; middle of the road in terms of AA shows/barns.

Unless your under 12 year old daughter is the one paying the bills, I think it’s a bit ludacris that you’ve been “forbidden” from asking questions of the barn staff. You’re the parent, she’s the child. If I’d ever even thought to try that line on one of my parents, my ponies would’ve been sold so quickly my head would’ve spun. If you have questions, talk to the barn staff.

My thoughts exactly. Whoever is paying the bills should know exactly what they are paying and deserves a run through of every item especially when you are new to the game.

You don’t need to get snarky or Karen or act like you don’t trust them. Just pleasantly sit down and ask to be walked through the bill.

You do this with your boarding bill, your vet bill, and your home reno tradesmen or auto mechanic.

It’s also fair to ask if there’s any room to cut costs.

You should always go through any bill because there can be discrepancies and errors.

I don’t know what facade child thinks she’s putting up. Everyone knows she’s an early stage child rider with a leased horse and parents who don’t understand the show scene.

[trubandloki]

I agree with the above, I am sure the trainer knows that you have no idea what is going on. Just politely ask, you are new to this and do not know. How are you supposed to learn how this works if you do not ask?

Daycare is the daily care of the horse and things associated with the horse Cleaning stalls, feeding, watering, etc. It is typically charged per horse per day. For example, if you take two horses that number will double.

Splits is your share or the trainer and staff hard expenses. Hotel, etc. How this is billed can depend on the barn but most barns this is billed by the rider. If the barn brings two riders, all the expenses for the trainer and staff will be divided by two even if one rider has two horses and one rider has one horse.

Supplies is the set fee for the barn set-up. Did they have drapes decorating your area and such? Unloading and reloading all the trunks and such is time consuming and hard work so this is a pretty typical cost.

I think the rest have been explained and are pretty obvious.

[Bending_Line]

OK, these prices may be “normal,” but when did it become normal to pay $2600 for one show in the short stirrup divisions! It’s absurd that this is where we have gotten with the Horse Show Industrial Complex. I don’t even want to know what the lease fee is. People showing in the 2’ divisions shouldn’t have to be at a week long A show–they should be paying $15 per class at the local county fairgrounds, and doing it 2-3 times a summer, and spending the rest of the summer acquiring skills at home or trails or what have you. I cannot support the idea that this is good for the industry.

[blondewithchrome]

These are 100% in line with what a rated show on the east coast is going to cost. Knowing the show invoice, that is a HITS show - and they can be costly. The barn bill is also very normal. It costs to take the horses to the show and take care of them - unless your daughter is waking up at 6am to feed, picking her own stall, scrubbing her own buckets, doing her own pony’s night check, etc - no getting around the daycare/grooming. That is a small price to pay for me when I think about the effort those staff are doing for the horse. Per horse, it comes down to less than $10 an hour to take care of them if you think about it that way…

If your child is getting more serious, I would 1000% set a budget for showing and then talk to the trainer proactively about the schedule for the year. What show is when, and are any of them local/less distance/schooling Vs rated. As the payer of the bills, you should absolutely know what things will cost before you commit. Budgeting around $1500/2000 for a rated show in the short stirrup is a lot, but if you are serious about it, you and your trainer can come up with a good plan for your DD well within your desired budget.

[Midge]

Shocking, isn’t it? But yes, those costs are average. If you are looking to lower costs over the course of the year, map out which shows you go to ahead of time. The cheapest way to go are unrated local shows. Granted, most A show barns will not have many, or any, of these on the schedule, but maybe they do. Also, pick mostly shows that are close to home. It may be that closer to home shows will make two trips, so the horses that only show on the weekend stay at home until the weekend and you avoid the two or three extra day care charges. That may not be your barn’s business model though, so it would be good to check. But it should also save in shipping fees. Then you can pick a show or two that is bigger, or at a location that can double as a family vacation.

At your kid’s level, showing about once a month is more than enough. Depending on your barn’s location and winter schedule, showing during the winter may be limited, which would be fine to show less during the school year. I am assuming there is an assistant trainer who stays home during the shows.

[Tha_Ridge]

As others have said, everything looks totally above board here and I wouldn’t worry. You are in a barn with normal, transparent billing practices - yay! But as others have said, I wouldn’t let your kid prevent you from asking questions. Your trainer has certainly answered them before.

[Ponyplusaninch]

Yeah, that is the new typical price-wise. I still cringe at how much more expensive it is than when I was at this 18 years ago, but here we are. However, the good news is you found a barn that itemizes and bills you appropriately! While this should be standard, it’s not always. So do take comfort you’re working with a legit business.

Someone else mentioned this, but I’ll stress it again for emphasis: DO talk with barn staff/trainer about what your budget is for the year, if you think horse showing is going to be a new-normal for your fam.

I kind of get the daughter’s embarrassment, I do–it is really hard being a tween kiddo in an environment where other kids seemingly just get whatever they want, show whenever they want. You want to fit in. You don’t want to have a cap. And I have seen parents get caught up in this in an effort to buy a child’s love (seen this a lot with divorced parents, actually).

But that said, it’s important to have reality checks now for you, your daughter, and your trainer about what is actually possible with your wallet.

Trainer and I typically sit down in December and start chatting through what the expected budget is and what makes sense for the horse (and me), any goals, etc. And I recommend underpromising, always, because you never know what else is going to happen in life. Then if you do find you have the extra money to do another show, have that be a pleasant surprise for everyone involved.

[AmmyHunter]

@Bending_Line

OK, these prices may be “normal,” but when did it become normal to pay $2600 for one show in the short stirrup divisions! It’s absurd that this is where we have gotten with the Horse Show Industrial Complex. I don’t even want to know what the lease fee is. People showing in the 2’ divisions shouldn’t have to be at a week long A show–they should be paying $15 per class at the local county fairgrounds, and doing it 2-3 times a summer, and spending the rest of the summer acquiring skills at home or trails or what have you. I cannot support the idea that this is good for the industry.

People are not only paying this for the 2’ divisions, they are paying it for opportunity divisions like Walk Trot Ground Poles and the WTC divisions. I personally can’t quite fathom spending that much to trot over poles on the ground, but I also recognize that not everyone has a great local circuit available, and more importantly, not every barn is taking people to local shows, or able to have an assistant take people. So, for some people, if you want to show with your barn, that’s the option. And I figure it is their money and their choice!

To the OP, those bills look normal, unfortunately! And I totally get a 12 year old not wanting mom to ask questions, that’s not bratty that’s just normal pre-teen self-consciousness and not wanting to be the one ask questions, but it is completely fair for a parent new to the show scene to ask the trainer to walk her through the charges. It’s how you ask the question that matters – “hey, I’m new to this, can you explain to me what all these things mean” will be fine, but if you approached it as “hey, why am I paying so much for X” that’s going to automatically put the trainer on the defense and be less productive. Once you have a couple of shows under your belt, you will have a better feel for what might be optional, but looking at the list, most of it is pretty standard and hard to knock out, other than if you could do self care, or reduce the number of lessons, and your trainer may feel like those are needed.