So what worked??? The suspense has me on the edge of my seat? Dying of curiosity.
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One note: I donāt remember if you said that the horse in question is a stock horse or has Western trainingā¦ But if he is, be careful how you switch your whip hand. The standard twirl over the horseās neck can be VERY frightening to such a horse. I know from having done that once, turning onto the diagonal on a QH who was otherwise a pleasant rideā¦ He took off bucking, I got imbalanced and only made things worse by tapping him with the whip with every stride, until my instructor yelled ādrop your whip!ā and the poor old guy halted.
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Well, we had a good frank discussion about forward.
I was initially not sure about doing transitions as a way to get the horse forward but I tried it. And it helped.
I longed the horse last week and made sure that he understood that if he didnāt go when asked, there would be repercussions. (those being the sound of the whip in the airā¦no hitting of the horse was involved)
The other thing that really helped a lot was leg yield along the wall with his head turned to the wall. That demonstrated particularly wll to the rider how behind the leg he was.
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Thankfully his only beef with the whip is when it asks him to work harder, lol. Otherwise you could light a bomb and heās ok.
One thing that may help the rider is to use patterns of poles and/or cones in the arena. The focus then becomes making transitions and shapes to get around or go over the obstacle. This shifts the riderās attention away from āgetting it rightā or whether something might go wrong. The need for āforwardā is also very obvious.
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This really helps me and my Friesian who starts off behind the leg
I am sorry I am late in reading this thread.
I ride lesson horses, who are usually quiet enough for beginners and behind the leg. These lesson horses also deeply resent when I use the whip even when my whip aid is correctly timed.
I found if I use the whip to hit MY half chaps that the horses respond to the sound, give me a result, and they do not resent it at all.
The rare time that I use the whip itself to tap (or harder) these lesson horsesā barrels, they resent it and suck back, go slower, and stop moving forward freely.
So nowadays I may actually hit the horse with the whip behind the leg once a month or two, mainly to remind the horse that I can get āmeanerā. When I do hit the horse with the whip the horse sucks back, then I go back to hitting my half-chap and the horse HEARS the whip hitting my leg, and responds by giving me more forward.
These lesson horses have ranged from āwhy in the world should I ever move fasterā to āOMG I have to get out of hereā in reaction to my well timed leg aids. Both types respond better to my whip aid if I hit my half-chaps instead of the horsesā barrels.
If the horse is extra sticky I do tap the horse on the top of the croup on the side of the leg pushing us forward when their croup on that side is at its highest. It is a light tap, makes a little bit of sound, and I rarely use it more than three times in a row. Then I go back to using my aid and making sure that my seat is light enough in the saddle so that the horsesā backs can move easily.
Oh, for the tap on the top of the croup, make SURE to do it on the outer part of the top of the croup. The French dressage masters use the whip on the center of the croup (as in a line from the cantle to the tail) as a signal to kick out spectacularly.
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If your horse is sucking back from being tapped in the barrel, they were either conditioned to do that or your timing is off.
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As I said I am riding lesson horses, lesson horses who are suitable for beginnerās totally uneducated legs, who require a āPony Club kickā to get moving at all.
These beginners also have no idea about the proper timing of any of the aids. The horses tune out what the horses consider meaningless background noise, totally ignorable, whether leg or whip.
Yes, these beginner lesson horses have been conditioned to ignore leg aids. It usually takes me 3 thirty minute lessons once a week then they hear my leg aids fine, mainly because the horses learn that MY leg aids do mean something and that I will give the horse the freedom to move forward.
The biggest key to my success in training these dull sided lesson horses to my leg aids is that I ALWAYS give their heads room so that the horse does not get a SLOW DOWN aid at the same time I am telling the horse to move with more impulse and drive from its hind legs.
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I learned on a great schoolmaster: the whip aids donāt have to mean touch happens. You can use it:
- visually: out sideways or straight up and down in front of your face (um, effective, but at your own risk). Movement in the horseās peripheral vision is the aid
- audibly: popping against your boot or whistling out to the side. Best if youāre the only rider in the ring, otherwise youāre aiding your peers into hating you.
The only goal is the right reaction. Either of the above work great on the jaded been-there-done-that horse in a way that doesnāt require you to escalate aids.
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I like that jackie-cochran, and will give it a try.
Part of my issue is definitely fear. I am borderline afraid of the forward reaction a whip aid will elicit, so I most likely tense up and give mixed signals. When I first got this horse we were on our own for a long time and while heās super safe, he was super ignorant of a leg on riding style. Contact was a non starter. That coupled with a re-riders middle aged fearā¦ well, we havenāt made it very far in 5 years 
Iām finding success in riding a very forward (for me) lesson horse. Heās a lesson horse, so heās very tolerant of mistakes. But heās also forward, so I can comfortably get used to that feeling. Itās been fun, and I really hope will translate to better rides with my gelding.
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Just remember that if your horse has not given you forward that his initial attempts may involve some lurching or the feeling that maybe the horse is coming out of a slingshot. When in doubt about the horseās reactions to a FORWARD NOW aid I grab hold of its mane before I use my legs or crop and make sure that my reins are sagging.
Many times in my riding life my saddleās cantle is the only thing that kept me on my horseās back. I am not proud, I will grab the horseās mane if I am in doubt about the strength of its forward at first, which protects the horseās mouth and its back. I have been grabbing the mane as needed for over 50 years.
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oh wow - I actually really like this idea too. Maybe I should put a strap on the saddle for this purpose. Like, Iām not a terrible rider, I just canāt crack the code for this one because I am asking him to do stuff he has never been asked to do - which is move forward in to contact. Heāll move forward for sure, on a loose and loopy rein, if heās allowed to canter (no trot, thankyouverymuch). And Iām not an educated enough rider to put it all together for him.
Itās super frustrating honestly, when you know youāre the problem but your 30 years of riding experience isnāt enough to solve it, lol.
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My 4 yr old mare is very sticky footed. Right now to get a decent canter, I have to get a lunge whip and have someone else ride her. Otherwise she just doesnāt feel like it.
On trail rides she tries to refuse going up front. I can understand that as I inadvertently taught her not to go up front until she was more comfortable with spooky things. She is pretty unreactive to the whip and it takes repeated taps to get forward and then she goes left or right and sideways rather than forward. Itās definitely a work in progress and she does get better with more ridingā¦
But she is really sticky about the canter. On the bright side her whoa is awesome and if you think whoa she stops. The canter is going to need a lot of work. Again sheās 4, so we have timeā¦ If I keep her that long. Sheās pretty decent on trails and I think it might be easier to sell her as a trail horse, as she resents the arena work so much.
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Is she good about cantering via voice on the ground? If not start there. The whip is an extension of your energy not a tool to tap tap tap without a reaction.
My previous horse would get super sticky when going through a growth spurt. Maybe sheās growing.
The best way is doing transitions, transitions, transitions. Walk, trot, walk, trot, walk trot.
Decide the number of strides for walk (like 10) to begin, then do 4 strides of trot, back down to walk again. Rinse, repeat. Repeat. Repeat.
The horse will acclimate so youāll have to adjust the timing of your aids as you go on. Itās mentally tiring for both horse and rider so I keep it to like 10 minutes.
As horse gets used to the exercise you can play with stride number, going on a circle instead of the rail, etc.
After the horse has walk trot walk trot down pat add in canter. Not too many strides before you trot again. Itās about the transitions. You can then transition walk to canter, walk, trot to canter, trot canter walk trot canter and so on.
Do not worry about the head or face at all.
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Sheās sticky on the ground but not as bad. I think some of it is her temperament. Sheās very chill and while I love that about her, she is on the lazy side, just in general. Plus she is a mare and she has an opinion about doing things she doesnāt want to do. 
If you lunge her, you really have to drive her because if you let up, she is ready to stop. Thatās her approach to life. Iām hoping if we find something she finds more interesting, she will put in a little more effort.
I have retrained some horses who just did not understand contact AT ALL even after being ridden for over 20 years.
I āseduceā the horse into contact. I have either very light contact (measured in grams, not ounces), use my legs, and if the horseās mouth moves forward I follow its head with the same very light contact, and I move my hands just a little bit more forward than my contact (usually by opening my fingers a little bit), apply my leg aids, and if and when the horse responds I go back to a sagging rein.
It often takes me a few weeks (at one 30 minute ride a week), but after those few weeks the horse has decided that just maybe my hands are safe and wonāt punish them for reaching forward into contact. as an immediate reward.
If the horse does not respond at first I make sure that there is a straight line between my elbow and the corner of the horseās mouth IN ALL DIRECTIONS, both when someone is looking at me from the side AND when I look down on my hands and reins. This drove my riding instructor crazy at first, but after the horses consistently relaxing their neck, poll, lower jaw, tongue and lips my riding instructor admitted that she liked the results.
At first I ride the horse in contact for a very brief time (like a minute or so) during each ride, and as the horse starts relaxing it allows me to keep contact with relaxed and supple fingers, wrists, elbows and shoulders until, gradually, I can ride the entire lesson in contact.
Most riders who hold their hands the āapprovedā distance apart hold their horses back literally. The horse does not feel like it has the freedom to move into contact, if the horse dares risk establishing contact the riderās hands feel ādeadā and the horse never relaxes into contact.
It may take a while until the horse decides that its ānightmaresā about contact are over.
From what I have observed from over 50 years of riding is that the horses I ride (both the horses I retrained or trained from the beginning) and the lesson horses I ride just do not feel that comfortable with the āapprovedā method of the rider using their hands or keeping contact. The horses will suck back, never relax their tongues, poll or jaws, and the horses keep on refusing to take and keep good relaxed contact and that affects everything the horse does with its movement while being ridden.
My riding teachers LIKE seeing their lesson horses calmly reach out for contact, calmly keep contact, and calmly obey my rein aids after seeing these horses under other riders invert and/or get super frazzled and hardening their jaws until their jaws feel like a bar of iron. I have gotten comments, positive comments, of āIāve never seen that horse move like that beforeā as the horse relaxes under me, reaches confidently for contact, and moves with alertness and suppleness under me.
Even though I am crippled with MS and have problems with my hands, balance, proprioception and coordination.
My fingers can feel the horseās tongue communicating with me while I ride. The horses and I have really nice conversations between my fingers and the horseās tongue, and these conversations are the highlight of my life right now.
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This is a rider problem, not a horse problem. You are accepting of her behavior and excusing it because you ālove that about herā¦ā
Yeahā¦and? So what? Who is the adult here? You, the human, set the rule, boundaries and expectations. You donāt seem to have any, or at least you donāt enforce consequences.
Nagā¦Nagā¦Nagā¦Nag. No wonder this horse doesnāt go. It has learned to tune out the rider. You ask ONCE. After that, there are consequences. I can tell you that after 3 times, this horse would GO!!! like a bat out of hell if the request for an upward transition is appropriately enforced.
Her (???) approach to life? Who is paying the bills here? You hope she will put in more effort? Why? There are obviously no consequences for giving you the horsey finger.
Sorry for the tough love hereā¦but you need to find someone to help you understand how to ask, reward and/or correct. This horse sounds like a smart opinionated mare that has got your number.
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The kindest thing you can do for your horse is always and consistently asking for energy to be moving in the correct direction. If you want to fix this problem, you must always demand it. That includes when handling and when riding.
For handling, be ready to walk with a purpose or your horse wonāt! Carry a dressage whip in your left hand, and flick it in the air behind you to indicate a need for more energy if your horse starts lagging in hand. For a behind the leg horse, they must always walk with head in front of your body, and you aligned somewhere between throat latch and shoulder. Your comfort level and horseās build and personality will define where that is, but if you are in front of your horse and theyāre trailing behind, they are literally behind your leg. This is also a very dangerous place for them to be, as in a spook they can land on you. If you are concerned about the shoulder getting too close, your right elbow can be lifted to keep them out of your space. Your horse should stay there with slack in the lead rope, and should respond to your positioning.
My mare had a tendency to be difficult to handle when amped at a show compared to home, because I was relaxed when leading her at home because she is so very, very good. Now, Iām diligent to ensure she is leading correctly, and in return she is always good to handle at shows even when wired. It was absolutely my fault for not defining parameters of where I wanted her when it was easy, so she didnāt have rules to follow when mentally overstimulated
The same kind of promptness is necessary at all times under saddle. Iāve had health problems this year which gave me major fatigue, and I probably averaged fewer than one ride a month the first 10 months of the year because of it. Lucky for me, my horse is super good, so I could ride without longeing or behavior issues. Obviously, though, our rides were mostly at a walk. I was adamant that from the first step away from the mounting block she step energetically and immediately, and that every response to my aids be prompt. Again, my horse is VERY good, but she isnāt very reactive or quick naturally - opposite of all my previous horses, even my childhood horses when I was showing stock type showing.
I was super picky about my leg position, as my most common flaw is getting grippy with my calves. If I grip, my mare starts to tune me out and get behind my legs. Most horses who are not naturally energetically forward will do the same. I also insisted bending and lateral movements off my legs get as immediate and enthusiastic a response as just asking her to move forward. At a walk, it tends to take little encouragement to get the forward even if it doesnāt last, so there were probably 4 touches with the whip all year when I wasnāt getting responses off my aids, and similar minimal spur use for lack of lateral response. Because I was so focused on being super minimal in aiding, when I started working my horse again, the trot and canter automatically already had the responsiveness I wanted. It should take a couple weeks of consistency if riding nearly daily, as opposed to the 10 months before I could function. My horse is super happy with the light aids and has adjusted herself to be more responsive. Itās absolutely delightful!
If your horse is more of a deadhead, it may take more encouragement. And it is even more crucial than even the first step away from the mounting block be on your aids and enthusiastic. Deadheads want whatever is easiest for them, and donāt want a fight. So if your horse learns an immediate and enthusiastic forward response gets a release of aids, it wonāt take long to always get that response. However, you also have to discipline yourself. Never grip. Maybe even actively hold your legs off when your horse is going. Tightening or blocking with the seat will always encourage behind your leg with a lazy horse, so you need to never do that again if you want to fix the problem. You will quickly learn that staying soft and allowing movement with your seat also makes you far more secure in the saddle, and safer in case of any kind of behavior because youāll be moving with your horse, not against it.
Also, transitions as long as they are prompt will also help, as others noted. I wonāt repeat all the previous advice, as I donāt think I disagree with any given, so listen to the other posters for ideas!
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