Fecal Water Syndrome & Cushings

[allstar]

UPDATE: Finally found a product to fix this! I went to a company called Neachai. Theresa made Ned a custom blend of herbs in an oral powder form and also a liquid rectal blend (syringe once a day). Within 5 days all signs of fecal water syndrome was gone! I highly suggest reaching out to her if you’re in the same boat as I was!

Original post:

Looking for any ideas and advice for my large pony Ned. He is 26 and I’ve owned him for 20 years. He has cushings and is on Prascend for it. The medication seems to manage it well and as soon as he went on it his mood improved, he lost all of the fat deposits and has since been in fantastic condition. He is sound to ride and is still feisty as ever! His weight is also perfect and he is his happy normal self.

When the weather changes drastically he can have a bout of diarrhea for a day or two, he has always been this way however last winter he developed Free Fecal Water Syndrome. The vet put him on a course of sucralfate for hindgut ulcers (3 weeks 12 pills twice a day) as well as biosponge for a week. There was no change. He was then put on mostly hay cubes instead of hay indoors when he came in from turnout which helped a bit but he didn’t care to eat them. As soon as the grass came back he was 99% clear of the fecal water all summer long.

Fall came around and it started back up again even worse than last year. As soon as the grass was done and the round bale went out it happened again. It seems to be worse when the temperature goes up and down. As of now I have to wash his hind end daily and I am struggling to keep him dry. Despite my efforts with topicals he’s starting to get a bit of ouchy mud fever on his felt locks from being wet all the time. Right now I currently wash his hind end about 6 days a week. Most of the time I can’t even get him dry enough to put topicals on before he has the squirts all down his legs again. He was clipped in the fall and i try to keep his legs clipped short, but it’s almost impossible when he is never dry. I have been slathering Vaseline all over him in an effort to make a barrier from the wetness which seems to make it run off a bit. I know that unfortunately they can have delayed recovery from any conditions with cushings.

Here is what supplements I have tried:

Psyllium husk - 1/2 cup per day (vet suggested this)
Mad Barn Visceral
Mad Barn Optimum Digestive Health
Added Beat Pulp to his diet

Current Feed:
AM: - 1 scoop beat pulp & 1 scoop roughage
PM: - 1 scoop beat pulp & 1 scoop purina senior
Our barn adds salt to their meals once daily. They rotate different types.
Round bale outside and hay indoors at night.

I have spoken to 3 vets about this and they all say take him off hay completely and do cubes. I live in Toronto so I can’t have soaked hay cubes outside during the winter. Changing hay isn’t an option either, he would have to go on solo turnout which we don’t have access to in the winter. He loves his friends who have been with him for years so I don’t want to take that joy from him either. However he stands at the round bale eating all day.

Has anyone done a fecal transplant? Did it work and what was the approx cost?

Any advice and suggestions would be so very appreciated- supplements, feeds, also any ideas on how to keep him clean and dry! I’m so frustrated with the lack of a solution for him, I have spent a fortune on vet bills only to be told there is no answer. Thankfully he is in good spirits and it doesn’t seem to bother him other than the mud fever.

[beowulf]

I went through something very similar with my Cushings horse, but my vet didn’t diagnose it as Fecal Water Syndrome because in his case the manure wasn’t normal either. We ended up discovering it was colitis, or really, his colon had become so irritated and inflamed by improperly masticated hay that it just wasn’t doing its job as well anymore. His hay was not being masticated properly because he had somehow lost almost all of his molars. That was a headscratcher for all of us, as he does not have EOTRH and previously, had always been unremarkable at his 6 month dental checkups.

Yes, we did do a fecal transplant and it made a huge difference, but my vet cautioned me that the transplant has to come with management changes to work (which we did). It was very cheap as far as medical services go, I don’t even remember the cost that’s how nominal it was. I think the vet visit fee was the majority of the bill. We also tried him on Metronidazole before the transplant and it did improve things temporarily but not consistently. Like your guy, he’s worse when there’s no grass to eat or not much. So it is only a hardship for a few months out of the year, as I also live in a northern climate (NE).

I agree with your vets to take him off of hay and do cubes. You absolutely can soak them in Toronto, I live in a similar climate and have been giving my horse soaked timothy pellets outside for the last six years. You can do this without removing him from the herd completely. What I do is I feed my guy his timothy pellets soaked in a run in stall with his grain. He’ll stay in there for however long he needs to eat, then he goes back out. Since he eats so much soaked forage, I don’t think he actually has the appetitte to eat much hay during the day. I do see him occasionally munching on the roundbale with his buddies, but his intake must be incremental because the “splats” have not come back. My vet suggested a muzzle initially to slow any intake down, but we realized it was unnecessary as he’s really not ingesting much hay anymore.

BTW, those Tidy Cat litter jugs are the perfect size to fill up with hot water. I bring the hot water to the barn in them, soak his pellets/feed first, put him in stall, dump his feed, then feed everyone else.

Unfortunately, it is somewhat of a PITA to manage a toothless senior horse in a toothsome herd. In the summer, he’s turned out alone in the grass field at night so he gets almost all of his forage needs from daily grazing. Then in the AM, he’s fed his Triple Crown Complete Sr, 4qts of soaked Timothy pellets, and put back with the herd until PM grain (which is the same thing).

In the winter it’s a little more tricky, as there’s no grass. His timothy pellets and Triple Crown Senior is increased, and he’s kept full time in the herd until the grass comes back in.

I don’t know what one scoop translates to with your farm but my guy is on the following, measured dry:
3 qts Triple Crown Senior 2x a day
2 qts hay stretcher 3x a day
5 qts Timothy cubes 2x a day

Make sure you vet your senior brands. Not all of them are complete feeds. The one I feed can be fed in lieu of roughage, but I don’t do it. Since it sounds like your guy comes in at night, maybe that is when the barn can sub out hay for timothy pellets.

One other thing I learned about cleaning the squirts… Showsheen works really well. I didn’t hose him off that often because it was miserably cold here when he had his first outbreak. What I did was slick off the wet manure, curry off the crusties, hot towel until clean, and then apply showsheen liberally up/down his legs and also in his tail. That really helped make clean-up easy.

[OzarksRider]

@allstar

I have been slathering Vaseline all over him in an effort to make a barrier from the wetness which seems to make it run off a bit.

Try Desitin diaper cream instead. I think it might stick better/last longer than Vaseline.

[erinmeri]

@OzarksRider

Try Desitin diaper cream instead. I think it might stick better/last longer than Vaseline.

I second Desitin. When my mare had bouts of diarrhea and then FFWS, Desitin cleared up irritation practically overnight and kept her nether regions free from redness, scabs and irritation.

[allstar]

I’m glad you got your horse managed! Thank you for your reply!!

He has all his teeth knock on wood. There is no issue for him chewing. Unfortunately he is not interested in eating hay cubes, especially if they get even a little bit cold. Last year he ended up losing weight which is unlike him from not eating the cubes so I had to take him off of them. I was thinking of trying Timothy pellets as an add on to his grain and beet pulp. My farm doesn’t have anywhere he can come in and eat during the day like yours. I can make it up almost everyday but the timing varies depending on my work schedule, so I can’t commit to going and feeding him lunch everyday.

[walkinthewalk]

This FCWS seems to be an issue with many Senior horses. I have taken five over 25 horses to their end times and never dealt with it. BUT my now 28+ yr old has been dealing with it for three or so years and it is seasonal.

He has environmental allergies plus grain & soy intolerance. He’s an easy keeper so that means his diet is enough timothy pellets to mix his supplements with; one being a condensed vit/mineral supplement.

I have yet to find something that consistently works. Right now he is fine because everything in the pasture is brown, including the weeds he likes to eat.

I read somewhere else about a horse whose FCWS was “cured” by feeding him one measure cup of coconut oil daily, which one cup is something I would work up to gradually.

Coconut oil is supposed to be good for horses. I haven’t tried it but it’s a thought, if my horse has another flare-up.

https://madbarn.com/coconut-oil-for-horses/

[LadyB]

I highly suggest trying Psyllium Husk. My guy was showing FWS signs, my vet recommended looking into FWS. Psyllium Husk is suggested many times. The horse version is super expensive, you can buy it from health food stores or here in Canada I bought it from Bulk Barn. Started with 25g a day… ended up doing 75g a day and it resolved the issues.

Take the horse off any and all pre/probiotics. This was causing the fecal to be like water. Disgusting. Psyllium Husk was the game changer for my guy at least. Worth trying.

[allstar]

I have tried this with no results unfortunately!

[FjordBCRF]

@allstar

UPDATE: Finally found a product to fix this! I went to a company called Neachai. Theresa made Ned a custom blend of herbs in an oral powder form and also a liquid rectal blend (syringe once a day). Within 5 days all signs of fecal water syndrome was gone! I highly suggest reaching out to her if you’re in the same boat as I was!

Thats great! Can you tell us more like what was in the herb mix and if it is something meant to be done forever or for a shorter length of time and see?

[allstar]

I’ve done one month so far and will do another month. Then once the grass comes back here he won’t need it. Here’s a photo of the bag. She pre portioned it all out in little bags for me which was amazing as well. I have no clue what half the ingredients are, but it works! Check out her website!

[FjordBCRF]

Thanks!! Very interesting. I looked at the site and the digestive blend and the L-Glutamine rang a bell which is also in your mix. Platinum Performance uses that too in their GI blend and their Platinum Balance, they also just sell it on its own. I looked at the Mad Barn supplements you mentioned in your OP and they don’t contain L-Glutamine either (from what I could tell). Mad Barn does provide a list of different supplements that contain L-Glutamine https://madbarn.com/ingredient/l-glutamine/

My Fjord has had FFWS since I got him as a 3 year old (there is another thread on the topic I started somewhere). For him, its heat induced. We are completely dry once the temps cool down going into winter. I tried both the Platinum GI and the Balance last summer which kiiiiiiinda helped, but not completely. Psyllium husk and chia didnt do anything significant either. I may think about adding back L-Glutamine on its own shortly before the weather warms up again to see if that does anything. Personally, I am a little hesitant off the bat with herbals without really digging into any research around them, but there is a lot of info out there on L-glutamine and digestive support specifically.

This is where we landed last summer that seemed to minimize it quite a bit with flare ups on really hot/humid days.

This is what he gets 2X day - the VBPro and Tractguard both offering the digestive support:
Shredded Beet Pulp Standlee = 2 cups
Vermont Blend Pro (Custom Equine Nutrition) 1 oz = 2 TBSP
Omega E (Custom Equine Nutrition) = ½ C
TractGuard = 1 scoop
Apple a Day Electrolytes
-Winter/Spring feeding rate = 1 tsp = ½ ounce
-Summer/Fall feeding rate = 3 tsp = 1 ½ ounces

[BayBondGirl]

I went through FFWS with my 2 year old Clydesdale cross this past year; it started lightly in summer 2022 when coarse local grass hay was partially brought into her diet, and it progressively got worse until it magically resolved in the first week of Jan 2023.

I tried Metronidazole which solved it for a week and then it came back. I unsuccessfully tried probiotics and different hay types - softer local, alfalfa/orchard, straight orchard. All of the hay I tried was quite soft, since that kept coming up in the FB group as being a solution.

The solution came when we moved to a new barn on Jan 1: it was some combination of a slow feed hay net 24/7, soft local grass hay and a much larger full time paddock. The change was overnight. I’m fairly convinced that the hay net has a big part to play, as it forces her to take smaller bites and chew thoroughly. She likes to gobble otherwise.

My absolute condolences to everyone who deals with this -y syndrome! My filly has the most beautiful flaxen tail (on an otherwise entirely bay body) and I had to chop about 9 inches off it this winter because it was revolting to manage. She got scald on her hocks and I rarely picked her hind feet unless it was warm enough to wash them off.

Apparently Shiney Hiney is a wonderful spray-on product for getting rid of the poop off of the hind legs and bum cheeks!

[greywithchrome]

Theresa at Neachai is amazing, not cheap but great stuff

[allstar]

I spent so much money on vet bills and trying supplements at this point $150 a month is fine! I’m just so glad something worked! She has been lovely to work with and really seems to care about him, she answers all my questions and is always willing to chat!