Hi,
I am currently training my 5 year old gelding. I have had him almost a year now and he is still scared of me when we train. I have done mostly ground work, gettingon and off, and taken a few steps with me in the saddle. I haven’t been agressive towards him or anything like that. The previous owner I believe may have been afraid of him because he does have a lot of energy and is quite tall compared to her (he is 15.3 hands) so he spent 3 years not doing much in a field before I got him. Anyway, when ever I go to round pen him or something he becomes very fearful, he shakes and gets his head head up high. I am not sure what to do, and it’s only when training. Leading, brushing, feeding, etc. he is fine. I welcome any advice anyone has.
”‹”‹”‹”‹Thank you in advance.
Is he really fearful? Or is he playing, challenging, dominant? What are you doing to get this reaction? Are you carrying a whip or a flag?
Why do you need to round pen him? What is he like on a longe line? Can you train him to longe using the long lead rope and transition to a linge ibe slowly?
Honestly I have never done liberty work with a horse that doesn’t already longe well. I don’t really see the point.
Finally, is he an Arabian?
My first thought, too – not fear, but expressing dominance at being RP’d.
Thanks for the reply. As far as I know he is not an Arabian, he said shows no physical characteristics of an Arabian. He is a Palamino but I am not sure of his decent.
When I round pen I have a lead rope or a lounge whip. When he does this I just keep sending him around. When he first did this I thounth he might just be trying to be dominant but as I said it has been almost a year and I work with him at the very least once a week.
When I try to lounge him on a line he doesn’t get it, I have tried many times I can’t get him to stay out he just comes back in to me. I have gotten him to do it once with the help of a friend, one of us holding the line the other chasing with a lead rope.
Ok. I know some people that decide to round pen because they either can’t longe effectively or they don’t know how to teach a horse to longe.
Always a mistake because if you dont have the skills to longe or train a horse to longe then you definitely don’t have the skills for liberty work.
My advice. Stop chasing this horse completely. I think you are just frying his brain.
Work on a ten foot lead rope with no.whip. At a walk. First teach him to.move his haunches away from the pressure of your finger (turn on forehand or leg yield). Then slowly over the course of several days, teach him to walk around you on a longer and longer lead rope, moving his haunches out slightly. Eventually you should be able to walk him around a fairly big circle with you walking a smaller circle. Then you can transition to a longe line.
Better yet, get a trainer on board or go to a good horsemanship clinic.
The way you report trying to teach him to longe suggests you are very new to all this.
A longe whip is a valuable tool used to.communicate but at the moment you need to put it away until you have more ways to talk to the horse than trying to chase him.
Right now you are training him to get freaked and razzed up in the round pen. So stop going there and hang up your whip for at least a month.
Oh, and work with him every day for a month. Or at least 4 days a week. Tossing him in the roundpen once a week and razzing him up is ineffective and borderline cruel.
I am a long time follower of Clinton Anderson… Using his method, I have gotten great success with horses just like you described. But I see some issues…
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Consistency is key. Work that horse 5-6 days a week, even if it’s just 15 minutes at a time. You will get better results, and in less days than you would working 1-2 hours once a week. I usually see big progression with a new skill within 3 days of first introducing it if worked on every day!
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Pressure release. When you work with him, and he does something well, do you reward/release pressure and move on? Sounds like you’ve been doing the same thing for a year with him. When he does something correctly, immediately turn and walk away if you’re round penning. Big time pressure release is a great way to tell them they did something right. But there is a time and place for it. If you ask him to move forward, and he does, back off and don’t nag him. Just calmly stay behind the drive line and leave him alone. If he were to go changing directions, cut him off and send him back in the direction you asked for. Once he is there, leave him alone. Don’t be a nagging mother!!
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Desensitize. Expose him to whips, ropes and your other tools. He should be respectful of your tools. Not afraid of them. Throw that rope over his back, if he runs away, follow him and keep throwing it over his back until he stops. The key here is to throw it OVER his back, not at him. If you release the pressure when he runs away, he will learn that if he acts scared and runs away, that will get you to stop. It should be your goal to show him that the rope isn’t anything special, and that the way to get it to go away is to stop, and wait calmly. Once he stands calmly, rub him with your hands and the rope.
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Learn the signs of relaxation: licking/chewing, cocking a leg, sighing, big slow blinking, yawning and lowering the head. Use these to your advantage. If you’re throwing the rope over his back, he runs away, then finally stops, and then licks his lips… If you’re still thinking about throwing that rope over his back after that, you’re not effective with pressure release and you’re not reading your horse. Any time they exhibit a sign listed above, you should stop and reward, and then go right back to what you were doing. Reward for the slightest try in the beginning. Once your horse can figure out what you would like to see, then you can start asking for more without a reward.
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Round penning is a very effective tool/exercise. It is never “a mistake” to round pen your horse, that is if you’re doing it effectively and properly. I round pen all my young horses, but there is a fine line and it’s important to know when you’ve crossed it.
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Show your horse that you can be an effective, fair and knowledgeable leader. By applying/releasing pressure in a timely manner, starting with soft cues and working towards more intense cues if you are not getting results. More intense does not equal pain!
I agree roundpenning can be a good tool, but IME people who do roundpenning because they lack the skills to longe, also lack the skills to round pen successfully and end up in situations like the OP describes.
I thought that learning how to teach the horse to longe would help OP develop a bit of feel and timing, which sounds like its lacking here.
I have always found groundwork easy, though it didn’t exist as aa special thing when I was a kid. I do liberty and trick and obstacle and agility work. I can have a positive influence on green horses.
But I have also seen a lot of newbies with no sense of feel or timing, and without that it’s hopeless.
It’s your body language. How do you get him to the round pen; do you lead him there? Why not do some desensitizing and focus exercises instead of chasing him around? If your horse is showing fear, or more energy, then you need to do the opposite and get him to relax and focus, not chase him around and increase his energy.
Many people, as indicated in the multiple posts above, don’t know how to use a round pen and think it exists simply to chase a horse around in.
The key to round penning is being able to identify your horse’s body language – licking and chewing, turning an ear to you, stopping and turning towards you, and much more. These signs indicate the horses would like to stop working and join up with you = the first step + the whole point of round penning. You then immediately have to deescalate your body language which allows horse to attempt a join up which IF succesful indicates you can go on to step two – saddling or whatever it is horse has a problem with. < very brief description.
If you round pen incorrectly (can’t read signs and don’t respond to signs) the horse will have no idea what you’re doing = being afraid of you and/or a blown mind – horse can’t do anything right because you’re not doing anything right.
Round penning is based on the horse’s natural dynamics within a herd – subordinance to another horse (you being the other alpha horse) that teaches him ‘how’ to be accepted back into the herd. < again brief description.
I would learn about the round penning method by watching videos done by experts (Monty Roberts, etc.) before attempting it again. Palm Beach is right in that you don’t just chase a horse around in round pen hoping for some result.
Working “ at least once a week” isn’t going to teach him anything. First you need to pick a program to follow then you need to devote at least 4 days a week to it.
Many horses put into a round pen with a person holding a whip who provide no direction other then chasing them around once a week will get scared. They don’t know what to do, nobody teaches them, just scares them into forward either waving the whip, snapping a line or rope or yeee hawing at them after sitting around most of the week. It’s not a surprise here at all. neither is learning to scare the human by “ puffing up” . May have a little of both going on here.
Do you have some help with the horse?
My horses do both. They lunge and round pen. I usually start in the round pen, especially with rank/green/young horses as it can be a bit safer (for someone with experience).
I have the skills to do both, and I teach them both, but I probably round pen more than lunge. It may not be all that accurate to say those who round pen don’t have the skills to lunge. I have a preference between skill sets. I also don’t round pen for more than 15 minutes at a time. Once they are using the thinking side of their brain, I move on, and do other exercises on a line, and over obstacles. I think those you are referring to, never take that next step. 
No they don’t even know there is a next step don’t have any help.
Oh absolutely. I just meant newbies who round pen because they are incapable of sorting out their hands and feet to longe, or even worse because they can’t safely or effectively work the horse in hand. They won’t round pen effectively either.
I’ve watched it.
You can’t send a child to kindergarten once a week and leave him to his own devices the rest of the time and expect him to retain anything he was taught.
My 2 year olds get worked 4 to 5 days a week 20 to 30 minutes per day. It’s as much of a building physical stamina as it is building the mental capacity for then to engage and pay attention on a job when they’re not used to.
I start every horse on a medium length rope inside the round pen. Basically a long enough rope for the horse to work at the edge of the round pen without having 20 feet of excess rope to get tangled. I teach woah first thing. First walking then trotting and loping. Woah, count to 3 and then a smooth pull until he stops and faces. Same thing with go. Kiss and the horse has to think move. If not I will move towards them with my body and kiss again, if they say no again, I will use my access lunge line to slap my leg.
I don’t introduce a whip until the horse is relaxed and listening to ME. I don’t want them distracted and fearing the whip.
A horse without much formal training will not want to give to pressure physically or mentally. You’ve got to get in their world and get in the pecking order.
OP, I think it is time you find a trainer to work with. I agree with most of what has already been said on this forum. If both you and your friend don’t even know how to get him to lunge on the line, then quite honestly you don’t know how to train. I don’t say that to be mean, rude, or to make you feel badly, but “you don’t know what you don’t know”. From the sounds of it, your horse is extremely frustrated with you. He doesn’t know what you want because you don’t know how to train.
Is there a trainer you can contact?
One who is experienced with ground work and teaching colts to ride for the first time?
We can give you all sorts of advice and feedback on the internet, but it will not replace the experienced eyes of a trainer watching you and watching your horse, and helping you with instant feedback. That is the best route to set yourself up for success.
Yup, OP needs to find herself someone who can help her and this horse in real time.
OP, what you’ve posted so far tells us that you aren’t aware of or educated enough in your own body language to know what you’re saying to this horse or what he’s saying to you. No one can teach that in a chat forum - you need a live, experienced person you trust to help guide you.
And please, for your sake and this gelding’s, get some live help soon. Starting young horses is no picnic and it’s serious business: you are setting that horse up for the rest of his working life. It’s a lot harder to fix mistakes made early on when you get farther down the road.
Best advice ever.
If you’ve had this guy for a year and that’s as far as you have been able to get, I highly highly recommend getting a trainer. There is absolutely no shame in needing someone to help you that knows what they are doing. By trying to do it yourself without really knowing how to start a young horse, you are just going to frustrate yourself and your horse and that just isn’t fair to either of you! You sound very young, I know a lot of kids that I used to give lessons to that feel like they are ready to start a baby after riding for a while but it is a completely different ballgame that requires a set of skills you can only really learn from someone that is experienced doing it.
You can watch videos and get into all the natural horsemanship stuff all you want, and you MIGHT be able to get a bit done with it, but they can’t teach you the feel and the tiny little signs a horse gives you that it does or doesn’t understand what you are asking. Please, please, for both your sakes, get a trainer experienced with starting horses to help you. If you are just absolutely determined to do it yourself, find a trainer that will let you watch them start babies and will teach you how to do it.
