Federal Fraud Case

[Snowbird]

I am certain Mary that this problem is not discipline limited. I think many in the other disciplines besides yours have also the same feeling and we need to use our mass authority as the only vote we have to put the USEF on notice as to what we want.

We need to propose excactly that as a Rule Change for 2006 and then we need to support that Rule Change Proposal with tons of mail and email sent to Kentucky and John Long to forward to the Board of Directors.

Send mail as well to and phone the Members of the Board of Directors. We need a Tsunami of mail and phone calls.

Mary Waickman
Training Level
Posted Dec. 29, 2005 06:43 PM
Hello!

I am new to the H/J forum, and really do enjoy learning new things. Being involved in the Sadlebred world, I do not know any of the people or events you all are discussing, but can surely relate to many of the same types of behavior It is, sadly, found in probably all disciplines and breeds.

If it would help, I would also send corespondence to whomever appropriate, although I know only that which has been posted on this forum. I find it REPREHENSIBLE

[LH]

Originally posted by mst:
I read the whole thread and want to ask you all this. I took a consignment horse in for x amount for full sales board. All horseshow expenses would we on top of the sales board. My agreement with the owner was if in 3 months if the horse was not sold, I would continue to keep it on the cuff. Owner paid month 1 to me then stopped paying. Not only does she owe me month 2 and 3 but all the farriers, vets, and shippers have never been paid from day 1. We had contact with each other and she sent me a certfied letter saying her husband 's job didn’t work out as planned so she couldn’t pay me until horse was sold. I said fine, make a payment plan for first 3 months and I will follow our agreement. I didn’t know that she hadn’t paid our vet etc. Soon after, I get a nasty letter saying that she doesn’t know if the horse is alive, taken care of, etc. This is 7 months after the arrival of the horse. I have now paid all the horses back bills and the cost of living. I sent a letter back saying she can come get it for the 2 months owed paid in cash or certified check. That was Dec 2004. Never heard back again. mailing address is no longer good. Do I own it?

Snowbird is right, but it is a “lien” – find out what the law is in your state. MANY states have such a lien law, and you need to only follow the rules in the statute in order to perfect your lien and sell the horse to try to recoup the expenses. If you know a local lawyer, they could look this up in minutes.

Good luck!

[LaBonnieBon]

great idea snowbird!

[bwf]

Well if that it true about him riding in Chesapeake it just blows my mind. As long as people allow them to keep riding, training, etc… I am afraid they will just keep doing the same old stuff. I hope I am wrong, but in my experience I do not think people can change all that much.

[RNB]

Amen SGray!!

[Snowbird]

I would be delighted to do that. Have scanner and web space Good ide all in is time to index it so they can find which specific case they would like. And time to get it done. Neither is insurmountable as a problem.

[khobstetter]

Sheila…you have had WAY too much Xmas “joy”…you are way too funny!!!

[dixieland86]

Carol - I AGREE!

I just hope this thread will help horsepeople who don’t know about their wrongdoings realize that they are not good people to do horsebusiness with, and they cannot be trusted with anything to do with a horse. Understand that the LAW told them they could no longer deal with horses, and one of them at least is doing just what the courts said he was no logner allowed to do. Sometimes people make me wonder…

[Snowbird]

This interesting because how enforceable is that penalty. I hink it requires that these men for the next 6 years will occupy all the spare time of those who care to make sure they donot violate their parole. Especially if this is not supported by USEF.

[obie]

TWF: Did you get Starbound back (Aleva’s daughter)? MJ

[TWF]

Keg will be in Federal Court in Richmond,VA Feb 17th He is going before Judge WIlliams…who presided over this case.

Keg was released from Federal Prison December 27. 2005

[t8ksilk]

To Kfildes:

You say: “Keg knows no other way to make a living.”

He didn’t spring from his mother’s loins as a trainer. Actually, compared to many professionals, he hasn’t been doing it that long. I have it on good authority that he was in the Navy when he came here some ten or so years ago. He must have been doing something else then.

As for his being able to come back into the business, legally or otherwise: there’s been some 6 pages of discussion on this topic. Everyone agrees that “they” wouldn’t do business with him but that others would. Unfortunately, one can’t make someone else do something they don’t want to do, no matter how much effort you make. The only way people like this will stop dealing with him is when they, too, got burned. Take the Shen’s for instance. Mrs. Shen was a loyal supporter even when others were saying bad things about him, even when her own husband got burned. Now she has come to believe that he is all everyone said he is.

Unless you are going to spend valuable time following Keg and Josh around, warning others about them, risking your own reputations, then you have to let it go.

They’ve got their just desserts, people know about it, kudos to those of you who have hung in there making public the wrongful things they’ve done. Leave them to the lives of their own creation.

Now, if you’re going to do something, concentrate your efforts on getting organizations to stop dealing with the likes of them and making it harder for them to survive in this environment.

To RNB: I received your material. I was wondering: I didn’t see anything that prevented these guys from being around horses or in the horse business. Did I miss it or was it somewhere else?

[t8ksilk]

Originally posted by bwf:
in regards to this t8ksilks comment… “Actually, they had a fair amount of success. Despite their thievery, they had a way with kids and their parents. With horses? I’m not so sure. They were able to convince people to buy nice horses, whether or not they continued to be nice horses”

I guess you have to look at what you think succsess is…lets see from the two threads about Keg and Josh we have learned that they used a trailer they did not own, a truck bought for them and never paid back, numerous horses and ponies that were not theirs, etc. That is not how I measure success. For me owning my own trailer and paying for it, is success. Owning my own truck and paying for it, is success, owning and showing ponies and horses that I have paid for, is success. Having papers on my horses without committing acts of fraud ,is success. I could go on and on. The fact that you made a comment that they had a way with kids and parents is WHY IMO they should not be allowed to work in the horse buss. anymore. Their way with kids and parents is WHY they got in trouble.

No, owning your own trailer, blah, blah is not success; it’s owning your own trailer, etc. Success is being able to thrive in a particular vocation or avocation. They did so, for many years. How they were able to do so is the jist of this thread.

[mst]

I read the whole thread and want to ask you all this. I took a consignment horse in for x amount for full sales board. All horseshow expenses would we on top of the sales board. My agreement with the owner was if in 3 months if the horse was not sold, I would continue to keep it on the cuff. Owner paid month 1 to me then stopped paying. Not only does she owe me month 2 and 3 but all the farriers, vets, and shippers have never been paid from day 1. We had contact with each other and she sent me a certfied letter saying her husband 's job didn’t work out as planned so she couldn’t pay me until horse was sold. I said fine, make a payment plan for first 3 months and I will follow our agreement. I didn’t know that she hadn’t paid our vet etc. Soon after, I get a nasty letter saying that she doesn’t know if the horse is alive, taken care of, etc. This is 7 months after the arrival of the horse. I have now paid all the horses back bills and the cost of living. I sent a letter back saying she can come get it for the 2 months owed paid in cash or certified check. That was Dec 2004. Never heard back again. mailing address is no longer good. Do I own it?

[speedy20]

Just FYI- you will have to come to Richmond to the clerks office if you want to read the case. A Westlaw search revealed no mention of the case (i.e.- it must be unreported).

[Pony_Bit]

I have never had any business dealings with Josh and Keg, but I know many of those that have, and the ones that I know still think that they are wonderful, and don’t believe a word that has been said about them, even though they were sitting in a prison cell for what they’ve done. I talked to one of their customers this summer about them and I have no doubt that she will continue to do business with them in the future. It’s a sad state, as this person is a complete novice and has been made dependent on people that do not have her best interests at heart.

And Khamian I would be careful with your birds of a feather statement. During your civil case there were far more of Keg’s friends on your side of the court room then on Gails. Actually they were several that were on your side that did business with Keg up until the day that they put him away.

[system]

Does this mean that he cannot participate in a show or strictly not train or breed. Can he even own or ride a horse if he is not being paid? It states employment only.

[Snowbird]

OOPS! look what happened over Christmas. Don’t want this to disappear.

[system]

Originally posted by Timex:
it’s curious, i don’t see anyone here trying to ‘punish’ anyone. which makes me wonder, why so defensive, eef? what sort of connection do you have to these guys? personally, i’ve never even heard of them, or the case.

By punished I refer to 1 1/2 years in federal prison, the courts did the punishing we need not continue the process. To Quote SC “Life is lived forward and understood backwards.”

[dixieland86]

Eqwit8 - I agree with you, she is a wonderful woman. She actually used to own one of my sister’s old horses. She is also just the sweetest person. And there’s absolutely nothing wrong with needing help, I agree that she shouldn’t be riding… I just was a bit shocked when I heard that she was letting him ride her horses, especially with his reputation.