Explosive under saddle

[heelsdowneyesupkeepb]

I purchased a warmblood mare from a less than ideal situation. She is 7 years old and hasn’t been touched for over 2 years. Prior to that, she had been very mildly backed. She has been in full training for about 4 weeks and she seems to be constantly going back and forth in her training.

Currently she has been walked and briefly trotted under saddle. Some days, she is absolutely fantastic and very relaxed while other times she freaks under saddle and usually tries to buck or rear and get her rider off. My trainer lunges her when it happens and then remounts, usually without issue.

I was just wondering if anyone had any advice on how to deal with this sort of behaviour.

[NYCspaz]

1. Vet check? Saddle fit? Teeth, etc?

2. Since it isn’t all the time, could it be when she is in heat? Are we talking every other ride or every few months?

3. Many horses act up with a change in weather. Rearing however is dangerous behavior. She might has learned that rearing = end of work. If so, it’s good that your trainer is working with her after the episode.

Since she is so green and it sounds like she makes you nervous, have you thought of putting her in full training for awhile? Does she act up only when you ride or when your trainer is riding too?

Bucking and rearing are both refusals to move forward. Have you gone back in her training to reinforce alsways moving forward from the leg? If it’s not a phyical problem it could be that she is confused or just unwilling to move forward. Ground work can help install this program again.

[Midge]

Four weeks is too short a time to ‘keep going back and forth’ in her training. She hasn’t really even started anything. Maybe tack her up and put her on the longe for a few minutes before each ride. She’s for sure not strong enough to do much so take that into consideration. Does she get lots of turn out? Being able to move around outside will help keep her from getting sore from the new exercise regime.

[enjoytheride]

I agree with Midge, this horse doesn’t really even sound broke, 4 weeks is nothing. I would look at your trainer, are they appropriate for a horse that needs to be backed or are they more appropriate for a horse that has been backed and needs some fine tuning?

There really isn’t any back and forth at this point, she’s just plain not broke yet.

[merrygoround]

A horse with an history such as this one needs to be ridden as though never before saddled. Is your trainer one with mileage starting horses. They take a lot more time to understand the basics, and a rider has to go forward slowly, with a feel of just how much to ask. Better too little than too much.

Have she a reliable stablemate she likes and could giver her confidence when ridden out?

[RedHorses]

I would check saddle position and fit. I rode a mare who was a lovely ride, unless her saddle slipped forward.

[LookmaNohands]

Forget riding for now. Start ground driving and keep it up until she is VERY relaxed and responsive. I mean do it for weeks–all over the place so it is old hat.

Ensure that her back is fine and the saddle fits well.

Just take some time.

[ladyj79]

Often times these horses have previously diagnosed problems that sellers may not disclose which is often why their training was never continued or finished.

[Chall]

Treat her like an unbroken horse.
My horse was lunged and long lined for three months before my trainer started riding him, other than sitting on his back and walking around the ring once.

[beowulf]

[QUOTE=merrygoround;8363134]
A horse with an history such as this one needs to be ridden as though never before saddled. Is your trainer one with mileage starting horses. They take a lot more time to understand the basics, and a rider has to go forward slowly, with a feel of just how much to ask. Better too little than too much.

Have she a reliable stablemate she likes and could giver her confidence when ridden out?[/QUOTE]

Agree…

I also suggest starting from basics on the ground - teach her to walk and trot in hand… then add lunging with tack. You really need to take into consideration she probably knows nothing and is very confused by everything being asked.

Honestly, your trainer should know better and it’s lucky all she’s done is bolt/rear.

Four weeks with a green horse is nothing. It took me 2 months of lunge work and in hand before I even thought about getting on my baby horse.

[candico]

Also might want to rule out EPSM. The condition can make their muscles painfully spasm and they will often act out. Mine did this when he was being broke - most days a champ, serious bronc horse on others. Trainers just thought he was having very naughty days - turns out it was pain-related.

[aascvt]

Can you tell us more about her history? Whenever I hear about a 7 or 8 year old horse that was started into some form of work and then allowed to sit, I want to her WHY. Frequently the story is “not enough time” but that is frequently not the real issue.
Did you do a pre-purchase? Did you see her work before you bought her? At what age was she started into work and what were they doing with her? How long had she been sitting before you bought her and began training?

I agree… I think that whether or not this mare has any physical sources of pain or just might have a naughty side, to expect her to be polite and quiet every day under saddle at this point is expecting way too much. Although she is 7, it sounds like you have a horse that mentally, is 3 or 4. I would spend a lot of time working with her on the ground. She a solid foundation of ground work before she should be working under saddle. She needs some respect for what is and is not acceptable while in work mode.
Also, I’m not sure where you’re located, but in most places temps are dropping. I would bet that that is also playing a role.

[heelsdowneyesupkeepb]

More information as requested.

Mare was purchased along with her 5 year old sister at the end of August. Divorce sale and due to the nasty nature of the divorce, the wife, who looked after the horses, did not see them for two years and they were in a pasture with minimal human contact. Prior to that, she had been sent for a trainer for about 2/3 months and was also very nervous there and had ground work done as well as walking under saddle.

After purchasing her, she was placed in full time training in the middle of September and also had her teeth floated at the same time. She is very submissive on the ground and looks to her person for confidence. Her ground work is fairly solid with no issues with lunging, backing and tacking. She is great for mounting and stands with no issues. It is only when she goes to start moving out under saddle that the problem emerges. For example, she was ridden on Monday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday of this week. She bucked/reared on Monday and Friday but was unflappable both Thursday and Sunday.

My trainer was told to treat her as an unbroke horse.

[Equitational]

[QUOTE=candico;8363524]
Also might want to rule out EPSM. The condition can make their muscles painfully spasm and they will often act out. Mine did this when he was being broke - most days a champ, serious bronc horse on others. Trainers just thought he was having very naughty days - turns out it was pain-related.[/QUOTE]

Also something like kissing spine, from what I’ve heard, can cause intermittent behavioral issues.

[hj0519]

[QUOTE=heelsdowneyesupkeepbreathing;8363608]
More information as requested.

After purchasing her, she was placed in full time training in the middle of September and also had her teeth floated at the same time. She is very submissive on the ground and looks to her person for confidence. Her ground work is fairly solid with no issues with lunging, backing and tacking. She is great for mounting and stands with no issues. It is only when she goes to start moving out under saddle that the problem emerges. For example, she was ridden on Monday, Thursday, Friday and Sunday of this week. She bucked/reared on Monday and Friday but was unflappable both Thursday and Sunday.[/QUOTE]

Is this her typical pattern of behavior? She’s good after she’s had a day off, and bad on the second day being ridden in a row? Maybe there’s some kind of soreness from whatever she did the day before?

[heelsdowneyesupkeepb]

After having a bad moment, my trainer will get back on and she will be completely fine under saddle and cause no problems.

[Bo]

Sounds like a cold backed mare I used to know.

Google cold backed horse and see if what you read sounds similar to your mare.

[aascvt]

So did you do a pre-purchase exam on her?
Has your trainer tried lunging her first off before getting right on?

If I’m understanding correctly, she was first started / sat on at the age of 5, then had 2 years off until re-starting 1 month ago. I wouldn’t expect her to behave herself consistently at this point, to be honest. She may just need time.

I will say that I am always looking to rule out sources of pain, but this sounds much more behavioral to me. Something like kissing spine would be painful on a much more consistent basis. Ulcers would also be good to rule out, but the pain is also usually consistent. We did a series of full body bone scans last fall / winter at our hospital for horses with VERY similar histories. (Young, several being mares, started late or time off for breeding etc and now acting explosive under saddle). We found nothing physically obvious with diagnostics to explain the behavioral issues.

[Timex]

I have a mare that is cold backed. It seems to be hormone related, in her case. But if she has had a day off, or seems a bit up before a ride (she gets that wide eyed look), then I throw her on the lunge for a couple of minutes before I hop on. 2-3 minutes is usually fine, and she is allowed to walk off calmly after mounting. If she has been particularly tightly wound, and can’t seem to stay focused, I’ll have someone stand at her head and walk off with us. She settles pretty quickly that way, and she is fairly easily managed. (FWIW, In my case, she is an 8 yr old tb that we had rescued as a malnourished 2yr old. I had to wait till her 6 yr old year to start her u/s, as she was just so immature till then. But lots of groundwork got done in the meantime…)

[Wonders12]

First question is did you do a prepurchase? If so, and there were no major red flags, I would go down the behavior/training route for now. If not, at least do a basic lameness exam. If for no other reason to see what your baseline in.

To me, this sounds like a baby trying to figure out this whole working life thing. Depending on how long her rearing/bucking lasts, I would push her forward through it and move on with life. Once she learns that there is no benefit to it, it will usually stop. We are finally on the back end of this with my horse with a similar story.

If you’re not confident enough to ride aggressively through the blow-ups (and at one point I had to admit that I wasn’t), it might be better for you not to ride right now. I know that’s a terrible thing to say, but you can still hand walk and groom and lunge her to build a relationship without riding. Either have your trainer ride her daily, or find a brave and capable rider to ride under your trainer’s instruction.

Finally (and this has been life changing for me), learn how to listen to your horse and don’t fight the bad days. My mare usually tells me in the cross ties if she’s having an ants in her pants day. On those days, I free lunge her before I ride. It’s not to get her exhausted, just to let her run and buck and get the sillies out. Similarly, if she surprises me and I get on and feel like I’m sitting on a powder keg, I’ll get off and do the same routine. The important part is to get off BEFORE they do anything naughty. Otherwise you’re enforcing the bad behavior and saying, “If you rear/buck, I will get off, and you will get to have some play time before we go back to work.”

Good luck. This doesn’t sound too out of the ordinary to me, so in a couple months, hopefully you’ll have a completely different horse.