Fatty Fatty McFatterson (e.g. feeding the now metabolic horse)

[Alterration]

One of my horses used to be relatively slender. He had been in a normal 2-3 flakes twice a day boarding situation, and I brought him home. He got to a nice weight and stayed that way for 2 years.

Over this winter I was gone for 3 months due to work, and my help decided to give him extra hay on the ground in his stall (“because he was eating it”) in addition to his full 24/7 hay nets and alfalfa that he was getting to buffer his stomach.

When I got home I found him to be supremely rotund. Fat deposits. Jiggly bits. Not sure if it was just the excess calories or him turning 12. Anyway. Fatty fatty McFatterson needs a new plan. I’ve already axed the extra ground hay and alfalfa, but now we need to lose the extra lbs accumulated.

He is in a herd on a large dry lot and I have multiple slow feed nets outside. Slow feed net when he is inside. Hay is just a regular medium-low quality grass hay, but it is accessible at all times.

He is the biggest eater in my herd. His bag is always empty at night check whereas the others have only eaten a flake or two. I have nibble net xls that hold roughly half a 45 lb square bale. So between the hay outside and inside I’ll bet he is eating 35-40 lbs of hay a day. He is 16h, and a saddlebred, so not a behemoth. At 1100 lbs that’s twice the calories he should be getting (estimated).

Other than that he gets a little beet pulp to carry a custom vitamin/mineral mix plus salt.

I really do not want to cut his hay back any, is the only alternative soaking it? I can’t think of anything else, but I wanted to check to see if anyone else had good ideas or I’d missed something. I am increasing exercise now that I’m home but that is hit or miss given the weather.

I’ve moved the hay bags to the far end of the field from the trough so they have to walk back and forth for water. I could potentially open a small strip to make more of a circular track but that strip is grassy so I’d either have to wait until it was more mature or remove the grass which is a hefty undertaking.

Soaking the hay is possible but such a pain. My helper works two days a week and while she is a wonderful person, she is not good with directions and new things are a challenge. I cringe at this task, but will do it if necessary.

Plus, he would still get unsoaked hay outside unless I divided up the paddocks again, which would reduce his exercise. And he loves his herd.

I really don’t want to have to do meds yet. Is the only alternative getting my butt out there and doing trot sets? (And no, I know that’s not the only form of exercise - this is frustrated hyperbole…lol) sigh it would be good for both of us but we have both been slacking lately so it’s an uphill battle. Any additional ideas are welcome!

[Needanothercupofcoffee]

What about a “slower” slow feed hay net? I have a gutzbusta 3/4” inch hole knot-less hay net that slows my fatty way down. Though I feed soft second cutting hay due to hind gut issues , anything more course may simply be too difficult for horse to get anything at all out.

[Needanothercupofcoffee]

Also maybe a grazing muzzle? That would restrict intake of grass and hay

[Alterration]

He doesn’t get any grass at present and his slow feed net is at 1.5”. It already causes some frustration so I’d have to go smaller I guess.

Do grazing muzzles work with hay nets? Do you know of one that an equine Houdini can not outwit?

[LilDunFilly]

Unfortunately, the only way to really loose weight is fewer calories, more excercise, medication designed for weight loss (which they don’t have for horses), or medical issue. Soaking should help with some of those calories. You could also try a more low-calorie hay for his nets (if available in your area). Some people feed straw as a supreme low-calorie boredom buster.

I’ve met a few horses who could gain and then drop weight relatively easy. Most though, in my experience, tend to hold on to weight once they’ve got it. If he is truly Round, he might need a little bit more encouragment than just cutting out the extra food he was getting.

I’ve met one horse who had a grazing muzzle + a slow feeder. He was a mini and obese. He was only supposed to get half a flake per feeding, but he’d hoover it down so extreme measures had to be taken. What finally got most of the weight off was actual excercise. I’ve never had to use a muzzle personally, but people say good things about Green Guard ones. I think there is an active thread about them atm.

[barnesthenoble]

Could you add barley straw or something similar to his stall hay nets? I know someone who has a very fat mustang and a donkey who successfully mixes Standlee straw into their hay nets to help keep weight down.

[Feathered_Feet]

Is he actually metabolic (as assessed via bloodwork) or just fat? If metabolic, your vet should be involved in coming up with a plan. If just fat, then everything you and others have suggested (soaking, smaller hole hay nets, smaller but frequent meals).

More exercise, but in my experience a real, structured fitness program is more work than many people realize/want to do (but it’s not hard - the eventers do it all the time).

The other option is to re-configure your set up to be on a track system, as that seems to encourage more movement (especially if on a dry lot). Hay bags at regular spacing, obstacles such as logs to negotiate, water at the opposite end, etc. Or put him in a smaller herd with some young, playful types that might keep him moving more. But, depending on your set up, that is almost certainly more difficult than the usual diet + exercise.

[FjordBCRF]

@Alterration

Do grazing muzzles work with hay nets? Do you know of one that an equine Houdini can not outwit?

They sure do, I know a few people who have gone this route. However, if there isnt any grass to limit, I would double bag the hay nets OR get super slow feed 1" or 3/4" nets. I found there was a shocking difference between the rate of consumption with a 1.5" vs a 1". Hay chix makes them and they hold up amazingly well.

@Alterration

I really do not want to cut his hay back any, is the only alternative soaking it?

You’re going to have to unless you can really amp up his physical activity. My fjord got a little porky last year even on limited everything. When we moved to our current barn in October, I wanted to he how he settled in before changing anything hay wise. He maintained just fine so that was a step in the right direction, but were into month two now of me weighing all his hay nets ensuring he’s getting 2% of his ideal body weight and he’s lost close to 100 pounds on the tape since the end of January and much more trim in the belly region.

I just finished a course at UMN on keeping easy keeping horses as well. To my current knowledge, soaking will reduce the sugar, so important if metabolic. I imagine with soaking it will prob bring the calorie content down some, but soaking is really recommended on that sugar level. And unless you test your hay and know what THAT is, youre shooting fish in a barrel. I have not heard that soaking reduces anything significant in terms of calories but Im open to being corrected on that. Soaking would have been my last resort if cutting him back to a fair % for his ideal weight didn’t get us very far, but it is.

40 pounds of hay is a ton for an easy keeper. Don’t forget that if you are aiming to feed at a body weight %, it should be off their IDEAL weight and not current. if I were in your shoes, I’d cut him back on the hay AND slow him down to start. My guy is now and 1100ish (down from 1200ish) pound fjord gets a whopping 14 lbs of hay, 4 pounds of Unbeetable pellets in his auto feeder to keep something in his stomach when the hay runs out. Thats 2% of an ideal 1000lb weight on him. The rest is for his measly amount of beet pulp +VMS and no sugar treats. He seems to get enough small meals going through is system that he (thankfully) seems agreeable to his set lifestyle.

I would also recommended you test your hay if you aren’t already. Some first cut can be well below the recommended 12% NSC, but I have seen other fields that test close to 20% on first. I heard from the vet that there have been a lot more laminitis cases this years and its looking like a lot of people may have had higher NSC first cut because of our wacky spring last year. I see him next week and want to ask him personally if people are speculating or actually testing their hay.

We are big fans of the GreenGuard muzzle when we have had to use one.

[islgrl]

Have you tested your hay for NSC? If its below 12 there is little point in soaking it…

[lenapesadie]

@Alterration

Do grazing muzzles work with hay nets? Do you know of one that an equine Houdini can not outwit?

Both of my horses wear GreenGuard muzzles when on the grass. My Houdini horse doesn’t get his off once I get it adjusted correctly.

I keep hay in OG Nibble Nets (2” holes) in my dry lot. Currently I have horses in the dry lot overnight and out on the grass during the day. So in the mornings I put the muzzles on after breakfast and open the gate to whichever pasture they are grazing that day. 99% of the time there is still some hay in the nibble nets. On occasion my horses will chose to come pick at the hay with their grazing muzzles on. Both of mine are able to get some hay like this.

35-40 lbs of hay is too much for an overweight 1100 lbs horse. Somehow you need to cut that back.

If he’s truly metabolic on his blood work, he probably also needs to start medication. He may feel better and loose weight more easily if he’s medicated for whatever metabolic disorder? Though metabolic is such a catch phrase this day. My vets classify anhidrosis as a metabolic disorder but there really isn’t a good medical treatment for anhidrosis, just varying supps and management.

[Alterration]

Haven’t tested him yet - will be part of the spring workup once the vets do shots - but he is exhibiting the traits of a metabolic horse. He’d been slim his whole life - like “feed this horse the grain” kind of slim, and all of a sudden he went “poof” and ballooned up. That, plus the fat deposits, typically means at least IR in my past experiences. He also seems very hungry constantly, which (again, just my experience) has been the beginning of metabolic issues.

What I meant by restricting hay is that I don’t mind if he eats less of it, I just don’t want him standing around without access to it. He’s just consuming it quickly despite the slow feed net, especially if he’s in the stall at night, which he has been in order to give my hard keeper access to alfalfa hay. Fatty will stand there and eat the whole bag of grass hay with very little napping/snoozing.

He is a high energy personalitied horse with self-mutilation tendencies when frustrated or confined and the access to hay keeps him from winding himself up. I think I need to add more enrichment and maybe finish the track - I have to get some electric up on the side nearest the road, and there’s a drainage grate I need to figure out how to cover - not foot entrapping, but it would have the potential for ripping off shoes. That might provide him some additional “things to do”, and I’d muzzle him once that section was completed - though the 4 of them will have that grazed down in no time, that portion isn’t a huge section, it’s just the last little bit that completes the circle of the track. The trees are starting to bud, and he’s been interested in browsing those, which is good - keeps him busy.

He is already in with the young dingbat of a horse, we only have 4 on the property at the moment. I’m not sure the dingbat makes him move, it’s more of the opposite. He’s a very dominant horse in the herd, at present second in command, and is frequently the cause of the rest of them galloping away and him following at the walk making ugly faces.

I think he needs to go back out at night (they are on 12/12 currently) which might also help. It’s just tricky because a. it’s popup storm season here, and they don’t have shelter in the pasture. b. my senior horse needs to eat 10+ lbs of alfalfa to maintain HIS weight, which I do in his stall and he is the slowest eater on earth, so then everyone would have to stay in to keep him from flipping out and not eating. I can’t think of a combo where someone wouldn’t be extremely upset that they were either not inside or outside if any of the others were.

He’s my zip tie popping, gate untying, fence dismantling, horse. He’s alert and one of the watchdogs of the farm, but that’s definitely not enough energy expended. I think the track would help them move as I know they spend a lot more time galloping on that straightaway since occasional cars and the neighbor’s chihuahuas provide “excitement”.

Exercise will really be the key, which is really is fine despite my grousing, will just have to balance the fact that he’s been a couch potato all winter with where we’re at right now. I’m out of shape too, so we’re both going to be grumbly for awhile

[cayuse]

Like Feathered_Feet said, I’d check him to see if he is actually metabolic or just hefty and come up with plan based on that. My two ponies are metabolic/Insusin resistant. If he’s IR and the vet starts him on Metformin or Insulin Wise he may loose a little weight from those meds aside from what he would loose on a diet alone. Mine did and the vet said some do on those meds for whatever reason.
Feeding hay by weight is not a bad idea 1.5 to 2 lbs of hay/100 lbs of body weight. I know you don’t want to cut back on the amount but sometimes it’s the only way.
And the exercise, those trot sets will help .

[Alterration]

@lenapesadie

Both of my horses wear GreenGuard muzzles when on the grass. My Houdini horse doesn’t get his off once I get it adjusted correctly.

Good to know - I’ll give that a shot. He’s a horse who managed to get his whole blanket off a few weeks ago…no tears…all straps intact…(including criss crossed hind leg straps) so this is going to definitely be a trick.

I love having a smart horse…I love having a smart horse…I love having a smart horse… LOL

[Alterration]

@FjordBCRF

I would also recommended you test your hay if you aren’t already. Some first cut can be well below the recommended 12% NSC, but I have seen other fields that test close to 20% on first. I heard from the vet that there have been a lot more laminitis cases this years and its looking like a lot of people may have had higher NSC first cut because of our wacky spring last year. I see him next week and want to ask him personally if people are speculating or actually testing their hay.

It wuld be good to know. I have to test - my hay guy is great but I suspect that our hay this year was higher NSC. Other than the increased amount (which was really only a flake or two at night) fed it doesn’t seem like it makes sense to go from 0-100 on the fatty scale for him in 3 months. That’s really only a few thousand extra calories a day and it was cold (and he was unblanketed as he broke his sheet two weeks after I left and my spares were all shot).

The hay guy delivers my hay in smaller loads (he stacks it in the loft too - he’s an absolute gem and I pray he never retires), and this is still last year’s so I’m assuming this is second cutting but it could be first cutting from the back of the barn. It was low NSC the two year before but I didn’t test last year because it had been pretty consistent. I should have, given the weird hay years that we’ve been having. I have the corer and everything.

Even so - this year’s hay will be different yet again. Blergh.

[NaturallyHappy]

I have one in my barn who gains weight FAST! He now wears a Thinline Flexible Filly muzzle year around…even if we have snow.

[Cassi1125]

@Alterration - As someone else suggested, try mixing straw in with the hay, or replacing some of the outside hay with the straw. (That person mentioned barley straw. There have been studies using wheat straw vs. oat straw. However, the study strongly recommended not using oat straw because it is a crop planted many times as a rotating crop for alfalfa fields, and the underlying alfalfa ends up mixed with the oat straw. Wheat is a stand-alone crop, so no alfalfa underlying the wheat.) There are a couple of IR horses at the barn that are now having wheat straw mixed with grassier hay and/or soaked hay, but they seem to like it.

Note sure if this link to a page of articles will work, but here you go: https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&q=feeding+straw+to+horses&ia=web

[Alterration]

Hmmm…I think straw might be out. He has very mild respiratory issues (COPD) so I don’t want to aggravate that.

I’ve just purchased a smaller smaller hole slow feed net for the stall. I’ll try that on nights he has to be in.

I also purchased a muzzle, and hopefully we can start our renewed exercise plan today. I’ve got a friend coming over who can ride my spare so maybe we can even start riding out in a few weeks after we both have our sea legs back. We’ve only had very short arena rides in the cold and wind since that’s not great weather for really restarting in a calm manner since he is a very alert and excitable horse in the wind. If we can keep it up, it’ll be fine in the fall and winter, it’s just the fact that we’re really just getting going again.

Hopefully I can report back good progress. He’s such a good boy and I would hate to see him suffer from weight related issues!

[IPEsq]

Definitely test his blood. Insulin levels tend to be higher Dec-Feb anyway, and perhaps time of year plus extra pounds put him over the edge. I would also test the hay before going through the soaking exercise. Soaked hay and Nibble Nets can get gross. But a smaller hole and a smaller bag might be necessary at night. Do you do a night check? When do they come into the barn? Any way to have some gaps in what he is eating maybe earlier in the evening and then another little bit of hay at night check?

There’s also some evidence that as little as 15-20 mins of trotting 4x a week can go a long way to help with weight loss provided his insulin is under control. But he is still eating far too much for his size.

I’ve got a horse who could always gain easily but he could also lose easily (like, take him to a show for a week or a long trailer ride and he’d lose noticeable weight). He was laid up due to injury for a long time. He was on a bit of a diet with lower calorie options but still got a decent amount of hay (as I didn’t want to develop stall vices on stall rest, although the whole time he is good about regulating and won’t clean up just because it’s there if you overfeed). He put on some fat deposits and his insulin got out of control though, and we have had to do medication for that. I’ve only cut out one small flake from his already calculated diet ration. Hay is already low sugar. And he has lost over 80lbs in 3 months. He was in mostly regular work this whole time though (but less than pre-injury). The exercise just wasn’t taking the weight off without getting the negative feedback loop that elevated his insulin under control. He is now back to pre-injury weight although could stand to lose a little more fat on his neck and put on some more muscle on his back. He’s also just turned 12.

[Cassi1125]

OK, tho might be an idea to check w/your vet to see what he/she thinks straw would aggravate any latent breathing issues. The straw we’ve gotten doesn’t seem to leave that chaff-type residue that hay does, but YMMV. Good luck to you and your horse!!

[Alterration]

@IPEsq

Definitely test his blood. Insulin levels tend to be higher Dec-Feb anyway, and perhaps time of year plus extra pounds put him over the edge. I would also test the hay before going through the soaking exercise. Soaked hay and Nibble Nets can get gross. But a smaller hole and a smaller bag might be necessary at night. Do you do a night check? When do they come into the barn? Any way to have some gaps in what he is eating maybe earlier in the evening and then another little bit of hay at night check?

There’s also some evidence that as little as 15-20 mins of trotting 4x a week can go a long way to help with weight loss provided his insulin is under control. But he is still eating far too much for his size.

The new hay net that I purchased isn’t a nibble net, but more of the swinging 1" hole slow feeder - more like a normal net. I also have a theory that he’s able to eat from the current nibble net too easily because it pins against the wall easily - I have another horse that has a wider hole haynet that dangles because of the rope, and that seems to swing and be harder to eat from. I’d give him that one to try, but the horse that has the wider hole hay net needs the wider holes.

Routine when in at night:
Basically his current routine is out by 8am with slow feed nets in the paddock. They come in around 5-6pm depending on when I get my act in gear and get the stalls done - if I’m not done by 6, they are standing at the gate tapping their hooves LOL. Yes, I can change that, but man oh man, the drama.

In the stall he has a nibble net, full. I do night check at 9:30 -10 and by then the nibble netxl is almost if not completely empty. He’s the only one who also cleans up the stuff that falls out - everyone else wastes it. So typically I’ll refill all the nets, his included.

By 8 am the next morning, it’s empty again.

My goal has always been able to ensure they don’t go more than 4 hours without hay. If I back down on hay quantity, I won’t be sure of that unless the morning feeding is earlier, which might be hard on days with my helper (she does mornings two days a week) as she is NOT an early riser. I get out there generally a bit earlier.

Routine when out:
If they are out, they come in at 7-8 am for feeding (I feed both meals in one meal) and then they are back out by 8-9. Around 3-4 I take out more hay and refill the slow feeders, and then do the same thing again at night check around 9:30-10.

I like the outside routine as the slow feed hay nets outside don’t seem to get scarfed down as quickly (e.g. I’m topping them off as opposed to refilling them completely), but my hard keeping cribbing senior was having some trouble consuming enough feed to keep his condition and was appearing stressed (much more cribbing). Some of it was - he’s so slow at eating in the morning that two meals in one wasn’t getting completely consumed, and my helper is always in a hurry.

Bringing them all inside at night allowed the hard keeping cribbing senior to eat alfalfa in the stall and not crib as much (and sleep laying down, which he won’t do outside), but that doesn’t help the fatty. The hard keeping senior chews every bite 500 times, so it takes him all night to eat 10 lbs of alfalfa. His teeth are still good (he’s only 19) but he is just a very very slow eater who enjoys smoking between every bite. Yes, he has been treated for ulcers, I actually think his is related to DSLD (yes, diagnosed, we went through all the treatments and while one suspensory lesion healed, the other really didn’t) and I’m not sure how many years we have left, but he’s still galloping around like a doof at times so I’m not sure it’s time just yet.

While they are in, I’m thinking the smaller holed, smaller sized, hay net might help at least stretch things so that if he does finish his hay it won’t be before 3am even if I refill it at night check. Or, the other option is to find a way to get a lot more calories in the senior that he’ll actually eat in a reasonable timeframe. OR see if I can leave the senior in with another one of my horses who is kind of a doof, and turn the other two back out, but that may cause some issues.

My horses greatly prefer being in the barn at night - even when there’s lovelier feed outside. They’ve made their preferences very clear - they all have large (21’ wide) stalls and they can touch each other and hang heads out, so they are very horse-friendly. But I think they like having their own feed and remaining safe from the myriad of noises and jockeying for position at the haybags.