Extreme rapid respiration - any ideas?

I have an 8 yr old Paint gelding, heavier on the muscle (not like a TB), who seems to be having difficulty when the weather turns humid and hot. When worked in the canter for any extent of time, his breathing is very rapid and shallow, like he’s panting. It takes him a loooong time to slow his breathing down to a normal level.

I ride him with a HR monitor and he can shoot up to 170-180 bpm when galloping out on course, but then it drops down to the low 80s within a minute or so and then, if I just let him stand, he pulses down to a high 60 within minutes. However, he’s still panting like a steam engine (or a porn star! :eek:).

I just came back from running Novice xc, where the temps were in the 100’s and the humidity was high, but there was a breeze. He had moments out on course where he felt weird to me (bobbly from side to side), and then he punched it and felt like a rock star. He had a very uncharacteristic run-out at a very simple jump, and then was a pro through the water and out again, and then had another uncharacteristic bobble at a solid table fence, which led him to rap his front legs and almost pitch me off. Since this wasn’t like him at all, I called it a day and scratched him from stadium. At the cooling station, we sponged him down with ice water and kept hosing and scraping like crazy, and he drank TONS of water (more than he’s ever done before) and 15 minutes later, he’s still breathing fast and shallow and the water still isn’t coming off him cool. 20 minutes later, his respiration slowed to a point where I wasn’t worried he was going to explode or pass out, and we walked him back to the trailer, where I hosed him down two more times. Finally - he stopped panting and the water ran off him cold.

Some info on him - he suffers from seasonal allergies. he tends to have a warmup cough in the hot, humid weather. He is on Cough Free which was working well until the really hot weather hit, and was on an antihistamine (Tri-Hist) for one day before the show (we stopped 24 hours out, according to drug regs), and he’s also on Dex to reduce inflammation. My hubby, who is a bike racer, said that most likely what happened was that due to the antihistamine, his body temps skyrocketed and there were probably moments on course where he felt woozy (hence the wobbling I felt at odd times), and he was panting to cool himself down - he says that antihistamines tend to raise your body temperature like that, as well as dehydrate you quickly. That would explain a lot about today, but it doesn’t explain why this horse tends to respirate quickly but drop his heartrate down at the drop of a hat.

So, what do you think? Can a horse have a quick HR recovery time, yet still be respirating quickly and be hard to cool off? the other horses were hot and panting, too, but they all recovered much better than mine did. I talked to my vet and she said that it was definitely strange, and she was going to look into it, but meanwhil I thought I’d pick your collective brains.

Thanks in advance!

Your husband is right – panting is a very efficient way to reducing the core body temperature. We see it a lot in endurance horses (my own does it), and from what you described with the information given by your heart monitor, I’d say your horse was doing OK recovering in this extreme heat and humidity. Frankly, his recoveries would have been fine at an endurance ride – well within the 30 minute parameters. In the early days Endurance used to use respiration as an indicator for recovery, but when studies proved it was misleading and only related to the horse using inhaled/exhaled air to cool core temperature, respiration was dropped as one of the parameters for recovery.

Does that help ease your mind a bit? :slight_smile:

I would agree with your hubby about the antihistimine. Personally, I would have discontinued it several days before, not 24 hours out.

I’m no expert, but I think if the heart is well-conditioned, it should still do down even in hot weather. However, if the horse is having difficulty cooling himself, then the respiration is going to stay up. (However, I may be totally off with this).

I have a horse that is very similar to your’s-it is SO difficult to get the respiration down in the summer, especially with humidity. I’d be interested to hear what others have to say. It makes conditioning hard, because when I take the weather into account (I decrease the length of my gallops and increase the walk intervals to get the respiration back under control), I feel like I’m really not working the heart that much.

If I remember correctly there is a thread on Tri-Hist (horse care forum?) and how it can stop a horse from sweating properly. It lasted a few weeks after we stopped my Paint’s dosing, so only 24 hours off you could quite possibly be seeing latent affects.

Kudos to you for pulling out of the competition when you were sure your horse wasn’t himself!!

Maybe start carrying a thermometer with you as well? I believe not going over 103 is a good indicator.

Wow - I looked up the Tri-Hist thread and yup - there were accounts of it raising the body temps (causing increased respiration) and in some cases, anhydrosis. Scary stuff. No wonder why it’s not permitted in competition (I had pulled my horse off it 24 hrs prior, according to the USEF spokesperson)!

So, yes, he was probably overheated, and yes, he could stand to be more fit (couldn’t we all?). I’m off to start a new thread about conditioning, now! Thanks to all who responded.

I vote the Trihist!

I too had a fat, not terribly fit, young filly invert (resps faster than pulse) on TriHist!!! It was mid 80’s, low humidity and great breeze. We were walking up steep hills. She panted and wouldn’t recover, got off and walked her home. Almost NO sweating which I chalked up to the breeze/low humidity. Only sweat under tack. Pulse in 60’s, resps standing still after 10 mins=120!!! I attributed it to the decongestant actually that’s in it but the antihistamine has effects too. Stopped it and horse is normal now. Be careful with meds. She stopped panting after we got home and was hosed off.

Our endurance mares pant in the humidity. We were at a ride the other day, extremely hot and humid. They were really panting. At each vet check their heart rate came down sooner than their respirations, which I actually hadn’t seen before, but we were told it was nothing to worry about.

Mine was panting yesterday too. I hadn’t seen her do that in a long time. It wasn’t the heat though - it was the lightning that was splitting the sky right above our heads and the thunder and torrential downpour out on the trail. She was really nervous but handling it fine until a competitive driver in a cart appeared on the trail in front of us and then she flipped her lid. I took a nice mud bath.

Ride management let us quit whenever we wanted and gave us credit for the ride anyway. We got to about 20 miles and we all decided to call it quits because it was just too dangerous out there. We went back to camp at a nice trot and walk but she was huffing and puffing and it took 15 minutes to get her respiration under control. The vet also told me not to worry. We just walked around and I talked quiet to her until she relaxed. Heartrate was okay but respiration wasn’t.

I wondered if you left camp before the storms hit, RR. We were there Sat. night and Sunday and it was nasty. The trails were flooded and washed out and Sweets almost went down twice, just at a trot. Some places were slicker than snot . A lot of the rocks were loose from the water undercutting them. A few times we went over some rocks and they tumbled out from under us and she stumbled all over the place. It was NOT a fun ride.

Apparently a tornado touched down downtown Palmyra Saturday night. The sirens were going off and the radio said to abandon all vehicles and seek shelter. :lol: Okay, so the horse trailer doesn’t count as shelter, I take it??

I was wondering how you did, A2. Believe it or not, I saw you pull in just as we were coming off the trail at the end of the ride. I meant to come looking for you. But we saw the storm coming up and hussled to get out of there ASAP. We actually didn’t quite beat it. Packed up some in the pouring rain and thunder, but we didn’t hit any tornadoes on the way out. So it rained on Sunday too?? That’s too bad you didn’t get to finish. Actually it is a nice trail, despite being a little rocky and sandy. I like it. The trail conditions were very good on Saturday because they had had some rain and the sand was firm. Of course the heat and humidity was terrible, (though I guess I prefer that to a thunderstorm) and our mares weren’t conditioned for even the medium hills there were, as we have zero hills to condition on. We weren’t fast, but we finished. It was kind of irking, as I had ridden that trail just four weeks ago and done it over an hour faster. But those were dangerous conditions, I’ve never seen Pasha pant like that.

I think they said you placed 3rd! :slight_smile: I couldn’t swear to it because I was busy talking but I sure thought they called your name for 3rd place.

Haha, I wondered where you were but when I stopped for the group of riders my only thought was finding Max and Jennifer. I wanted to park by them.

I’m glad you made it through safely though, that’s the main thing!!

We were so slow on that trail also. I was riding with Max and the 2 front runners blazed past us in a whir. Max said not to worry, we’d just go slow and ride to finish, if it took all 6 hours. As it turns out, both the fast runners got pulled for lameness. I felt bad for them, but those trails were not safe.

find an n derpass

I, too, I was wondering what I would/ should have done :confused:, had I have been on been on the road, ;trailers of any sort, are no match for:eek: a tornado; :yes: find a highway underpass, and, wait it out. :yes: I have found that when a storm is coming in, and the barometer changes , that respiration is higher,:yes: and horses do begin tying up;:eek: We, riders, horses, and vets experienced this c.1990; at the the eRadnor three day event;:yes: after which, research was done, which bore this out;:yes:

That would be 3rd in my weight division. I was 9th or 10th overall I believe. :wink: They give ribbons according to weight division. I could have quite a collection, as I’ve never not placed in my division, but we never stick around for them. The ones I have are ones that friends have gotten for me. Frontrunners usually do go by in a whir. I don’t understand how on a day that hot, the lead 50’s can pick up speed with every loop. But that’s what they do. We were on our way out the last loop, just poking along at about 6 mph, mares panting up a storm, and the lead horses blast by us at a gallop going the other way to the finish. I don’t understand how they did it in that horrid head and humidity. :confused: That’s one time where I really would have liked to have a HRM to see if our mares were really tired, or if they were just mentally out of it and their respirations were decieving us as to how hard they were working.

Well, if I’m not learning anything else so far in this sport, I am learning to not give a rip about what the front runners are doing. :lol: On two ocassions now, I’ve seen front runners pulled for lameness after they blazed by us on the trail. Another guy who is a good friend of mine who runs his horse really fast and wins almost every race - got pulled for lameness at his last ride. He was running 20 minutes ahead of everyone else and his horse just went three legged lame. He’s missed a couple of races now while the horse recovers. The horse is okay and could probably be back on the trail but he’s giving him plenty of time and he’s going to be really careful about bringing him back.

It does bug me when they go cruising past, I admit. Especially because I ride the breaks on my horse the whole ride. She has so much speed that I don’t even touch because she’d run herself to death. But all it takes is one nasty step to put you out for the whole season, or worse. Next year I want to start asking her for speed but I plan to do it gradually and only on GOOD trails.

I’m trying to learn how to save time in the vet checks instead. In looking back I can see where I’ve putzed around and wasted as much as 10 to 15 minutes in checks because I didn’t get pulsed in right away. My horse comes down almost immediately and I need to get my butt to the pulse checker right away but I end up doing too much sponging and walking and letting her eat and before I know it, there’s a line 4 horses deep and I’m at the end of it.

I have a book that says races are won and lost in the vet checks and boy do I believe that. :eek: At least it’s a fun goal to start working towards - refining the vet check process. :slight_smile:

A couple weeks ago I was on trail beside a girl almost the whole ride and she still managed to place 3 ahead of me even though we came into the vet check at the same time! Darn it, I was so mad. I somehow got bogged down and there she was cruising up to the pulse checker 3 horses ahead of me. LOL.

When I came into the vet checks I would stop about 100 yards out, dismount, loosen the girth and walk in. I would immediately go to the person checking pulse and get checked in. If you call for a check too early and the horse doesn’t pass you could not call for another within 10 minutes but luckly I always passed the first time so no time was wasted at the check in.
I was waiting at the exit gate for the hold to be over and I was off as soon as the timer let me go.

A horse that pulses down quickly is a huge advantage if you were ‘racing’ in a ride, really trying to win. Or even in a big ride where there were tons of horses at the vet checks. The two mares we ride now are not the fastest at pulsing down, their usual is 4-5 minutes. If they’re stressed or we’ve brought them in hot, they take longer. I know there are horses that take longer than that, but there are plenty that are down quicker too. I did a season of LD’s on my little Arab mare in 2006, and could that horse ever pulse down. It was amazing. I remember one time I was riding with someone (they were sponsering me), who was going faster than I thought they would. I brought that little horse in so hot and tired at a vet check, I thought for sure she’d take forever to pulse down. But it seemed like I had hardly stripped off her tack and gotten a little water on her when they came racing over, stuck one of those fancy, hand-held HRM on her and said “58, get her over there”. I couldnt’ have been more shocked. Anyways, the vet check is a good place to make or lose time. It’s so easy to "putz’ around and get out 10 minutes late. That’s an area we’re still working on too.

STrider often ran with a heart rate monitor and I cruised along at about 135 and trying not to let it run over 150. When I approached the gate and got off you could just see the pulse dropping immediately. With the loose girth and the walk it dropped to the low 60’s before I hit the gate and I could call immediately.
They do require you to turn the monitor off while they are checking.

This is off topic, but it’s actually quite dangerous to be in an underpass in a tornado. The wind will rip through there strongly enough to actually tear you out of it, plus debris will be blowing through. Due to the tunnel effect, the wind can actually be stronger in the underpass than outside!

If you’re caught on a road during a tornado, your best bet is to abandon your vehicle and find a small ditch or depression, lay face down in it, and cover your head. The wind will pass over you that way (hopefully, anyway). If you’re trailering, let your horses out of the trailer first. I knew some people who had to do that when the F4 tornado hit Colorado here recently. They just pulled off on the shoulder, let their horses out, and laid down in a ditch. Luckily they were unharmed and they found their horses about a mile off, also unharmed except for some minor scratches.

I’m glad you were both safe, RR and A2.