Federal Fraud Case

YES! there is still justice. Kudos to the government and the Judge. Now can we get the USEF to honor those orders?

I’m very curious eef how do you know the trurh about these men? You are defending them on the basis of what information? I always like to know both sides of a story.

Originally posted by northplaza:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by QueenMother:
Was the FBI in prison or the horse in prison or the victim in prison or the defendants in prison?

With your board name it isn’t hard to understand why you think the grammar is the most pressing issue in this post.

It sure is nice to be able to get to what is essential in a question, isn’t it?

You must be a real treasure to your friends. I hope when you are missing a horse you come across greater sympathy than that of which you are capable of expressing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

oh good lord, can’t you all just act like grown-ups? is that really too much to ask?

Originally posted by LaBonnieBon:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by t8ksilk:
To Kfildes:

Unless you are going to spend valuable time following Keg and Josh around, warning others about them, risking your own reputations, then you have to let it go.

They’ve got their just desserts, people know about it, kudos to those of you who have hung in there making public the wrongful things they’ve done. Leave them to the lives of their own creation.

Now, if you’re going to do something, concentrate your efforts on getting organizations to stop dealing with the likes of them and making it harder for them to survive in this environment.

I, for one, would not have known about this whole Josh/Keg thing had it not been on this board. I think what these people are doing is definitely helping get the word out and feel they should continue to update us on things. If someone is sick of hearing about it, they don’t have to read the post, right?

I think this post has had a lot of positive things happen for the victims. The warnings on this thread have brought out new victims.

As far as keeping up with where they are
 this will also be helpful for the Feds during the probation time. After reading the documents RNB sent me I don’t believe that Josh/Keg will keep the Feds up to date on any of their shady actions
 others will have to make them accountable. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I never said it wasn’t helpful. There are two issues here: for those who don’t know about this type of person, there should be caution when dealing with trainers or anyone who holds themselves out to be “experts”. For those who do know about it, it only does so good to keep discussing it. If you don’t intend to seek the root of the problem and attempt to help others out by urging equine organizations to devise regulations that prevent people like that from flourishing, the words are just that, words: and they only serve to make conversations interesting. Are you LaBonnieBon, going to contact Judge Williams, or your local U.S. Attorney’s office, or your local horse shows association, when you hear about these people operating in Nokesville? If not, then to what end does your information and your conversation serve? Doing something more helps people like those you have heard about on this board who have been or are going to be victimized. Doing nothing more does just that.

OK. I just strted really thinking about all this. Was there not a thread not to long ago about the USEF and a trainer getting in trouble for a message on an Answering Machine??? Now why in the hell would they go after a member for a phone call but not go after people who have stolen, numerous horses/ponies and hurt so many people. I just do not get it.

I am sorry eef. But it is not a persons opinion. Nothing has been said that is false and no accusations have been made. Funny there was enough TRUTH to make a Federal Court find them guilty??? I know ALL about this case. I hope they do rebuild their lives. In fact I just this week E-Mailed Kimberly Anderson the FBI Agent in charge and shared my opionion as a Trainer, Farm Owner and Agent. I hope they rebuild their lives far away from the tidewater area and In my opionion I hope they find new jobs in a different industry , and am encouraging everyone else I know, that knows this case, to do the same!

If you don’t say which list is which will anyone know the difference?

And you really think the horse business is a great place rehabilitate felons? You seriously believe that these people who have robbed and injured members of our sport should be welcomed home as prodigal children?

No wonder if that is so this business will never be a reputable sport. Put up a Welcome Sign on the cover of the Rule Book inviting all the convicted to join us in our personal playland. We welcome giving them the opportunity to steal our horses, sexually abuse our children, kill our horses and the horse’s owners who have the audacity to complain.

Well that’s what it needs, I think we have left it long enough up to the “Gentlemen’s Club”.

I have also been ASKED that question more times than I can remember. The Agents and Attorneys involved in my case could not believe these guys were still allowed to show and be members of associations that KNEW they were continuing “business as usual”. There were dozens of calls and complaints
but nothing was done.

Each state does it’s own thing under “state’s rights”. You can collect your Board and the balance of your contract and you probably are not going to be paid for the Vet etc. You’ll have to take her to “Small Claims” Court and probably get a judgement which would then be due and payable from the proceeds; maybe. Did you have it in writing that she pays the vet and farrier?

Legally, you shouldn’t have paid her bills to the others because that wasn’t part of your deal with her.

Someone close to me dropped by her farm while he happened to be there riding apparently. Supposedly she knows about everything, but just desperatly needs someone to break/get her babies to where she can ride them.

Originally posted by eef:
It is a continuing case of “He said She said”

These men have served their time and have lives to rebuild, and they deserve the opportunity to do that without being demeaned further.

He said/she said doesn’t usually result in jail time.
If something is a matter of public record, then it isn’t simply opinion.

Thanks Snowbird
you have a PT

in regards to this t8ksilks comment
 “Actually, they had a fair amount of success. Despite their thievery, they had a way with kids and their parents. With horses? I’m not so sure. They were able to convince people to buy nice horses, whether or not they continued to be nice horses”

I guess you have to look at what you think succsess is
lets see from the two threads about Keg and Josh we have learned that they used a trailer they did not own, a truck bought for them and never paid back, numerous horses and ponies that were not theirs, etc. That is not how I measure success. For me owning my own trailer and paying for it, is success. Owning my own truck and paying for it, is success, owning and showing ponies and horses that I have paid for, is success. Having papers on my horses without committing acts of fraud ,is success. I could go on and on. The fact that you made a comment that they had a way with kids and parents is WHY IMO they should not be allowed to work in the horse buss. anymore. Their way with kids and parents is WHY they got in trouble.

I had to believe it would happen
against the odds. You have the support of those of us who have faced this before
some of us did it alone. YOU will never be alone in your efforts! We may not have an official office and letterhead
but we know how to make things move forward
“We got your back!”

Well said.

Couldn’t agee more Snowbird!

Snowbird ~ My broom, dust pan and flashlight are ready! Myself and the other victims will be more than happy to start cleaning!!!

Was the FBI in prison or the horse in prison or the victim in prison or the defendants in prison?

OH! my t8ksilk; There was a day. I was a teenage rider never went to a show and then with the help of Max Palmer I bought the old Montclair Stable in 1971 at the jolly age of 42 and started Suburban Essex as a tradition. We started showing and running shows and they were so pleasant. Trailers parked on Woodland Avenue and the neighbors loved us there.

Just think of this concept. At A shows they only ran the A-Rated Divisions therefore everyone else went to Local,C or B Rated Shows. My only previous show experience was on the parents committee at the old Junior Essex Troop Horse show. Just imagine everyone had to practically swim their horse across the brook in chest high water just to get to the grass outside course which was uphill and down hill over rolling knolls.

Just imagine everyone arriving at a show by 7:30 AM and knowing they would probably be in the last classes as well. We had canopies for all trailers large and small came with lovely tables set with dishes and glasses for breakfast and lunch. Flowers on the tables and chairs for everyone between classes shaded by the awning from the sun and kept dry there in the rain. That was when I discovered that children didn’t melt if you left them out in the rain.

Kids played games in the back of the parking area and parents swilled old fashions or vodka/tonic and chips n’ dip while they cooked or prepared fresh sandwiches (finger cut size). It was a wonderful family day out away from home usually on someone’s lovely fields.Imagine no cell phones
rarely even a land line. A small generator for the PA System but no night lights. If the show ran late we parked the cars around the rings for light.

When you asked someone whee they were going the next day or the next week it was “you bring the burgers and I’ll bring the beer”.

Believe me there was a time not that long ago when a horse show was rather like a block party. BUT if you were rude to the secretary you didn’t get an invitation. Show secretaries were treated kindly and bribed with home made cookies and cakes. It was not just in my dreams it was for real. All the Medal and Maclay riders became friends and cheered each other on. They all celebrated whoever won the blue for the day. Everyone who won their quota of blues got to show at least once in Madison Square Garden and the Medal Finals. Local shows meant something because you could have a Medal Class at them that would count. It was really hard to find a Medal Class with less than 20 in it. That’s how I met Jonathan Soresi.

I can remember at winter shows when if the show finished early the trainers sat around playing cards because if they got home too early they might be compelled muck stalls. Nobody scratched when it rained; it was a training opportunity, no body stayed home if it snowed because there wasn’t anything better to do if it snowed.

I can remember 300 kids running around the streets of Mahattan all night waiting to show a 5 AM with no schooling in Madison Square Garden. “AND IT WAS FUN!” I remember lunging our equitation horse on the sidewalk in front of the felt forum.

The horses were sparkling clean and braided BY THE RIDERS. What a concept?