Experienced A-show hunter gelding suddenly scared of all objects on the ground.

Hi there,

I’ve always appreciated the insights of the COTH community over the years, and am really hopeful to get your input on this situation that has myself (owner), as well as current and former trainers completely baffled. Sorry for the short novel that follows:

Here’s the situation: 7-year-old warmblood gelding that I imported as a 4-year-old. Brought him along myself (I have 20 years of riding and competition experience) along with help from the trainers at the barn for which I was working. Took him to Florida as a coming 5-year-old, showed him lightly in the 2’6" Baby Green Hunters at WEF. He was fabulous - both with myself and the trainer, he did really well and was incredibly brave. Never once looked at a jump, just the typical green things to work through - a bit of rushing down the lines, straightness, controlling his huge stride, etc. Hacked out alone and trailrode to the show grounds every day with no issue.

He continued competing the following summer and moved up to the 3’ Greens (trainer riding), doing well overall but not a huge fan of one particular arena up in Vermont, which we thought had to do with the bright yellow flowers and pine tree standards. In this particular ring, he did run out at a jump once - the first time I’d seen this happen - with the trainer riding, which was handled correctly without punishment, and he got through it.

Fast forward a year, I decide to switch career tracks and move to a city, thus giving up my grooming job and leaving my horse back home with the same trainers for a few months. During this period of time I don’t know entirely what happened, but he was kept in work. However, I came down to take a lesson at one point and his demeanor had completely changed. He was not the relaxed, agreeable horse I knew, but instead noticeably tense and overreactive to my aids. This was the first time he ever spooked hard with me riding and almost-but-not-quite stopped at a jump only 2’ tall. We got him checked for ulcers (nothing) and Lyme (also nothing) and, due to concerns about the training and organization at the prior barn, decided to move him up to a barn with a different trainer who I’d worked with for a long time in the past who is especially good with young hunters, especially those who are a bit on the “hotter” side as mind might be described.

It took this other trainer about 4-5 months to get his confidence back, and we figured something must have happened while I was gone at the prior farm that triggered this fear and anxiety. The new trainer ultimately did get him back to his confident, focused, normal self and he proceeded to get back on the show circuit with a ton of success, moving up most recently to the 3’6 and getting good ribbons in Florida (even taking a Junior into the 3’3 and doing a couple of 3’6 Eq classes). I rode him while he was in Florida and he was feeling better than ever, confidently finding distances and unfazed by any of the commotion or scary looking jumps.

He came back from Florida and resumed normal work at home with this same trainer, flatwork 3-4x per week, not much jumping at home. Since he is a sale horse, a trial was arranged with a potential buyer. Prior to going on trial, this same trainer wanted to get him comfortable with potentially jumping a liverpool. This process was started by rolling up a tarp (not while horse was present) between two sticks so that it was essentially the same size, shape, and color as a blue ground pole. When she went to walk my horse over this pole, he completely lost it - would not get within 10 feet of it. Trainer did not discipline him or get after him, just calmly worked him around it, slowly trying to get him closer, and eventually was able to have him walk over it somewhat calmly. BUT, ever since this day, he has become spooky and suspicious (whole body freezes up, snorting, even starts shaking with fear) of ANY slightly abnormal objects on the ground. No reaction to things up at eye level - only things on the ground.

Plain, unpainted crossrail. Cavalettis. Broom that fell over in the aisle. Flower box. Grooming bag. Dark rubber mats, especially when there’s a puddle or any sort of water (he becomes terrified of the foam that comes off of him and into the drain when I give him a bath). When jumping, he’ll stop when he sees a “new” (aka it has changed it’s location in the ring) jump for the first time, but not in a dirty way - it’s more of a two/three strides out type of thing, where his head goes up and he starts to go sideways. We can always work through it fairly easily - just patting him, walking him up past the jump again, and calmly but firmly reapproaching it and he pops over. By attempt three or four, he’s jumping calmly and is completely relaxed and back to normal. I can tell he gets scared on those first approaches that he’s going to get punished, so we avoid that at all costs. But it’s the strangest thing.

Any thoughts on why this behavior has suddenly appeared at such a magnitude? He has nearly three years of show experience, and yet this behavior is coming out at HOME in a familiar environment. We had his eyes tested (they’re totally fine), hocks/stifle injected, he is already on SmartCalm Ultra (has been for a couple of years) and gets regularly checked for ulcers. This behavior doesn’t seem to have to do with a reluctance of work, because the spooking comes out when I’m handling him on the ground, bathing, grooming, etc as well. The things he has suddenly become afraid of are objects that he never once batted an eye at for the first 2.5 years owning him. He is pretty good when ridden on the flat, but when jumping comes into the picture, he becomes a nervous wreck. He was so confident when I first got him that it’s really perplexing to see him like this now.

I’m open to any sort of training it might take to work through this. This guy means a lot to me and, while he is ultimately a sale horse, we are not going to rush to sell him until he is 100% confident and happy.

Thank you all!

Scattered thoughts -

Have you checked vision? Light sensitivity?
Has he “followed the leader” up to spooky jumps?
Have you turned him out in the ring with spooky jumps? Can you to allow him to investigate with his own devices?

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3 things come to mind.

Eyes which you say have been checked.

Training which you say you are happy with.

An imbalance of feed which the saying is “it goes to their head” and makes them silly

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Have the eyes checked by an ophthalmologist reg vets aren’t very good with eyes generally. Second thing I’d suspect is Lyme disease. When my guy had Lyme he became weirdly reactive.

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Have you checked for back pain?

If all things physical check out…

Some horses just Do Not Jump Water, and any attempts at doing so will fry them. If it took trainer 4-5 months to get his confidence back, it might take just as long to regain his trust this time around.

Is there a pressing need for him to go over a liverpool? If you do get his confidence back, I would tell potential buyers he doesn’t jump water. For a hunter or eq horse (barring a few medals), they don’t have to jump water.

Have you tried giving him a break from jumping? Not even a plain pole or cavaletti for several weeks, maybe months. Maybe a break from ring work altogether, if you can go out on trails.

When we had a horse that was over-reactive about everything and needed to mentally relax, we sent them to trainer who specialized in difficult horses (and starting them). Ours was a cowboy (but it doesn’t have to be, just someone who has good results with whatever their methods with horses who are not doing well in conventional h/j program), who does a little round pen work and a lot of trail rides; they also live outside 24/7. Horses always came back much more relaxed and easy and willing to work.

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Saddle fit, sore back, check for Lyme again, EPM. Eyes, food allergy.

Good luck with him!

I dunno … while eyes/feed/Lyme/ulcers can all cause a change in behavior, from what you’ve described he sounds like a quirky, sensitive horse that loses his confidence easily, and this didn’t truly come “out of the blue” … it was a direct result of an (admittedly fairly innocuous to us humans, anyway) specific training technique that caused him to lose his confidence. Getting his eyes checked may not be a bad idea — maybe there is something there that’s been underlying his behavior all along — but this doesn’t really sound like a sudden change in his overall temperament.

It sounds like you’re on the right track, keeping things simple and letting him gradually build his confidence up. He may just be one that’s always going to be better suited to environments where there aren’t going to be any surprises.

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I’d say the other potential medical issues not yet tested for are EPM and Vitamin E Deficiency.
Any changes in his turnout schedule? I.e. is he in his stall more than when he was young?

there is sadly a possibility that prior trainer saw a nice horse, got a little greedy and tuned him up. because if he jumps well naturally, he can jump better by being trapped. :rolleyes: That can really undo a horse. I hope for his and your sake that wasn’t it. but then it’s just patience.

Good luck

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Eyes, ulcers, Lyme are all usual suspects. Also, if it is happening at the same time of year…it could be changes in the grass. I know a few who get wonky early spring and fall when the grass is more sugary. Change in hay can do it too.

Another vote for Lyme, my guy had it and it dramatically changed his personality. As i understand it, the spirochetes (sp…) flare monthly, so its very possible to test for it and get a negative result because they are currently not in a ‘flare’ and not read-able by the test. (Did that make sense? my coffee isn’t kicking in yet…) Good luck!

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I’d test for Lyme again and EPM. Vitamin E as mentioned, or try magnesium (I can’t recall if any / how much is in the Smart Calm, but you might need more or a different type).

Lastly, pain, somewhere. Or some other neuro related issue. My vet says this kind of out of the blue spookiness was one of the main symptoms of my horse’s neck arthritis. You say you have done some joint injections. I knew one horse who was the same way about stuff on/near the ground who had something going on in a stifle. He had gone from jumping 3’ at shows to stopping 30 feet away from a ground pole at home. Once the stifle issue was found and addressed, that went away although the horse was always going to be a sensitive type.

Finally, it could be whatever fried him in the previous program involved something like your tarp exercise. I owned an import who turns out didn’t jump water. And he had been 100% fried on that. We tried everything, taking it slow, just letting him be near something liverpool blue. There was no undoing it. He would then become very scared of my trainer standing next to a normal jump. I guess a ground person may have tried chasing him over the water? It would take him a while to unwind after he’d been set off and he was the opposite of hot. Anyway, we figured out what his triggers were and just avoided similar behaviors or exercises. He did wind up jumping several liverpools (I was doing the USET) without noticing them until we were already over them.

Not sure what happened to your guy but he is still lacking confidence for some reason. Maybe it’s physical, maybe it’s from whatever happened in his training. My guess is it’s some of both. Like this has been brewing (maybe from a physical cause) and previous trainer didn’t handle it correctly so it has escalated.

I would look hard for any possible physical reason first and address that. The training piece will then take as long as it takes. Perhaps he needs a break. I know, not good for a sales horse but this isn’t one you can show easily at home anyway.

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So if it isn’t health related -

Wondering if sometime during the spell that he was at the first barn, he became the mount of someone a lot less confident and learned that he’s allowed to “look” and get reactive. As a confident rider, you brought him along with the attitude of “there’s nothing to be silly about, I’ve got this” so he trusted that. Now, something happened to blow that up.

Almost like you’re in a relationship, and you get cheated on. After, you’ll be a lot more predisposed to suspicion until you work through the trust issues established in a traumatic situation.

Could he have had a weird crash with someone? Were they using him for lessons?

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I know you said he’s been checked for ulcers, but hind gut ulcers aren’t going to show up on the typical testing and in my experience cause more spookiness-type symptoms. I actually never test for ulcers, I simply treat them. There’s so much data supporting how many show horses have them, and if there’s any other physical issue or training issue, those alone can cause enough stress to trigger ulcers. Personally, I use Gastro Plus Pro from Equine Science Solutions, which is not a drug, but works better than any product I’ve ever seen - and is much less expensive than a full course of Gastro Guard.

I would definitely continue to pursue physical things because sometimes issues can manifest themselves in strange ways. It could be that how he holds his body when he’s nervous about something triggers a painful spot which causes the reaction. I’d also be inclined to look at neurological issues, because I’ve seen those cause seemingly non-nonsensical or disproportionate reactions.

If it’s not physical, it sounds like whatever happened at the other place really fried his brain, and for whatever reason, the blue tarp triggered it. If you feel like you could get an honest answer you could call the old trainer and ask, but the likelihood is they’re not going to cop to what sounds like was a major event that really rattled him. Also consider that whatever happened could have caused an injury, and any time pain is included with a scary event I think it’s harder for them to get over. I would keep handling it the way you are, and if his reactions or distrust or tension are significant enough, maybe consider adding a calming supplement or something to help ease him through this. I’m certainly not a drug pusher but in cases like these, something that helps them relax so they can have several positive experiences can really help them turn a corner faster.

Good luck, this is a weird one.

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When you imported this horse at age 4, had they already done some liverpool training, or any training over jumps? You mentioned you brought the horse along yourself, but was it started elsewhere? So many hunters are sold to the US as they aren’t going to make it as jumpers, for whatever reason. I have personally known of 2 that refused to jump liverpools, making them worthless as jumper prospects. Perhaps the best long term plan for this horse is to stick to hunterland where the jumps are relatively safe and friendly, if you are able to get him going again.

A barnmate of mine was in a similar situation as you - jumping suddenly became an issue for her 5 year old imported gelding after the trainer took a bad distance at a show and went flying off the horse.

She tried for a over year to rehab him…She did “follow the leader.” Sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn’t. But once she started follow the leader, the horse only wanted to jump with a leader and it complicated things even more. If he was great one day, we would get a feeling of optimism, but then the next day he’d be back to where he was or worse. Had his eyes checked. Checked for ulcers. Lameness check. Added Legend. Adequan. Checked saddle fit. You name it, the horse was fine. Tried depo. SmartCalm, Chiropractic adjustments. Changed the rider. Tried a different ring. The horse was traumatized and couldn’t handle it.

At one point, he had started to really improve and she was even able to take him to a show and they did the 2’6" division (he’d previously been doing 1.10m when he she bought him). All seemed great! And then one day he was insulted by something - we never could figure out what - and he was not only back to where he was, but was even worse. Like your horse, ANYTHING on the ground offended him. Eventually, he didn’t want to go into the ring - not even to hack around.

Not wanting to fight anymore with the horse any longer, and wanting to find something that he could do, the owner started riding him in the field. He was lovely in the field. But she realized after a year and half of on and off issues, that he wasn’t going to be her adult jumper. He made it clear he didn’t want that job. So she sold him at a significant loss. She didn’t feel like he was safe nor could he do the job he was purchased to do. After a long break, the horse is now a field hunter - he found joy again by jumping natural jumps in a field. He still hates jumper poles to this day, but he’s very happy in his job. I wish I had a better ending to share with you, but that isn’t how it went. Have you ever gotten sick from eating something (food poisoning sick) and then you can no longer eat that food ever again because the mere thought of it makes you queasy and you would never dare eat it again? That’s how jumps in a ring were to this horse.

It’s a long process but a change of scenery might help your horse cope and recover mentally. Some horses never fully recover.

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Thanks all for the feedback and tips. Really helps to be able to bounce ideas around. It’s tough to think that this horse might just not want to continue a hunter career and might not want to jump again (especially since he was so brave and lovely starting out) but if that’s what he needs, that’s what we’ll do.

I am considering putting him on a slightly different calming supplement in addition to the SmartCalm. Not sure if anyone’s tried Equine Matrix products? Someone recommended the Matrix supplement a while ago and I figured we might give it a shot. He’s already on a vitamin E supp (Elevate SE) and has been on this for about 2 years.

This horse is not ring sour in any way, and I genuinely think he enjoys his ‘job’ when he isn’t riddled with anxiety. He’s a lovely horse on the flat and, if jumping really turns out to be an long term issue, I think he’d make a very nice dressage horse.

@atl_hunter I don’t think anything happened to him prior to import; the original owners purchased him directly from the breeder (their next door neighbors) along with the dam, and he spent most of his 2- and 3-year-old years turned out in a huge field with other youngsters. They had started his training with dressage and a bit of jumping, intending him to become a three-day eventer. He had already jumped a small liverpool and even jumped around an outdoor course on their grass field with no problem at age 4.

We never need him to go near another liverpool in the future if he doesn’t want to - ideally, best case scenario, he gets his confidence back enough to do the 2’6 up to the 3’3 hunters with a confident adult.

I think we’ll get the vet back out again to do a more comprehensive look at neurological issues, check on his stifles, definitely re-test for Lyme, ECP, and start treating for ulcers to see if that makes a difference. I’m wondering if it might be worth bute-testing him for a couple of days and see if this makes an impact. He did have a slight issue with a locking stifle that became noticeable as a 5-year-old, but never to the point of lameness. It was only noticeable when he had spent a long period of time in his stall. He was blister-treated about 8 months ago to help with this, brought back into work as instructed by the vet, and has since had zero issue with stiffness or locking up.

If it seems like he’s A-OK physically, I think it might be worthwhile giving him a mental break for a couple of months and allowing him some time off to be in a field. He does get a reasonable amount of turnout right now on grass (2-3 hours per day) but I know he was much happier overall when he was able to be turned out overnight and for longer periods, which logistically isn’t possible where he’s boarded at the moment.

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I almost suggested a bute test, but if ulcers are a concern then the bute can flare those up. Maybe use a gut-friendly NSAID like Equiox, in conjunction with maybe robaxin to hit the muscle side…might be interesting.

I think a break could go either way. It may be exactly what he needs to decompress. On the other hand, if he leaves for vacation in this headspace, it could reinforce it, and he could return exactly where he is.

Do all of the physical checks and make any environmental changes that might help.

But while you give him time off, I’d also be doing clicker training and teaching him to go investigate something new, especially something on the ground. I started with a target (top of a feed bucket) and “touch it” as the command. Now I can give him the command from on his back and he’ll go put his nose on something. It helps a lot when he’s doing the dragon snorting and weaving and dodging trying to get his eyes on something in front of him.

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Yeah, that’s why I suggest taking a break from ring work, if it’s not a physical issue, but not necessary all types of riding, like going out on trails. I understand some areas are not conducive to this – mine wasn’t, which is why we sent a few away.

And like @atl_hunter mentioned, some do much better in field hunting too. I haven’t had personal experience with it, but have a hunting friend who’ve said they get some that are reluctant to go in a ring but love being in the hunt field.

Good luck, OP, sounds like you’re doing everything you can, hope horse comes around.

Of course the basic complete vet check is the place to start, as said by others above.

You need to find a vet who specializes in eyes and eyesight. The standard vet eyesight exam is a very basic “can the horse see?” That doesn’t begin to address everything that might be going on with possible changes in your horse’s eyes.

Ask more questions and go much deeper. If the vet is not an eye specialist and wants to veer off elsewhere after they’ve exhausted their basic resources, PUSH. Get a referral to a specialist.

If your horse has issues that are outside the standard realm of vet knowledge and practice, don’t limit yourself. Do not settle for less than a specialist in any area if you think you might need one. Specialists may be expensive, but it is even more expensive to spend time and resources on the wrong answers and still be stuck with the same problems.

I would also check hormonal imbalance. You may be looking for a specialist for that as well.

When it comes to problems that are outside the usual, you are your horse’s advocate, his only voice. Vets, trainers and others may intend the best for each client, but in the end they are working within their own limitations and considerations, and they have more appointments to go on to. You are the one individual in the mix who is focused on just this horse. He needs you for that. :slight_smile:

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My horse’s eyes were cleared by a veterinary ophthalmologist. I chased down rabbit holes for MONTHS before taking him to New Bolton where they found 2 corpra nigra cysts in one eye and 1 in the other. I might go for a second opinion on the eyes by a clinic. The fact that the behavior happens even in hand, even in the aisle screams vision to me.

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