Expenses question

[Scribbler]

General point. Virtually all kids extracurricular activities are based on competition these days. Even dance and music. It lets the organization borrow a sports and team model and give some shape to the year and goal for parents.

However the result can sometimes be that you need competition down to the youngest beginner level, below what would be seen as competency or performance level in the past.

And of course pay for that.

In my youth it was more levels and badges for skating and swimming, dance had an annual performance at the fall Fair and advanced skaters could be in a winter club ice show Pony Club has competition but is based on levels. I didn’t get any badges in sports

[vxf111]

@candyappy

@WeissMar

Obviously I’m new to the forum and I am looking for some help. My daughter has been riding for several years now and now that she is in her teens,

@findeight

Somebody else suggested the under 12 child do self care to save on show fees? If it was the child’s horse, maybe, but its a lease, the child a beginner and horse is at an away show in a stall 24/7 for most of the week. Not practical here.

The child isn’t under 12 or green from the OP’s wording?? If she can ride good enough to show at this level ( and cost ) she should be able to do most of the work to care for the horse and earn at least a tiny % of the cost of showing.

The show bill said short stirrup and crossrails. That’s not going to be someone experienced enough to self-care at an A show regardless of age. Someone doing crossrail classes who is underage is not going to be in a position to ship her own horse, clean stalls, prep herself, etc. etc.

[Peggy]

1. You have to pay the entry fee unless you scratch (go to the office and unsign up for the class, and possibly take a scratch form to the back gate). Most shows in California will let you scratch regular classes before the class (or any classes running with open cards with yours) and give you money back. For classics it’s sometimes the night before, or before the show starts. HITS, which had left California, used to let you scratch the day of and get money back.

2. That definitely sounds like more than just routine immunizations, or even immunizations plus teeth. Could have also included a PPE or some sort of “maintenance.” HTT without a bill.

[vxf111]

Agree with the others. Sounds like you paid for a pre-lease exam on the horse before your lease term started. This is wise. It meant you knew the horse was in suitable shape before you committed to the 6 month term. It also means that when you return the horse in similar condition the owner shouldn’t complain about issues that predated your lease. This exam was for your benefit and it was prudent that your trainer set this up for you.

I suspect vaccinations were a small part of the overall bill. It is a little annoying that the owner would wait until the day your lease started for the horse to be vaccinated but its probably small potatoes in the grand scheme of things and you can’t show an unvaccinated horse. So either it got done before the lease or at some point you were going to have to do it.

[Rel6]

It definitely depends on the area, but $1,000 sounds pretty steep for a PPE on a 6-month lease for a short stirrup pony. Personally, for that length of time and that job, I’d want it to jog and flex serviceably sound with no major red flags and then call it a day. The most I would probably do is take a view of its feet to look for any rotation.

OP, did you not get the itemized bill from the vet directly? It should have all the costs broken out into line items. I personally would ask your barn for that - not only is if important for your own education, but you should know what (if any) maintenance and vaccines the pony received. If a PPE was done you should also have a copy of the findings.

Barns generally get a sense of how much details each owner wants over time. Asking isn’t a red flag - you’ll learn more of the process by having more information provided to you.

[Tha_Ridge]

@Rel6

It definitely depends on the area, but $1,000 sounds pretty steep for a PPE on a 6-month lease for a short stirrup pony. Personally, for that length of time and that job, I’d want it to jog and flex serviceably sound with no major red flags and then call it a day. The most I would probably do is take a view of its feet to look for any rotation.

Basic PPE by my vet is $750. Add in a stable call and vax and you’re basically at a grand.

[Rel6]

True - but it also doesn’t get much pricier than your area except for CA!

[Tha_Ridge]

I’m guessing, based on where OP was showing, that they’re somewhere up this way.

[Night_Flight]

It sounds like this trainer bills reasonably, but perhaps could be a bit more proactive about explaining upcoming costs to new clients, such as pre-lease vet exams, show costs, etc.

[erinmeri]

I would ask for an itemized bill for the vet visit… and while the show invoice was transparent and appears appropriate, I am less comfortable with the vet bill if OP doesn’t know what the charges were for.

I find it a bit perplexing that a PPE would be billed to a client who was unaware of its being done, or of the outcome/findings. The whole point is to know what you’re getting into. I also don’t know that a six month short stirrup lease would necessitate a PPE. I don’t recall if I did a PPE on my now owned mare pre-lease (and she was showing 1.20 and schooling higher before she came to me, not short stirrup!), but if I did, it was very basic and included no rads. I did, of course, do a thorough PPE with rads before purchasing her. I just cannot imagine a scenario where I, as a client, would be okay with being charged for an exam I was not aware of, much less had access to the findings thereof.

I also don’t know that I would be particularly pleased with paying for maintenance if its requirement and cost were not disclosed to me in advance. I actually DID pay for maintenance when I leased my horse, but I was aware it might be necessary, and of how much it would set me back… and I was part of the decision to do it.

I don’t like surprises, but I am also not new to horses and know what questions to ask up front. Sound healthy horses without maintenance requirements who don’t injure themselves or get sick are unicorns and anything can happen… but I want to know an animal’s history before signing up to foot its bill. One who needs vaccinations, dental and Coggins but unless it tries to kill itself (like they all do) is not gonna eat my earnings in vet bills is a different calculation than one with known issues. Which brings me back to the PPE…

Either way, the OP should know what the $1k was for.

[MHM]

OP, this is a very useful book that was written by a pony mom I knew many years ago. It gives a very helpful rundown of what to know and do as your child gets into the wonderful world of horse shows. I have not looked at it for some time, but I feel confident that it would be full of lots of good information for you.

Those of us who have been doing this forever can forget how completely foreign it is to those who are just starting out. This book really helps to bridge the gap. Best of luck to you and your daughter!

[Peggy]

In the same vein, I highly recommend reading The Year of the Horse by Eric Hatch and/or watching the movie based on it, The Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit.

Funny but accurate (OK, pulling a trailer with a sports car is definitely stretching it).

After looking at the price of the hardcover book on Amazon, I’m guarding mine.

[MHM]

@Peggy

watching the movie based on it, The Horse in the Gray Flannel Suit .

Best. Horse. Show. Movie. EVER!!!

Not a documentary, by any means. But absolutely hilarious.

[Limerick]

What do you mean “poofed”? I showed the Trillium circuit in 2003. I hope that still exists? I think they have “level” names now-like gold and silver? I showed at Fiddlers Green, Gaelic Glen, and Ashland.

[Rumorhasit93]

On the flip side…do you think approaching the trainer would illicit an honest answer? “Hi, we are new to this, are these fees normal?” What is the trainer going to say? “No”?

Yes these are completely normal & very reasonable rates. In the PNW most lessons/training at shows runs $100+ Per day. Grooming can be $100/day easily and splits even more considering how many groom stalls, VIP, food tabs, etc.

I think this was the right place to ask for an honest answer

[MHM]

Also, regarding the vaccinations at the start of the lease. The horse may have been due for them on his regular vaccination schedule.

It’s also possible he may have needed updated vaccinations in order to be able to go to horse shows. Many horse shows have specific vaccination requirements for the horse to be allowed on the property for a show, so if the horse had not been showing lately, he may have needed some booster shots or what have you to be eligible to show.

[vxf111]

Including vaccinations? Which seem to be getting more and more expensive every time I get them? And coggins and farm call etc. etc. I can’t see getting out of a decent PPE here for a whole lot LESS than close to a thousand.

Assuming this is an older been there done that mount suitable of taking a new rider to A rated shows I can totally see doing a decent pre lease exam. It might have even been required for insurance.

I don’t think we know that the OP wasn’t given the PPE results. She didn’t say either way.

[Rel6]

Totally fair about the extra adding up quick. OP seemed like she wasn’t sure what the bill was for - I assumed if she got PPE results it would have been clearer that was part of the bill, but perhaps I misread.

[Mouse_amp_Bay]

Trillium Champs at Wesley Clover labour day weekend. I don’t think it ‘poofed’, though entries are abysmally low (think 40 to 50 as opposed to the old 80 to 90 for a regional trillium show).

[Tha_Ridge]

@vxf111

I don’t think we know that the OP wasn’t given the PPE results. She didn’t say either way.

Also gonna argue that OP, given the level their child is riding and their newness to showing, shouldn’t be given the PPE results. Seems like a totally appropriate decision for a trainer to make and interpret for a client at this level, but I know that may not be a popular opinion here.