Experience with Nathe vs Nathe Flexible Loose Ring?

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

I have a very sensitive mouthed horse who, for the past 8 months, been trying to find a bit that makes him happy to no avail. I recently discovered the Nathe Loose Ring in some threads and decided to order. He has a super fat tongue and fleshy lips and easily gets splits from metal bits even with mouth guards. I’ve tried a few happy mouths, but he wasn’t that thrilled about them either. I went on Smartpak and ordered the Nathe Loose Ring snaffle. It ships out today, so I went online to check my order and realized they sell two versions. One being the Flexible 75mm and then the 65mm. I ordered the 65mm. :-/ I ordered thinking I was getting a flexible bit, but it appears I am not. The rep I spoke to said my order has already shipped, so they couldn’t exchange them out. So now I have to wait till this one arrives to see if it will work.

My question is for those who have tried both or the non-flexible one. Did you notice a big difference between the two?

[Lord_Helpus]

I have never tried the non bendable Nathe. However, I have used happy mouths – are they similar?

I have used the Nathe soft rubber snaffle on the quietest horse in the world. His favourite gait was standing still. The loose ring, soft Nathe was the solution to all my problems. – However this was more than 10 years ago — I had to order the bit from England back then. I don’t know if the bit is still the same.

If you can, borrow a hackamore for a while, and try that before ordering an expensive bit. You may find that the bit is not your problem. It could be coming from higher up in the jaw, or worry about your hands, teeth that need attention (even if they have just been done, there is a huge difference in the quality of horse dentists) or any number of things.

But, after a week in a hackamore, he becomes soft and does not continually flip his head, then you will need to pursue your quest for the perfect bit.

PS: If you’re showing in hunters, then he needs a bit. But for trails, endurance, jumpers a hackamore is allowed.

PPS: I once had a horse who would yaw at the bit no matter what I did. So I taught him to be trained to the martingale. No doubt you have seen pictures of people riding without a bridle, but with a wire around the neck. Martingale training is similar, except you give your aids using the martingale, instead of a bit.
Be creative — think outside the box.

[Palm_Beach]

The horse really should not be getting “splits” from a bit unless it’s being used with enough force to split flesh.

I’d put a rope halter on him and get him to respond correctly to light pressure. What behavior problems are you having?

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

There’s no “behavior” problem. He has a fat tongue and fleshy mouth and is super sensitive. I’m not asking for training help. I’m asking for the difference between the two versions of this bit because I want to make sure I put him in the one that’s most comfortable.

[kiwichick]

my sensitive horse didnt like the Nathe at all. Its quite fat (it was the flexible one) he wouldnt go forward in a myler at all, and is ultra happy in a KK ultra.
Another of mine didnt like the NS turtle top and loves the myler, and my welshie didnt like the KK ultra and goes in a stubben boucher well, but is currently in a myler due to other concerns.
What I thought was best for them, and what they thought was best for them varied wildly!

The horse will let you know wether he likes it or not. I wouldnt expect there is much differece between the 2 bits, if he really really likes the one they ship, might be worth trying to find the other to try and evaluate difference.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@kiwichick

my sensitive horse didnt like the Nathe at all. Its quite fat (it was the flexible one) he wouldnt go forward in a myler at all, and is ultra happy in a KK ultra.
Another of mine didnt like the NS turtle top and loves the myler, and my welshie didnt like the KK ultra and goes in a stubben boucher well, but is currently in a myler due to other concerns.
What I thought was best for them, and what they thought was best for them varied wildly!

The horse will let you know wether he likes it or not. I wouldnt expect there is much differece between the 2 bits, if he really really likes the one they ship, might be worth trying to find the other to try and evaluate difference.

Thanks! I’ve tried SOOO many bits on him and so far, nothing has made him happy. This will be our first shot at a soft rubber, so I’m just keeping my fingers crossed. The other bit I was considering is a PeeWee, but I’d love to settle on the Nathe since it’s dressage legal.

[IPEsq]

My friend’s very fleshy mouthed horse goes in a 6" NS Verbidend. The corners curve away from the lips. I’ve found the bit to be kind of strong as far as snaffles go, and friend’s horse is a little bullish in the contact, but her primary problem is finding a bit that fits and doesn’t cause problems and that bit fits the bill.

[LarkspurCO]

@Smthn_Like_Olivia

I went on Smartpak and ordered the Nathe Loose Ring snaffle. It ships out today, so I went online to check my order and realized they sell two versions. One being the Flexible 75mm and then the 65mm. I ordered the 65mm. :-/ I ordered thinking I was getting a flexible bit, but it appears I am not.

If this is the bit you ordered - https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/nathe-loose-ring-snaffle--65mm-rings-7153 - it’s actually quite flexible and easy to bend, and nothing at all like a Happy Mouth. I had this one and used it when I started my horse. It worked well for a year or so and then I sold it when I started to need a more “lateral finesse.”

The Herm Sprenger Dynamic RS eggbutt is a good one to try if you haven’t already.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

@LarkspurCO

If this is the bit you ordered - https://www.smartpakequine.com/pt/nathe-loose-ring-snaffle--65mm-rings-7153 - it’s actually quite flexible and easy to bend, and nothing at all like a Happy Mouth. I had this one and used it when I started my horse. It worked well for a year or so and then I sold it when I started to need a more “lateral finesse.”

The Herm Sprenger Dynamic RS eggbutt is a good one to try if you haven’t already.

Yes, that’s the one. Thank you! I have the HS Dynamic. He hated it. Also had the Verbindend, which someone else mentioned. Ended up selling it cause he wouldn’t have anything to do with it. I have 2 friends with a ridiculous bit collection and he balked at everything we tried on him. The only two I can get him somewhat quiet in is a baucher - french link or happy mouth, but neither are a great fit for his mouth, and he still tries to evade the contact.

[neversaynever]

I also had a hard time finding a bit that worked for my sensitive mare. She evaded, head tossed and ground her teeth. After trying a lot of different bits (hated the happy mouth and chomped splinters into it the first ride), she ended up liking the nathe (it was flexible) and the herm sprenger WH ultra soft Snaffle with the rubber center piece. Dressage Extensions has a bit trial also so you can see if your horse will like it before you buy it.

http://www.dressageextensions.com/wh-ultra-soft-snaffle-16-mm/p/1064/?eid=WGSH00&utm_source=google&utm_medium=PLA&mrkgcl=1132&mrkgadid=3208381967&rkg_id=h-2f3c29fde5328bac5fbdb7966c7f7826_t-1522790521&utm_campaign=NB_PLA_AllProducts_GOOG&adpos=1o6&creative=195602689636&device=t&matchtype=&network=s

[Simkie]

One more avenue, if you find the nathe doesn’t do it:

I have a suuuuper sensitive and easily offended mare who goes really well in a micklem. For her, the more still and static everything can be, the better. A eggbutt french link in the micklem makes her happy. A boucher in a traditional bridle is second. She did okay in the nathe, but the loose ring was waaaay too much movement for her. I bet she’d like it in a fixed cheek, though! Bits that were more mobile were “walk three strides and get off carefully” experiments. :lol:

[x-halt-salute]

I disagree with the idea upthread that a horse can only get splits from excessive force. It doesn’t take much to create a sore on a horse with very fragile, sensitive skin.

Following up on @Simkie 's recommendation, a drop noseband is another possibility. I have a sensitive, fleshy-mouthed horse who is fussy in many bits, and fixed vs. loose ring didn’t make a difference (nor did the Nathe, FWIW). Switching to a drop noseband on her snaffle bridle made a world of difference. I think a regular noseband presses her ample cheek flesh against her teeth.

She’s also a fragile skinned creature, and though she gets rubs from a flash no matter how it’s adjusted, the drop has been much better. If you want to experiment with the noseband/fleshy mouth thing before buying a whole new bridle, swapping a drop onto an existing snaffle bridle is a relatively inexpensive way to do it.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

Thank you for all the great suggestions! I have been looking at different bridles as well. The new Nirak from PS of Sweden looks interesting, but it’s new so I haven’t seen many reviews on it. He was a jumper with previous owners and I did see an old pic where he was being jumped in a dropped noseband. A friend at the barn might have one I can try out on him.

[Kottbulle]

I saw you mentioned that he seems like a baucher bit… maybe something to consider if how the bit sets in his mouth,A Baucher is pretty much suspended in the mouth and therefore may feel more comfortable. Something also tottery is a pelham, because you would get the same hanging/suspended feel in the mouth.

Also maybe look into the Eco Pure line of rubber bits from Centaur. They are much thinner than most rubber bits and have quite a wide selection. My OTTB just chews the crap out of a regular “normal” dee ring, so ihavebeen scared to try a happy mouth for fear he would just chew thru it. But so far he likes the Eco Pure and hasn’t or can’t chew the rubber up. They are also all under a $50 it seems like Victory Canter seems to have the biggest selection in the whole range of bit types.
Lastly maybe try wrapping a regular metal bit with Sealtex. My OTTB seemed to like that when I was initially trying to find something he liked, but kept having him chew chunks into a regular rubber dee ring, and hadn’t found the EcoPure line yet.

[Smthn_Like_Olivia]

We had our first ride in the Nathe tonight. It went surprisingly well. The one I ordered was very flexible and soft, so I honestly don’t think there is much difference than the other one advertised besides the ring size (65mm vs 75mm). I’m not sure yet if this is truly a winner, though he was most agreeable in this bit than any I’ve ridden him in. As someone else mentioned, I think it may still be a little too thick, but I think he definitely appreciated the softness of it. It did bring about a new issue of leaning, but was easily adjusted by adding leg.

The other issue, of course, was brakes as he is a big, strong, forward horse that I have worked hard to teach response to seat and core, but I came back to ride coming off of a week long virus and simply didn’t have the strength tonight to bring him back as I normally do. Not a big concern, though, as he is not a real run away with you type. Just likes to keep moving.

I’m eyeing the PS of Sweden Pioneer bridle and think it may be a good combo with this bit for him. Thank you all again for the great suggestions! You gave me a lot to consider and try in my never ending search to make the big guy happy.

[fanfayre]

YAY

[mlb722]

My mare gets splits from overly fat bits—has nothing to do with riding/training issues. She has fleshy lips and a low palate. She likes the locking type bits, like NS turtle top or stubben easy control. I tried the nathe, it was ok but not great. Stubben had a 12mm d ring locking bit that she loves.