Farrier Frustrations...what to do? Update MRI needed?

[Critter]

Looking for general thoughts about what to do…so I had used my old farrier for about 23 years. In that time, I really had very few shoes pulled and no lameness issues related to a “bad” shoeing. He was great with the horses and the horses were great for him.

Back in March he fell off a ladder and dislocated his shoulder. Another farrier (who had filled in before) came and covered for him for 2 shoeings for my 3 horses. But it was almost 3 weeks later than when they were due. My mare grows dinner plate hooves…so covering farrier bumps her to a size 3 instead of a 2 shoe.

That farrier covers 2 appointments so about 5-6 weeks apart. Call my old farrier to see if he’s on the mend…he basically says, thanks you’ve been a great client but I am only going to do trims locally from now on.

Ouch…23 years and that was that (and I am a client that pays in full every appointment, never cancels, has generally easy horses). So I ask fill in farrier and vet for recommendations (as fill in was not wanting to add new clients)…they suggest someone.

That person has now done 2 appointments. First appointment, they were super slow…and my horses were getting a bit impatient. She did smack them with the rasp…which is a huge no for me. They didn’t hit them hard…and a little correction was needed, but I am anti using the rasp to do it. So I wasn’t really happy, but didn’t have lots of options. Decided to give them one more try…the next time they were faster and no correction was needed, since my horses didn’t get impatient.

Now, the real issue…it’s not even 5 weeks from the last appointment…and two of my horses have both tossed shoes (they do wear fly boots and don’t run much). My other horse, with the dinner plate feet, has now come up very lame…vet out and blocked her. It’s all the foot and there is a ton of toe and she is now bringing in a different farrier to “fix” the issues (the one that filled in and put the bigger shoe on in the first place, which took us down the path of her now being lame).

UGH. I have 3 horses and all 3 are currently not rideable due to shoe issues.

Should I keep looking for a different farrier?? I am not happy…but I am not sure I would be happy with anyone new given that I wasn’t planning on moving on from my old farrier. But having all 3 having issues keeping shoes on and staying sound is a real problem.

[luvmyhackney]

Could you have the old farrier out to show the new farrier what he does to trim horse and keep them sound?

Farriers are so hard to find, especially good ones. Or even haul to old farrier if that’s an option.

[RedHorses]

Did you explain the shoe size change on the dinner plate hoofed horse to the new farrier (or the vet who wants the responsible farrier back)?

Did any of the horses lose shoes on round one?

Can you see the lost shoe horses’ feet are developing problems?

I read an article written by a farrier that said it can take a year for a farrier to really dial in what they need to do for a new horse.I would talk to the farrier about these things and see what they can offer you. In the process is there anything obvious to you that #3 does differently from farrier #1 that you could mention (like #1 hot shoed, #3 cold shoes)?

Sometimes how the farrier answers will tell you if you should find someone else. I had a friend who’s horse was foot sore for 3-4 days after each trim, and perfectly happy barefoot for the next 5 1/2 weeks. The farrier said all they could do was put shoes on. Obviously a new farrier was required in this case.

[trubandloki]

When my farrier retired I started using a farrier that came very recommended by some very well respected people.
I gave them a year of regular visits and then I had to get a different farrier. That farrier’s trimming style was just not working with my horse’s feet and my horse was going from having great feet to having underrun heels and crazy long toes.
During that year we had several discussions where I pointed out that I was worried about the long toes and the heels, but nothing ever changed.

It is hard to find a good farrier!

[Warmblood1]

The American Farrier’s Association has a search by location option where you can find CJFs near you.

Link

I would see if you can find another CJF with a good reputation in your area.

[Critter]

Yes…told both the temp farrier and the one I switched to about the shoe size…also told them that my mare was starting to trip a lot more (not an issue before the shoe size change). So had that conversation with both.

Shoes stay on the first time…now both lost a shoe…and their other shoes are loose as of today. Was able to get the farrier to come out tomorrow at least…but this is only 4 1/2 weeks. Nothing overly different in the process…old farrier did cold shoe, and so does this one. The one gelding who tends towards a low heel, long toe…is looking longer and lower than old farrier kept him. And we had him in a special beval shoe that new farrier doesn’t carry…so after we couldn’t reset the shoes anymore, they had to go back to a regular shoe.

Old farrier is still not doing full work from his injury…I actually sent him a text this morning with a few other names of farriers in the area, and he did reply with the one he would go with. I was also at the farthest distance of his clients, so traveling to him isn’t an option, even if he was back to shoeing again.

@Warmblood1 thanks for the link…one name the old farrier mentioned is on there. Problem is my vet wasn’t a huge fan of that group. She did say they were fine with the shoes…but tended to push the vets they were connected with. So I didn’t initially go with that group because my vet was hesitant on being able to work with them is a problem came up. However, if they do a decent job shoeing…there isn’t as much likelihood an issue will come up! I think I might just take the chance and go with that group as they are quite experienced.

[SusanO]

How low is the farrier nailing? I had a farrier once (moved on from him) that always had loose shoes because he was terrified of quicking a horse and nailed very low on the hoof. One time after he finished and was driving down the road I turned my mare out and she cantered off and then I saw it - her shoe was flying through the air. It was gone before he drove out of sight. She did not have any foot problems at this stage of her life so that was unacceptable. I didn’t know what was going on until I took her to the vet and the farriers there looked at her feet, removed her shoes, and threw them in the trash. Nice guy though. Just a lousy farrier. I feel your pain.

[4horses]

I have tried about 5 farriers and ended up trimming them myself. I know how to do it but I would rather hire someone. The problem is, most people don’t do it right.

Fortunately my horses are well behaved and I’ve finally gotten faster at trimming so they are happy.

My 2 yr old this morning made me smile. I finished trimming one hind foot, and put it down. He picked up the other hind foot, stretched it out behind him and put it right in the hood stand. All by himself. Yesterday he wanted nothing to do with having his feet trimmed. The bugs were biting him and a storm was moving in with lightning.

I would definitely try another farrier.

[Festivity]

It’s great when they decide to work with you! I’ve found with trimming all of mine that if I do just two feet, either both fronts of both hinds, rather than trying to do all 4 in one go everyone is happier. I don’t end up as sore/tired and they don’t get bored when I’m slow. Plus then I don’t spend all day trimming feet. As long as my are barefoot and I’m able, I’m trimming my own.

Hopefully those that don’t have that luxury manage to find a good farrier.

[Libby2563]

@Warmblood1

The American Farrier’s Association has a search by location option where you can find CJFs near you.

Link

I would see if you can find another CJF with a good reputation in your area.

Just a caution… this is my horse at the end of two cycles with a CJF who also had some fancy technical endorsements:

I’m not sure if it’s true but I’ve been told that the CJF exam is more about crafting fancy shoes than doing a good, functional trim. Actually yeah, if you look at this link about the exam there is barely a mention of the trim or hoof balance, though maybe that’s covered at the lower certification levels: https://cdn.ymaws.com/americanfarriers.org/resource/resmgr/pdf/2018_certified_journeyman_fa.pdf. In any case, after my experience I might use certification as a starting point but definitely not the whole story.

I think farrier issues may be the single hardest part of horse ownership, honestly. Even people with good credentials and good recommendations can be a terrible fit, at your horse’s expense. Meanwhile many vets aren’t very knowledgeable about feet or don’t want to bash the farrier. It’s a mess. I am thinking of jumping on the learn-to-DIY bandwagon, though I don’t know if I could manage that with an eventer who needs studs.

[TWH_Girl]

Wow! That’s ugly. I loathe farrier issues too.

[Critter]

Wow @Libby2563 that’s bad…worse than mine are looking.

@SusanO the one horse did have some low nails. I also noticed she had a tendency to put nails in and start to finish the foot and then take a nail out. Every foot she would take at least one nail out that she had put in. Not something I ever saw my old farrier do…granted sometimes he would take a nail out, but usually it was mid way through nailing it, and he would grab a new nail or do a different placement. But never take it completely out after starting to finish the foot.

I have to take some pics of my mare. Poor girl was very sore today and tripping badly on her toes. Supposed to have the other farrier coming Thursday to do what the vet has suggested.

[Larbear]

Wow yeh that’s bad!

[RedHorses]

@Libby2563

Even people with good credentials and good recommendations can be a terrible fit

I’ve found that no one wants to admit their farrier isn’t doing good things for their horse’s feet. Everyone says “it’s so hard to find a good farrier, and I’m fortunate to have found mine.” Even when their horse’s feet are cringe worthy.

[trubandloki]

@RedHorses

Everyone says it’s so hard to find a good farrier,

It is so hard to find a good farrier!

I had an amazing farrier for a very long time. He was just amazing. My horses all loved him too.

Then he retired.

I figured finding a new farrier would not be that hard, I mean, heck, how hard can it be when there are farriers advertising on our local horse related facebook group and there is a very active horse community locally…

It is hard.
It is like finding a good hay supplier.

Even harder when you only have a couple horses.

So very many people who love their farrier are not willing to give you their farrier’s information. A concept I have never understood.

Again, when I had my amazing farrier I did not get why people acted like it was hard to get a good farrier. I learned how wrong my thought was when I had to find a new farrier.

[Warmblood1]

For sure, I was in no way implying that because someone is a CJF, they are a a good farrier or that they have the business skills needed to run a business. However, it does mean that the individual has some education, which is better than some farriers who have absolutely none. Much like being an M.D. doesn’t mean you are a competent, compassionate doctor. Much of finding a farrier is going through a few farriers, and being able to find them is often difficult. Hence why search by location functions are often helpful.

[luvmyhackney]

I just sent my farrier a note of appreciation after seeing these pictures. I’m blessed with two really good barefoot farriers/trimmers local to me.

[Critter]

Took some pics of my mare today so that I can keep a more accurate record of how things are looking as we make changes the vet suggested. Have the vet’s preferred farrier coming tomorrow…though this farrier isn’t my choice because she won’t even tell me what time she is coming tomorrow…says she hasn’t figured out her schedule for tomorrow yet. I would be fine if it was a window of time (ie will come between 2-4)…but I can’t even get that from them.

This is just 5 weeks…and yes, that big chunk out of the foot was cut out by the new farrier on the first appointment…10-11 weeks ago. My mare has always gotten small toe cracks when she gets too long. Because we went extra long between farriers it became a large toe crack. Old farrier and fill in (vet’s) farrier, didn’t want to touch it. New farrier just chopped it all out…and by the time I realized what she was doing it was too late.

[fivestrideline]

I may have already commented on your horse (I can’t recall), but generally why the long toe + shoe fit full to the toe + no heel support? Why is this so common??? I totally understand not wanting to risk pulled shoes with too much hanging out the back but… Yeesh. The more I learn (and I am NOT a farrier, just learning) the more I wonder what they teach at farrier school.

I’ve had two good farriers, neither of which I can get to these days. One was actually my vet - he went to farrier school after deciding to learn more about hooves and internal structures and struggling with finding farriers that would work with him. The other was a barefoot trimmer turned farrier, so a lot of the ideas from that world transferred into the shoeing.

These days I’m learning to touch up trim and apply my own glue ons because I am struggling with access to good farriers. I’m so close to taking the plunge and committing to learning to trim. Every horse in the barn has come up lame or sore two shoe/trim cycles in a row EXCEPT for the one I’m doing glue ons with and touching up… something isn’t working.

[Critter]

So vet’s farrier trimmed and did some 3D pads on 8/29. Feet do look much better. Gave my girl some bute for a few days as per vet instructions. No bute the last 2 days as she was walking sound. Today I put her on the lunge just to see what she looked like at the trot (not to work her, but just to assess). Still quite lame.

Ugh. Vet said if the shoe change didn’t help we may need to MRI.

For those who have done a MRI…was it worth it? Did it change your treatment plan? If I assume she has a soft tissue injury in the foot, can I just manage her that way and save having to do the MRI/anesthesia?

Waiting for the vet to respond with next steps after I sent her the video this morning. I am also switching to a different farrier group for the next time.

Pics from after the pads got put on.