I think part of the problem is that people try to be so P.C. No one wants to be the bad guy. No one wants to stir the pot. Well I do not mind. In fact…if I see either one at one of out local shows I sure as heck would not be quiet. In fact I have done it once before. I made a comment about a lame horse Josh was on and did not realize one of his clients was standing next to us. His client ran out into the ring and told him what I said. He had a little hissy fit. Well what I said was the truth. Any one with knowledge of what they have done, and rides or trains with them is stupid. I am not P.C. I think they are a joke and a hurt the rest of us in the horse buss.
I think this situation also warrants Rule Change Proposals. Since this a new issue in is extremely appropriate to deal with the way to recognize a Court Order in the Federation. Who has to bring the issue and what route it should travel to become a rule.
The wheels of justice grind on slowly. Can Josh be in the horse business while under appeal? The arguments for the Florida anti-trust case are scheduled for April 4. Still going like the “energizer bunny”.
It sounds like the classic “good ole boys network” crap.
Snowbird…
If the owner of the pony knows who the trader is who sold the pony…de won’t divulge the name of the person he sold it to…why can’t the rightful owner go after him for trafficing in stolen goods…is a horse not goods?..or receiving stolen goods?
I just don’t get the lack of concern on the part of the Federal and state authorities when so much money is involved. I bet the IRS would love to sink their teeth into this. I think lobbying our elected officials may be the answer to making some regulatory law. It will only change with a effective grass roots movement.
Mug shots with their prisioner numbers would be great! 
I came into this sport as a dreamer. I believed in people and authority. I was a member when it grew and expanded and everyone honestly believed they had a fair chance to qualify and even to win at the most prestigious shows. Sometimes we even made it.
I am heartbroken to see where it has all ended and the disenfranchisement of people who believe children should go to school, and that adults should work and horses were a recreational sport. A horse show was a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses.
Snowbird, well said. Myself and the other victims will gladly follow through…just need a starting point. I’m hoping people who read my previous post will take action to help us get the ball rolling. We are more than willing to put forth the effort and hard work it may take but we need the support of people in the horse industry.
Originally posted by obie:
TWF: Did you get Starbound back (Aleva’s daughter)? MJ
No,I tried MJ!..lost her in the mess. She is now a broodmare for a stallion owner in MI see my site. (second page read to the bottom.)
Here is a copy of Judge Williams ruling…
The defendant is prohibited from any employment – self-employment or employment through legitimate employer – in the equestrian/horse industry. This includes but is not limited to the buying and selling of horses, the breeding of horses, acting as an agent during the sale of horses, acting as a horse trainer, or acting as an instructor for riding lessons to any individual. The defendant is permitted to aid his mother in the care of one (1) horse only – the horse located in Chesapeake, Virginia at the date of this hearing. Further, the defendant is only permitted to care for said horse at the Chesapeake location where the horse is currently kept.
You say: “Keg knows no other way to make a living.”
He didn’t spring from his mother’s loins as a trainer. Actually, compared to many professionals, he hasn’t been doing it that long. I have it on good authority that he was in the Navy when he came here some ten or so years ago. He must have been doing something else then.
t8ksilk you misinterpreted my comment. What I meant was that the only way he knows how to make a living is to BE A CROOK!
I went the route of trying to get the professional organizations to sanction these two after my legal case with them. NO ONE would touch it and they continued to work with no issues at all. Had the organizations done something way back then there are many who would not have been hurt by them.
As to “They’ve got their just desserts, people know about it,” - I totally disagreed. The sentence they served was nothing in comparison to the damage they caused.
Originally posted by northplaza:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by QueenMother:
Was the FBI in prison or the horse in prison or the victim in prison or the defendants in prison?
With your board name it isn’t hard to understand why you think the grammar is the most pressing issue in this post.
It sure is nice to be able to get to what is essential in a question, isn’t it?
You must be a real treasure to your friends. I hope when you are missing a horse you come across greater sympathy than that of which you are capable of expressing. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have no idea who you are, but i loff you.
Here is a perfect example of two individuals who are not only stupid,but selfish as all get out! I pity the people who have helped them and continue to do so even know. ( And tso it seems there are some still left) These men need to be behind bars period. Inaddition, it is so sad and disrespectful that they were allowed to be part of an organization such as the VPBA even though they wronged themselves and others. Come on guys! Another example of what does protesting do anyways! I am so sad for all the kids who have been hurt by these jerks and all the adults who have been had. I know of more cases where they sold lame ponies, and never disclosed the fact! Labonne, I would be very interested to see the papers you have requested! Good, informative reading!
BUMP
To RNB regarding language in order setting conditions on probation and its interpretation.
I’'m an attorney and I can tell you that the condition only refers to employment - either self-employed or employed by another. It would not prevent him from owning/riding horses. However, if he is riding for someone else, it may apply if he is receiving anything of value in exchange (could be a broad interpretation of the term “employment”). The reference to ownership at the time of sentencing does not preclude him from owning horses now. It only referred to ownership at the time. But, if he owns horses, still has to make restitution, and isn’t paying it as specified, it is possible for the beneficiary of the restitution to contact the US Attorney’s office to have them (if they will) seize the animals to be sold for the purpose of making him comply with the terms of restitution.
(The foregoing does not constitute legal advice. It merely gives information regarding a specific fact pattern and possible results.)
I still say that the only way you’re going to change how these and others are going to survive in this environment is to be pro-active and urge the organizations to change how they treat dishonest members…not by quibbling over who still deals with him and who doesn’t
Tsk! Tsk! We never had a valuable pony by today’s standards or even the old standards we never had a real show pony. If you mean “Good Decision” he cost pennies and when he qualified for Devon the judges looked at him (a black Connamara) as so ugly they couldn’t imagine how anything that wasn’t Welsh could have gotten there. But, he was brave an scopey and he had a great jockey. He was a pony he got measured and had his card at 14.1 .Then of course there was our little Snowbird, she reared in the circle at the beginning of every class to shake Torri’s hands loose so she could bolt. Always wanted to race her. Both the girl’s shared our one Equitation Horse. Pocount did the Medal with Steffi in the 70’s; with Torri in the 80’s and with Jen Bond in the 90’s. We got him only because Sandy Lobel told me George Morris said no Junior would ever be able to ride him and it’s fun to prove the impossible is possible so he was cheap and even sound, went clean without drugs until he day he died.
The only horse I can think of was ESP who was never a Medal Maclay Horse and who I never wanted to sell but I had to leave behind at the barn because Marvin Ruddy wouldn’t let me have him. He was a horse that topped out at 3’0" and hated 3’6" because his hind end was weak and he just couldn’t lift himself high enough to do 3’6". I tried to to trade a young healthy quarter horse for him after he broke down so we could retire ESP here on the farm but the owner turned me down. Steffi never used him for the Medal and Maclay. We found out pretty quickly that he just didn’t have eight fences in him at 3’6". He surely, was never a jumper.
We liked going to shows and sure it’s more fun to win than lose if the competition is fair. But, we couldn’t do five day shows then and we still can’t do five day shows. If the rules were what they are today we’d have never qualified for anything.
Sally Wheeler saw what was coming and I helped her to try and turn the tide. That’s why there are Zone Horse Shows and that’s why we made it the rule that no on who applied for Penn National could enter the Zone Horse Show. Do you remember the old “Hunter Incentive Committee”?
You know it’s really funny because it seems to me most of the barn kids you talk about are trainers now. Some with really big names. If it wasn’t for the good times of those days I don’t know if this sport would have ever gotten out of the backyards. And, maybe it shouldn’t have!
Duh… sorry I was posting on the wrong thread!!
Just a little cranky about having to bump this up three time to keep it on the front burner. Surely, this issue is one of the most constructive and needed on this whole forum.
Blame my bad mood on the moon.
Snowbird, you are precious!!! Keep it up!! I only saw and read this thread last night! It takes all kinds but we must be aware of the smooth talking crooks! 
