Experience with Markel Insurance?

[DoodlesMom]

I use them. My 5 yo came up lame a couple months ago, RIGHT after I actually got my policy (within a month). Turns out he has Navicular and a collateral ligament injury. Vet wanted an MRI, which they covered part of. For the $5000+ I’ve spent so far (initial lameness exam, x-rays, MRI, Osphos, joint injections, shockwave), they’ve covered $2400. So it’s helpful, but not awesome. They will not cover joint injections at all, and they only cover a small portion of the Osphos.

Honestly, I was expecting them to deny everything. The ONLY thing that saved me was that right when I applied for a policy, I got the vet to come out and do a lameness and neuro exam on my gelding. A friend’s horse had been put down recently due to a neurological issue, which was discover when her horse tripped and fell… and mine had tripped and fallen twice, so I freaked out. The vet said he was 100% sound and neurologically fine. That report was the only reason Markel is paying me now, I’m sure.

[Dressurfrau]

I really was impressed with the knowledge of the Markel rep but we ended up going with a farm policy for our personal interests and EMO for our very, small horse business.

[OneTwoMany]

Maybe someone who works in the insurance field can chime in, but my agent told me the insurance companies lose money on MM insurance. Hence the stricter underwriting standards and the increase in premiums.

[Samantha37]

@OneTwoMany

Maybe someone who works in the insurance field can chime in, but my agent told me the insurance companies lose money on MM insurance. Hence the stricter underwriting standards and the increase in premiums.

This. Major Medical is an absolute bleeding ulcer in the insurance industry. I work in equine claims and to be brutally honest, this is a result of clients and more specifically veterinarians running up insane bills for everything. I’ve seen cases where they did bone scans and MRIs before doing any other type of diagnostic. And then, because the vet has been told the horse is insured, they throw the book at them for treatment. After paying policy limits countless times on lameness claims, the insurance companies had to do something. People are paying somewhere between $250-500 for major medical premiums and getting anywhere from $5-$15k in limits. I get really frustrated when I hear comments about insurance companies sucking because of their coverage… I don’t see how it makes the insurance companies greedy for needing to rein it in a bit. They can’t stay in business to provide ANY coverage if they lose money at that rate.

MTA: We are not going to hesitate one iota to pay policy limits. I’m just point out when it happens on the majority, rather than minority, of claims, that is not feasible for business.

[Escada]

I had Markel when I taught and I really liked them. My insurance didn’t go up much from year to year but I had a smallish client base and I didn’t operate my own facility. The cost covered all of the barns I went to so that really helped out on the price. I didn’t renew this year because I’m not teaching anymore.

[TakeAChanceinVA]

@Samantha37

This. Major Medical is an absolute bleeding ulcer in the insurance industry. I work in equine claims and to be brutally honest, this is a result of clients and more specifically veterinarians running up insane bills for everything. I’ve seen cases where they did bone scans and MRIs before doing any other type of diagnostic. And then, because the vet has been told the horse is insured, they throw the book at them for treatment. After paying policy limits countless times on lameness claims, the insurance companies had to do something. People are paying somewhere between $250-500 for major medical premiums and getting anywhere from $5-$15k in limits. I get really frustrated when I hear comments about insurance companies sucking because of their coverage… I don’t see how it makes the insurance companies greedy for needing to rein it in a bit. They can’t stay in business to provide ANY coverage if they lose money at that rate.

MTA: We are not going to hesitate one iota to pay policy limits. I’m just point out when it happens on the majority, rather than minority, of claims, that is not feasible for business.

Yes yes yes! People are so shocked when they dont understand why their premium is so high… I’m like do the math! You’ve paid $500 in premium and were given $5000 on a claim last year… and now upset that they are going to exclude what they paid for??? They are NOT making a ton of money on major medical. Mortality on a pleasure horse is a much safer risk for them!

My horses are insured but with a minimal coverage plan… my vet understands we are still conservative when we treat. The last claim I made I was reimbursed $164 because I had some xrays done to rule out further possible issues - fortunately we were just dealing with soreness and injected.
Adding to this: It helps to understand what your insurance plan covers when going IN to a lameness work up. With most programs these days its not just a ‘hey, everything is covered, go to work Dr.’ arrangement. With co-pays, sub limits etc. you can still be out of pocket way more than you’d like to be. So READ your policy. Know what coverage you have so that you aren’t surprised when your claim gets denied or not paid fully.

Wish owners and vets would understand that the more we expect the insurance companies to pay for, the more they will charge and/or not cover in their programs. Its great your horse is insured, but doesnt mean you have to go and do every treatment in the book!

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@TakeAChanceinVA

Yes yes yes! People are so shocked when they dont understand why their premium is so high… I’m like do the math! You’ve paid $500 in premium and were given $5000 on a claim last year… and now upset that they are going to exclude what they paid for??? They are NOT making a ton of money on major medical. Mortality on a pleasure horse is a much safer risk for them!

My horses are insured but with a minimal coverage plan… my vet understands we are still conservative when we treat. The last claim I made I was reimbursed $164 because I had some xrays done to rule out further possible issues - fortunately we were just dealing with soreness and injected.
Adding to this: It helps to understand what your insurance plan covers when going IN to a lameness work up. With most programs these days its not just a ‘hey, everything is covered, go to work Dr.’ arrangement. With co-pays, sub limits etc. you can still be out of pocket way more than you’d like to be. So READ your policy. Know what coverage you have so that you aren’t surprised when your claim gets denied or not paid fully.

Wish owners and vets would understand that the more we expect the insurance companies to pay for, the more they will charge and/or not cover in their programs. Its great your horse is insured, but doesnt mean you have to go and do every treatment in the book!

Are you/prior poster with Markel? Ever had a real claim?

What about the prior poster?

Give me a break. I never once complained about a premium. I got the best coverage I could get for my horse and Markel totally screwed me over. This has nothing to do with not wanting to pay premium, it has to do with an insurance company, Markel, doing what it does best, which is cheating their way out of paying a claim, a small claim, and then excluding coverage.

If you are with Markel, I’m happy to go all out on this post and lay it out. But don’t give me this BS about not understanding. It’s a crock of crap. Markel hedges it’s bets that people like me won’t take the time to sue.

I’m a provider myself and no test ordered was expensive, unnecessary, or out of line.

[TakeAChanceinVA]

I have no personal experience with Markel so I cant speak for them… I have policies through the Hartford and have had great service through a few claims (one major and a few minor). But I do work for an agency so am familiar with a lot of different companies and programs.

[Samantha37]

@right horse at the right time

Are you/prior poster with Markel? Ever had a real claim?

What about the prior poster?

Give me a break. I never once complained about a premium. I got the best coverage I could get for my horse and Markel totally screwed me over. This has nothing to do with not wanting to pay premium, it has to do with an insurance company, Markel, doing what it does best, which is cheating their way out of paying a claim, a small claim, and then excluding coverage.

If you are with Markel, I’m happy to go all out on this post and lay it out. But don’t give me this BS about not understanding. It’s a crock of crap. Markel hedges it’s bets that people like me won’t take the time to sue.

I’m a provider myself and no test ordered was expensive, unnecessary, or out of line.

I am a former Markel employee - so no need to go all out on this thread unless you want to. I worked in the equine claims department

I will tell you that my manager at Markel told us repeatedly that our job was to find coverage for the clients. It was never, ever to look out of ways to pay claims. I don’t know what happened in your situation but I’m sorry it did.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Samantha37

I am a former Markel employee - so no need to go all out on this thread unless you want to. I worked in the equine claims department

I will tell you that my manager at Markel told us repeatedly that our job was to find coverage for the clients. It was never, ever to look out of ways to pay claims. I don’t know what happened in your situation but I’m sorry it did.

(I am deleting my post as we are talking off line.)

[Samantha37]

I am the same Samantha and have PM’ed you.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

@Samantha37

I am the same Samantha and have PM’ed you.

Thank you, I will look at it as soon as I get to my office.

[MysticOakRanch]

@Samantha37

. I get really frustrated when I hear comments about insurance companies sucking because of their coverage… I don’t see how it makes the insurance companies greedy for needing to rein it in a bit. They can’t stay in business to provide ANY coverage if they lose money at that rate.

.

Sorry, but there is another side to this story. I use to insure EVERY SINGLE horse, even my broodmares. I had 6 or 8 horses insured for year after year after year. And never had a claim. So at $700 or $800/horse/year (major medical and mortality), the insurance company is getting over $6k/year from me, year after year after year. Then one year, I finally have a claim - and for me, it was a mortality claim because my horse went downhill so fast, there was only a handful of emergency vet bills. And the insurance company took over 6 months to pay, with repeated contact from me and my vet.

I also had exclusions on some years because I was honest and disclosed one mare had a minor colic (MINOR, as in a bit of banamine, a single vet visit, NO claim made), or one mare was slightly off, again, minor vet bill, no claim made. Insurance companies are so happy and so quick to exclude.

I had one other claim in my many years of insuring my horses, and it was about $3k, and the insurance company denied it, AFTER telling me I needed to put the horse through a minor surgery. Ultimately, they paid part of the claim, but I was still out of pocket several thousand $.

When I add up what I’ve paid in premiums, versus what was paid out, the insurance company has made a tidy profit on me - and that is how insurance companies work. So yes, they do some big payouts once in a while, but they count on denying claims AND never having claims on the majority of their clientele. If you think an insurance company is losing money, you are NOT realistic. Insurance is BIG BUSINESS in this country. Big PROFITABLE business.

After that, I dropped all my insurance and went to self insurance, and am happier for it.

[Samantha37]

@MysticOakRanch

When I add up what I’ve paid in premiums, versus what was paid out, the insurance company has made a tidy profit on me - and that is how insurance companies work. So yes, they do some big payouts once in a while, but they count on denying claims AND never having claims on the majority of their clientele. If you think an insurance company is losing money, you are NOT realistic. Insurance is BIG BUSINESS in this country. Big PROFITABLE business.

Yes - insurance is a big business in this country. The equine product book is not so big. As far as claim denials and what not - I am not going to try to find out what happened in the situations you mentioned above but there are always 2 sides to a story. Honest to god - the math does not make sense if a company is taking in $300-$500 on major med premium and then paying out $5k-$15k in policy limits that they are raking in the cash. They aren’t out to deny but they do work within the confines of the policy as is required, and if a condition is not complied with then there may be grounds to deny.

Additionally - if someone isn’t happy with an exclusion, the first thing I advise people to do is talk to their underwriter to see if it can be removed, or made more specific. And if they aren’t happy with the answer- talk to other companies.

I can promise you, as an insurance professional of coming on 10 years (solely equine claims), I have never EVER EVER been told to deny without enough cause to hold up in court. It is not a matter of denying claims because we don’t want to pay them. We literally have to feel our case is strong enough to go to court if we deny. And that is not taken lightly. I think I denied one claim a month on average (some months none, other months may have 2) - and I handled about 150 claims per month.

[soloudinhere]

I have been with several different companies (AEIG, Praetorian, XL Catlin) and I have to say all have paid claims timely. I have never had to make a mortality claim.

I was self insuring mostly due to policy limitations on alternative therapies, diagnostics, etc. However I just insured my 3yo with Praetorian because I learned my lesson last year when I cancelled my insurance, then had a horse start to show neurological symptoms and end up being treated for EPM. Facing down those bills was scary, not that I didn’t have the money, but because it is a bottomless pit of diagnostics and treatment and relapses, etc. So now I’m just paying my $500 a year for the piece of mind that I owe my deductible and that’s it.

[right_horse_at_the_right_time]

Edited :). Found one

[MysticOakRanch]

@Samantha37

. Honest to god - the math does not make sense if a company is taking in $300-$500 on major med premium and then paying out $5k-$15k in policy limits that they are raking in the cash. They aren’t out to deny but they do work within the confines of the policy as is required, and if a condition is not complied with then there may be grounds to deny.

Part of my point is that the insurance company doesn’t PAY $15k in claims on every policy - most policies never pay out ANYTHING. You work in insurance, you understand what a risk pool is. Most people pay and pay and pay, and never make a claim. But when a claim is made, it is generally going to be big $ - that is why people insure, for that ‘peace of mind’ of the big claim. Reality is, you probably have 100 people paying in at $450/year, and ONE or TWO make a claim of $10k. So the math makes absolute sense. It is the same with ALL insurance - the math always makes sense, the insurance companies always make money in the long run.

It is just like a casino - a few people win the jackpot, the rest just pay and pay and pay. The Casino always makes money.

[TakeAChanceinVA]

@MysticOakRanch

Reality is, you probably have 100 people paying in at $450/year, and ONE or TWO make a claim of $10k. So the math makes absolute sense. It is the same with ALL insurance - the math always makes sense, the insurance companies always make money in the long run.

You would need numbers to truly back this up as I doubt 2 out of 100 is an accurate number. Plus, in order to keep equine insurance an option I’d really like the companies to make SOME money so they can keep offering coverage so I’m going to rely on that risk pool to keep us all covered. But that doesn’t mean they can afford to pay out every persons thousands of dollars on diagnostics every year.
I dont work directly in claims as the other poster did but I am quite surprised at how many claims get made. And as someone else said - some treatments are unnecessary. Is a bone scan really necessary to diagnose an abscess?. So I cant blame the insurance companies in limiting their coverages.

Limiting coverages is different than denying claims - which I don’t see that often, and if it is denied, there’s pretty good reason for it, as stated above. A lot of times it comes down to the owner not understanding their policy (like reporting too late, no necropsy in a mortality claim etc.)

Sounds like some people have had some pretty shitty experiences. I guess I’ve been lucky enough to have not had them.