"extender" problem?

[stripes]

Just a little frustrated and I have some questions about receiving semen that isn’t up to par.

I bought a breeding to a National Champion stallion (Arabian) standing at what I thought was a reputable stallion managing facility. I was told I could get semen when I needed it, no problem. I read the contract which confirmed almost everything I was told, except “Stallions are only collected on M -W -F”, when I questioned that, I was told by the breeding manager that if they didn’t have the semen already in a container ready for shipping, they would in fact collect the stallion on a T or Th.

First shipment, they were given 48hrs notice that I needed semen on a Fri. Semen arrived on Fri, BUT less than 25% were alive and the paper work said 87% when shipped. =( No baby.
Second shipment, again they were given 48 hrs. notice and I needed the semen on a wed. which they shipped counter to counter - so it should have been better, but it wasn’t. My vet said whoever was packaging the semen was essentially smothering it and using the wrong extender for this stallion. After having my vet talk to the stallion manager - I was told I was throwing good money after bad. So, I’m moving on and changing my plans. I still have the breeding and I can use it next year, I guess I’m asking all the breeders here to chime in on extenders and why do some stallion owners not test different extenders annually? Do some extenders work better than others? What is the most widely used extender?

[horsechick]

My stallion was evaluated by a top notch repro facility and test cooled with several different extenders. The ONLY one that worked is INRA 96. I use that exclusively and he routinely has great numbers at 24, 48, and even 72 hours.

[FatCatFarm]

I feel your pain though not quite the same situation. I have a proven broodmare with a clean culture and she’s been doing everything right. Our first attempt, the semen was not the best - good numbers but low motility. The mare had just ovulated - open, soft cervix and acting very “in” a standing heat - when we got it so we put both doses in but no luck. Second attempt went text book and semen looked fine, but still nothing. Stallion owner, who is wonderful, is on her 2nd attempt to breed her mares too and I’m waiting to hear if they’ve had any better luck. He has gotten one mare in foal via live cover though. But I’ve already spent $2k on what was supposed to be an inexpensive stallion service auction breeding to a nice young stallion. Ugh! I did just check my semen report and the extender is INRA 96.

[cyriz_s_mom]

I don’t think most SOs test different extenders annually.

I have had Cyriz’s tested twice and both times INRA 96 was the far and away winner. Like the other poster, good numbers even at 72 hrs.

In the case with the stallion you’re trying to breed to, I would think that the breeding facility would have retested extenders after clearly having issues.

Sorry, I know how much it sucks when it doesn’t go right.

[Equine_Reproduction]

@stripes;6444240

I still have the breeding and I can use it next year, I guess I’m asking all the breeders here to chime in on extenders and why do some stallion owners not test different extenders annually?

Unfortunately, many stallion owners do not have their boys checked every year and they SHOULD be. As a stallion ages, what may have worked the previous year(s) may not in the future. So, in order to be sure of that, they really need to be checked every year. It’s not “that” difficult, either. Each spring, every stallion on the place here, is collected a couple times to clean them out and then collected for a complete evaluation. We extend them in usually 8 different extenders and evaluate them over 72 hours. Does it make a difference? You bet! Each year we have a couple stallions that we will change extenders on because of that difference.

Do some extenders work better than others? What is the most widely used extender?

You cannot say one extender works better than another because each stallion is different. If you are working with a facility that is extending each and every stallion in one particular extender, chances are they are not adjusting for those stallions that DON’T ship in that extender. INRA 96 is a popular extender and works well with a LOT of stallions. However, we have several stallions here that INRA 96 is NOT the best one for them. There is absolutely NO way of saying which extender is the most widely used. We use VMDZ, INRA 96, Kenney with a a variety of different antibiotics and a dual sugar extender with a variety of antibiotics, as well. The best extender is the one that works on that individual, particular stallion. Hope that answers your question!

[stripes]

Thanks everyone. Equine Reproduction, thank you, that was exactly what I wanted to know. After my vet called and talked with the stallion manager, he told me that changing extenders wasn’t an option. Apparently whatever they are using (can’t remember which one), is the one they have been using for years and it has always worked. I guess when mares don’t get pregnant they may get it? Or maybe not. Too bad for me, as I really like this stallion. Hope next year will be different - I can always hope.

[FatCatFarm]

[QUOTE=stripes;6445140]

Too bad for me, as I really like this stallion. Hope next year will be different - I can always hope.[/QUOTE]

I resemble this remark. AI is such a money pit when it doesn’t go well. Spoke with the stallion owner and her two mares are in foal. Luck of the draw I guess. Thought it would be a slam dunk - young fertile stallion + proven broodmare with a clean culture. That was probably my first mistake thinking it was a shoe-in. :no:

[pete_sheerin]

A few questions to the stallion owner/breeding facility can help decrease the likelihood of problems. The first is per cycle pregnancy rate with shippped semen. You need the results broken out from mares bred on the farm because there may be a huge difference. Per cycle rate will tell you the percentage of mares pregnant when bred for one cycle. This needs to be differentiated from seasonal pregnancy rate which is the percentage of mares pregnant at the end of the season. For example, a stallion with a 60% per cylce rate will have 94% of the mares pregnant after three cycles while a stallion with a 40% per cycle rate will have 92% pregnant but it will take 5 cycles to reach that level. Those two stallions would appear similar if you just compared the seasonal pregnancy rate. Ask them how well the semen ships. Do they have better success with counter to counter shipment vs overnight? Ask other breeders if they have had success breeding to a specific stallion. For the most part, stallion owners/breeding facilities will be up front with you. We hear horror stories on the forum but think of number of mares bred vs number of bad stories. Our goal standing stallions is to produce pregnancies so we will do everything in our power to insure we are sending the best possible product from a particular stallion.