Explosive behaviour or nothing at all

I have a 6 year old Irish gelding who I’ve had for a year and a half. I know his history from birth. When I tried him and for the first six months he was very sweet, quiet and enjoyed his work. Wouldn’t say boo to a goose. At the pre-purchase vetting (no problems) even the vet said how lovely and relaxed he was.

For the first six-eight months everything was good. I was riding him a few days a week doing a mix of flat, pole-work and hacking (trail riding) and he slowly gained muscle and fitness. I made everything slow and consistent with him.

By his fifth birthday he was quite fit and some feistiness started to come through. We were doing all of the above plus some jumping (once or twice a week, max) which he loves.

He started bucking here and there and when something excited happened or he was anxious - e.g. we were at a show, we were jumping, a horse in the next arena was pratting around. He would often explode intensely (full on rodeo bucks) for a few minutes, and then go back to normal.

Since the beginning, he’s been stiff on the right rein, never wanting any inside bend and swinging his quarters out. This has slowly gotten worse. For carrot stretches, he has no problem reaching right the way to his quarters on both sides. He’s been seen by chiros and massage therapists and nothing’s ever been flagged as being a big problem.

He had a few months off over the winter due to some injuries he picked up in the field (wounds to his neck and leg).

When I started bringing him back into work, he was reluctant to move off my leg, his ears would pin back (something he’s never done) and started bunny hopping and cow kicking if I asked for any impulsion. Something was obviously bothering him and I could feel him tensing physically under me as soon as I applied any pressure to move forward. Sometimes not asking anything of him he’d do it. Same thing bareback. Same thing bitless. I’ve tried riding him through it but he just continues acting uncomfortable.

Spoke to vet and asked to do some X rays but they got cancelled due to coronavirus, so we agreed to do a Danilon trial in the meantime.

It hasn’t made any difference - he’s either mega hot and explosive or has NOTHING in the tank at all. He’s been in consistent work for the last month doing a mix of long lining, lunging, groundwork and riding (area and hacking) and he’s the same. One day it’s like he really just doesn’t want to do it and will give as little as possible, and the next day I get on and he’s full of beans and broncs and bucks and wants to run the whole time.

Last night we went for a ‘chilled’ walk around the farm, something he’s done most days for the past week, and he was exploding constantly and suddenly. Got back to the arena to lunge him and he ran, at a gallop, for about five minutes. It was like he was possessed. Earlier this week he fell over from pratting about so much. He’s not lame.

Saddle was checked a month ago (really well respected fitter in my area), teeth were done a few months ago (both have always been done routinely), he’s turned out 24/7 and fed one cupped handful oat straw, one cupped handful grass nuts, one tablespoon salt and a vitamin E supplement once a day. He’s pretty much perfect weight wise. Barefoot.

I’ll be doing a full work up once my vets are operating again, but wondering if anyone’s had any similar experiences? I do have videos of some of this behaviour so please PM me if you’d like to see it.

I would do the two week no grains, no sugars etc challenge with this horse. It can’t hurt and I’m strongly suspicious that systemic inflammation and ulcers could cause a lot of these issues. Pulling all grain and grain byproducts made an immediate and dramatic improvement in my FEI dressage partner and many other horses I have learned about since changing diet. It can’t hurt to try and absolutely may be the answer you need.

https://theequinepractice.com/feeding-horses-the-frequently-asked-questions/

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Thanks for taking the time to reply. I’ve emailed my vet to ask about treating him for ulcers. I currently manage him as PSSM positive so he’s not on any grains or sugars, aside from the tiniest amount of oat straw (it’s literally one handful, and he was doing this long before that).

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Is he eating only forage and no concentrates, supplements or treats? Just confirming because so many people have told me their horse is grain free but it end up they are in a ration balancer with wheat middlings etc. probably not in your case sense it sounds like you are closely monitoring for PSSM but I wanted to be sure.

If he’s truly already all forage, you might look into Succeed for hind gut ulcer health.

https://www.succeed-equine.com/products/succeed-digestive-conditioning-program/

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The only thing he has is grass, grass nuts and the oat straw chaff. All together it doesn’t even cover the bottom of the bucket.

I don’t buy treats as I just use the grass nuts for reward. I only feed the token he gets so he can have the salt and Vitamin E (the Vit E is for the suspected PSSM).

Sharing this story as food for thought:

I have one who was somewhat like this in her youth. She’s an easy-keeping homebred who went from always pleasant to what I’d call Jekyll and Hyde explosiveness. We battled with it for years. The problem was we could never find anything “wrong” with her. After years of searching for a source of pain and turning up nothing, I just relegated myself to the idea she was crazy/I had ruined her somehow.

It took me embarrassingly long to figure out the problem is she is just a super sensitive complainer, complaining well before she is in measurable pain. For example, her saddle appeared to fit her fine and was checked multiple times, but was part of the problem. Jointed bits irritated her. She is even sensitive to things like girths, boots, and saddle pads and will become explosive if she doesn’t like them.

Once I realized this, our problems vanished. Though her “complaints” are pretty ridiculous, she is indeed uncomfortable and will work herself into a frenzy if I don’t listen to her. That doesn’t mean letting her have her way; it means using the tack she is comfortable in and not forcing tack that makes her uncomfortable. And in doing so, she had become a really reliable partner.

I don’t necessarily think your guy is the same. But he is trying to communicate something with you and you may need to think outside the box.

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It sounds like he’s been in inconsistent work, which can also lead to tying up/azoturia also.

I’m sorry your horse is so unpredictable. Ulcers seem like a likely cause. Or kissing spines? Cervical arthritis? C6-7 malformation? https://thehorsesback.com/c6-c7-malformation/

This is completely anecdotal but I have had some recent experience that sounds a little bit similar. Super laid back horse I’ve owned for a couple of years, started refusing to trot. I was hauling him for lessons. Even stopped wanting to trot on the longe.

I took him off the complete feed I was using (for convenience for when we travel) and put him on a vit/min supplement with all the extras (fat supplement, msm etc) and on the advice of a feed store owner, magnesium. Voila, he’s back to normal. I don’t know if it’s the addition of the magnesium or removal of the complete feed, but I’m not messing with it now.

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Sorry - the reason it sounds a bit similar is because if I pushed for the trot he would threaten to buck or even buck a bit (it’s not in his nature to be defiant, so rarely got past a threat). He also had a very hard time bending.

He’s lame somewhere. I have a mare that has something wrong with her- after 3 vet visits, x rays, and multiple injections that did not work, i sort of abandoned the idea of getting a diagnosis… Anyhow she can easily bend to the left, but has trouble bending or circling right. When going to the right, she wants to travel straight or bend left. Her hindquarters swing to the outside and she gets crooked.

Similar to your horse, she likes to take off bucking and has had some slip and fall type accidents while out in the pasture. Usually due to her own carelessness.

She is relegated to light work. In general, her condition is better with consistent work. She gets stiff without it. She is good for riding solo so i take her out on trails and take it slow with her. Lots of long walks with trot work interspersed. No cantering unless I have committed myself to riding daily and getting her fit.

She is servicably sound. Not sound enough for dressage or arena work but happy to go out on trails. If anything she gets worse with stalling and lack of movement.

Stop forcing you horse to work. Take the pressure off. No more circles. Light hacks only. At least until you get a diagnosis as to what is wrong. For that matter, with bucking fits, just don’t ride until you have a diagnosis.

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He could have stifle problems as that can cause bucking, or SI pain.

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Have you tried giving him supplemental magnesium? A number of heavier horses really need some additional magnesium in the diet, and sometimes people do add it to the diet when treating the horse as a PSSM horse. It’d be worthwhile asking the vet about it. It’s cheap and no bad side effects when given at appropriate levels.

Here’s a brief article on magnesium in horses’ diets:

https://ker.com/equinews/importance-magnesium-horse-diets/

A selenium deficiency would also be on my list of things to check, as it can also lead to tying up and pain:

https://ker.com/equinews/selenium-horses-how-important-it-0/?highlight=selenium

Good luck.

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You can get PSSM testing from EtalonDx for about $40. I think I did a 5 panel just because I was curious. It just takes one worry off your plate.

There are different variants of PSSM, and they all have different feeding regimens. The low sugar/starch is a good start but if he is PSSM2 he’ll need a lot more protein. I’d get him tested, even if it’s just to rule this out.

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Unfortunately I’ve read that Etalon are unreliable. Can anyone corroborate?

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You are talking about my horse 😅 I’m beginning to think he has a bipolar disease…just like yours, some day quiet as a fish (we say this in Italy…tranquillo come un pesce!) some days full of bucks.

Also my horse checked for everything and sound and healthy. I’ve tried the no grain diet but I didn’t see big changes in his behaviour. Sometimes he just seems overexcited or anxious and he begins hopping. After a couple of minutes he Is back to his quiet self.

When I bought him he was 7 and for the first 6 months he was very laid back too. I think It was because a) he wasn’t really thin but he wasn’t in full shape and b) he was studying the situation. Previous owner was a quite rude cowboy type and I believe that every bucking had been hardly punished. I usually ride through hopping if I’m hacking and just try to make him understand that is not an appreciate behaviour (sometimes I just tell him NO and he stops immediately) or come down and lounge him consistenly if I’m in the arena, then ride him again at a slow pace and asking him easy things…I hope he’ll understand that it Is better behave himself .

He is 11 now…maybe slightly calmer but I believe he’ll have a buck in his pocket for me even when he’ll be 20 😅

I spoke to the vet again yesterday after sending the videos and we agreed to stop working him until we can start the work up process. She thinks the diet/management he’s on is perfect for now but obviously it might need to change if we realise he’s deficient in something.

We’ll do some back X rays and look at the suspensories to start with. I mentioned ulcers and she said given his management it’s probably quite low on the list of probabilities, but we’re gonna scope just to be sure. It’s possible he has hindgut ulcers that wouldn’t be picked up on a scope anyway so I imagine I’ll treat him regardless to see if the symptoms improve.

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He’s likely in pain somewhere. Doesn’t have to be lame to be hurting. That kind of erratic and extreme behavior I have seen at that age due to neck and spine problems. Friend’s very lovely and quiet ISH became completely unrideable–he bolts if you show him the saddle. At first they found some arthritis in the hip through bone scan. But they didn’t scan the whole body. Injecting that helped a little. He also has cervical arthritis and kissing spine. Tried treating it but no improvement.

Also seen the random bolting/running/bucking in an older horse (early teens) with cervical arthritis that had become too much for him and was turning symptomatic. I’m sure he was getting some nerve pain and he would periodically become ataxic. But it started with the behavior piece. He had been a fairly advanced beginner friendly, quiet horse. Same people owned him since he came off the track after only 1 start.

I think given our current situation that it’s reasonable just to wait until more diagnostics are available. Don’t get yourself hurt.

Had the same thing happen with my gelding many years ago. Like OP, he was fine when I first got him, and about 6 months in, he was a bucking mess. Had so many vet, chiropractors, massage therapists, etc… It was also mostly a saddle fit issue (even though we had checked his saddle several times) as well as a bit issue. Spent so much money on saddles before we found one he liked :lol: He was super picky with not only tack, but also grooming supplies, and he made himself heard. He’s now super chill with the tack and supplies he is happy with. Though I would 100% encourage OP to do a comprehensive vet exam, I also wouldn’t completely disregard the fact that it could be a fit issue.