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Fears about starting chasteberry since pergolide nearly killed my horse

Horse Care
#1

Some of you might have read my thread(s) about Benjamin, my 22-year-old TB gelding who nearly died last month from kidney failure. I had started him on a very, very low dose of pergolide (1/2 mg) and, being the drama queen that he is, he stopped eating five days after I started the pergolide (which can cause horses to go off their feed; Benjamin simply took it one step further.) Five days later he was rushed to the hospital and put on IV’s for nearly a week to flush out his kidneys and replenish the liquids in him. Apparently, the pergolide caused him to simply stop eating. Entirely (apart from some grass when hand grazing).

Fast forward to now. He’s home, eating again, doing great. All vets agree to not give him pergolide EVER AGAIN. His cortisol numbers weren’t that high in the first place but his hairy coat (and getting clipped every four weeks) was a pain, hence the decision to try pergolide.

Has anyone ever heard of chasteberries causing a horse to stop eating? I can’t take the risk of causing another kidney malfunction if he stops eating again. But it would be SO nice to be able to try something.

Thanks!

#2

I have my 34 yr old on this. http://www.whitehavenfarm.com/proddetail.php?prod=EV-EVITX I really thought he wasn’t going to make it through the winter, he was soo unsteady and lethargic. He has mild Cushings. Three days of being on the Evitex, he was spritely and leading the way out to the field in the morning. The taste might take a little getting used to, but if you can mask it with chopped carrots or peppermints, I’m sure it would help. Good luck.

#3

I am sorry your horse had that problem, but FWIW, the Pergolide itself did not ‘nearly kill him’. You said ‘Apparently, the pergolide caused him to simply stop eating.’ For any horse that goes off feed with this drug, or others, the solution often is to give them APF. See the website www.auburnlabs.com and for more info on his underlying condition for which you used Pergolide and want to try the CTB, see www.ecirhorse.com for the facts.

Frankly, I am surprised you did not take action on his issues faster. On the ‘he stopped eating five days after I started the pergolide (which can cause horses to go off their feed; Benjamin simply took it one step further.) Five days later he was rushed to the hospital and put on IV’s for nearly a week to flush out his kidneys and replenish the liquids in him.’ - if I read that right, that means you waited almost a week to get Veterinary help !?!? WTH? Most horses that stop eating and/or get that ‘pergolide veil’ get it much faster than 5 days after starting it, so I highly doubt that the Pergolide was the cause.

3 Likes
#4

Pergolide is nasty stuff for some horses. It nearly killed my mare also. She quit eating and drinking completely. I went down to 1/2 mg. also and it made no difference. After 2 weeks on the drug, she layed down out behind the barn and could not/would not get up. After 2 emergency vet calls, and discontinuing pergolide, she finally got up and slowly went back to normal. She’s on chaste tree berry powder from rose mountain herbs and does great. Will never do pergolide again.

Don’t let people fool you when they say “oh it could never have been the pergolide.” Bull. Since this happened to my horse, I’ve talked to at least 5 people who have all said their horses quit eating and drinking completely and got weak, disoriented, depressed and sick.

It works for some horses but the danger is there’s no way to know unless you try. I also read the information about the “pergolide veil” on the cushings group. The people there said the horse’s appetite might decrease for a couple of days. Well, that was not my experience at all. From the first day on the drug, the horse started eating less and less. After 2 weeks, I couldn’t even tempt her with the stickiest, sweetest sweet feed. (Not that she should have been eating it but the point was she had NO appetite for anything.) Her water intake decreased every day as well to the point she didn’t eat or drink at all. I was syringing water in her mouth, and she would swallow it, which was good at least. I had called my vet to come out and euthanize her because her eyes were dead and she had completely given up. He suggested just stopping the pergolide and continuing the syringing for a couple more days to see if she gets up. We had another vet visit in there, but she did get up and slowly began picking at feed and hay. After a few days with no pergolide, she returned back to her normal self.

#5

My2Cents - my vet has suggested the same product for my 26 y.o. who has shown signs of IR/Cushings for several years. Is that the only place that carries it?

TIA

#6

Good Luck with your new meds

Sorry no idea about the berries but sending:D Jingles for Benjamin and his owner ~ please know you did a great job SAVING HIS LIFE ! Again you two are lucky to have one another.:cool: AO ~ Always Optimistic !

#7

Nope. Also from Emerald Valley Equine (same price tho): http://www.emeraldvalleyequine.com/evitex.cfm

I have my 18 y/o Percheron on it and she’s doing great. :smiley:

#8

Chastetree berry is very different from Pergolide

[QUOTE=ljc;4732732]
Some of you might have read my thread(s) about Benjamin, my 22-year-old TB gelding who nearly died last month from kidney failure. I had started him on a very, very low dose of pergolide (1/2 mg) and, being the drama queen that he is, he stopped eating five days after I started the pergolide (which can cause horses to go off their feed; Benjamin simply took it one step further.) Five days later he was rushed to the hospital and put on IV’s for nearly a week to flush out his kidneys and replenish the liquids in him. Apparently, the pergolide caused him to simply stop eating. Entirely (apart from some grass when hand grazing).

Fast forward to now. He’s home, eating again, doing great. All vets agree to not give him pergolide EVER AGAIN. His cortisol numbers weren’t that high in the first place but his hairy coat (and getting clipped every four weeks) was a pain, hence the decision to try pergolide.

Has anyone ever heard of chasteberries causing a horse to stop eating? I can’t take the risk of causing another kidney malfunction if he stops eating again. But it would be SO nice to be able to try something.

Thanks![/QUOTE]

There is no reason he should not be tried on Chastetree berry even if he reacted to Pergolide.

Start with very small amounts and work up slowly.
MW

#9

While I appreciate your two cents here based on my description of what happened, please do not even suggest I wasn’t on top this from day one. I started the pergolide on a Saturday. He stopped eating on Wednesday. I called the vet immediately, who said horses can have what you call the pergolide veil go into effect a few days after starting it. He recommened waiting a couple of days to see if his appetite returned. He was drinking, pooping and I was handgrazing him three times a day during this time. Vet came out on Monday to draw blood (at which time he gave him a shot of Vitamin B-12); got results on Tuesday and he went to the hospital on Wednesday.

With all due respect, every vet who treated Benjamin during this episode agreed - pergolide was the cause. And if you were to do the same online research I did, you would find hundreds of similar cases.

But this thread isn’t about his kidney failure so I’m not going to be drawn into a debate about what happened. Anyone who has ever read one of my threads knows I am the LAST person to delay getting care for my horses. Every person who read my threads about Benjamin’s kidney failure would agree you are way off base in suggesting otherwise.

How funny you should mention APF. If you should happen to have an APF brochure, please look at the front of it. See the beautiful bay hunter jumping toward the camera? That’s Benjamin. He was one of the first horses to go on APF back when Dr. Van Noy began selling it. I’m the last person you need to suggest APF to. But thanks anyway.

#10

[QUOTE=ChocoMare;4733370]
Nope. Also from Emerald Valley Equine (same price tho): http://www.emeraldvalleyequine.com/evitex.cfm

I have my 18 y/o Percheron on it and she’s doing great. :D[/QUOTE]

What she said :wink:

#11

Thanks for that additional info, ljc, and if I ever read the ‘other thread about kidneys’ you mentioned I am sorry I do not remember it. That is cool that you already are familiar with APF, were you using it for Benjamin at the time this all happened? This has been educational for me, and surely for others as I had no idea that a horse could have such severe problems with Pergolide.

Edited to add, I found the other thread, that I did see once then forgot about, sorry. On page 3 message 45, there is the comment ‘Once again, I cannot thank all of you enough. This board probably saved Benjamin’s life. I wouldn’t have done the bloodwork if it hadn’t been suggested here. I wouldn’t have rushed him to the hospital if you all hadn’t encouraged it.’
That is very interesting, and contradicts what is said in message 9, ‘please do not even suggest I wasn’t on top this from day one’. Oh well, all of us learn as we go, no matter how much we already know. There is too much to know about what can happen to these fragile creatures, no doubt about it. I am glad he pulled through, and hope he will be fine for a long time to come!

#12

Jeanie - You’re right - I do sound like a flake, don’t I?:slight_smile: What was so great about this board was that COTH’ers helped me figure out what was happening. When Benjamin first stopped eating and the vet (who I did call on day 1) was saying the loss of appetite was common with Pergolide, it was people on this board who encouraged me to look further and to get the bloodwork done because there might be “something else” going on. When the bloodwork results came in and my vet was saying x,y,z it was people on this board who said, No, there’s something really serious happening here and taking him to the hospital would be a good idea.

I had (and alway have) the best of intentions. But the people on this board helped me see beyond the immediate stuff – which my vet was concentrating on – to see what else might be happening.

APF is a fabulous supplement and no, Benjamin wasn’t on it! When I retired him from showing I began cutting back on some of the “extras” and APF was one of them. Your post makes me reconsider that! I used to take APF too - was one of the first “human” trials, in fact! I remember it tasted horrible and the only way I could drink it was with cranberry juice. I think there’s a human version of it now (that hopefully tastes better).

#13

I think on your other thread I mentioned that I had to ake a horse off pergolide for the same reason as you did although not nearly as critical as your situation, she was put on chasteberry and didn’t have the same effect on her food/fluid intake. She was on chasteberry for about 3 years with no ill effect that I could tell, although at the end of her life she did have failure to thrive issues, I think as a progression on the disease process, she lived quite a long time with cushings and never foundered, she was managed for 12 years on different meds and supplements.

#14

I just have to add my friend’s horse was on pergolide and the change in his condition was dramatic to the point where we both thought my god he’s going to die, it took quite a while for her vet to suggest taking him off pergolide, this was about 10 years ago so not as much information was available at that time, just a vague idea that horses could go off their feed for a few days.
BTW, i currently have a cushings horse who is doing very well on pergolide so it can be very effective for most horse, i am not anti pergolide

#15

No ljc, you’re not a flake, just like all/most of us, it hard sometimes to think of all that should or could be done, when in the middle of the stress of a very sick horse. The main thing is, he pulled through, and you are right, the CoTH forum is the best way to get a whole bunch of different people brainstorming on something! The first time I ever heard of APF, by the way, was as a way of helping a horse cope with any stressor, including meds, that was why I wondered about that. Here’s hoping for steadily improving health for Benjamin! (Since he was a pictured critter for the company, they oughtta give you a free lifetime supply of APF, eh?)

#16

[QUOTE=yellow-horse;4735393]

BTW, i currently have a cushings horse who is doing very well on pergolide so it can be very effective for most horse, i am not anti pergolide[/QUOTE]

Add my mare to the list of horses that is doing well on pergolide. While she doesn’t suck down her lo-carb pellets, she always finishes her hay down to the very last morsel. And she gets a lot of hay. BTW, she wasn’t all that enthusiastic about the low-carb pellets even before starting pergolide, so that was nothing new.

It’s good to be educated though. If her appetite suddenly changes, I will know what to do.

#17

Bumping this thread for an update on Benjamin and the berries ~ Jingles.

#18

I’m being most cautious - only giving him 1/8 teaspoon (probably not even enough to actually “do” anything). I’m happy to say I’ve had to cut back on his food! He’s a total chow hound now, which is rather interesting because before the whole kidney thing, he was never particularly “into” food. I’d have the think the gastroguard made a difference.

Now, if I could only get him sound again. But that’s a whole different thread!

Thanks for asking.

#19

Hey, my horse was diagnosed with metabolic syndrome 2 years ago. I’ve been doing what the vet recommended but since he’s had the EMS he’s had the fatty lumps on his back and above his eyes. That tells me I’m not doing something right, he was otherwise good until earlier this week. I researched chasteberry and it seemed like it would help so I started him on it November 14, 2017. I thought he may have an abcess in his left front foot on the 24th so I started soaking and wrapping now he won’t put pressure on the opposite foot. I’m confused and worried about my horse. He’s 20yrs old and I’m afraid the chasteberry may have caused something. Can anyone tell me if they have had a bad experience with it or what I need to do? The vet is coming out today to look at him and check his teeth but I’m hoping you can help too.

#20

It’s best to start a new thread on COTH with your own title rather than resurrect a zombie thread from seven years ago.

That said you do realize metabolic horses can be prone to laminitis and founder, and when you get foot pain in a metabolic horse that’s the first thing to check. Have your vet examine.

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