USEF does not publish the votes of any case that goes before the hearing panel.
Information about the Hearing Committee is available on USEF’s website.
If a penalty is applied that information is published on their website and stays there for five or more years.
All the hearings are closed except to parties to the issue.
Those that filed a complaint with the show or the steward for example. And those that are accused of a rule violation plus their attorney is allowed.
A few years ago some of those involved in the horse killing scandel came up for possible re-instatement. USEF did not reinstate them.
There were many threads here on COTH at the time plus petitions were sent to USEF. It appears that adverse publicity for possible reinstatements does play a factor in how USEF handles the situation, or at least they are aware of how the public sees these situations.
Leave YOUR daughter out of this… WTF? Why didn’t these crooks leave other people’s daughters out of their defrauding ways?
And your comment about your “friend” Helena not doing anything wrong because the FBI did not go after her makes me laugh!!! Do you have any clue how many people were defrauded by Josh and Keg that did not make it to the court documents? If they prosecuted Josh and Keg for every person /child they ripped off, they would probably just now be getting ready to start the trial!
[QUOTE=JackieBlue;6141353]
Well, sadly, I have no faith in the USEF doing what’s right. I have every faith, however, that they will do what’s easy, what’s popular, and what serves them best. Maybe I’ve been at this horse game too long, but I’ve gotten used to seeing the unthinkable become the commonplace.
After reading the above, I think I need a vacation.[/QUOTE]
I think we agree that USEF will tend to do what is popular and we have been making lots of noise about this subject (the fraud). I can’t see them risking the bad publicity (and it would be very bad, especially with Mr. Cardine’s “apology” on record) that would be brought on by reinstating these people. JB I really hope that you aren’t right this time…
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;6141073]
We have a disbarred lawyer here who served time last year and then got out of jail. He’s not supposed to practice law, but he went to work for his own firm (now run by his son) and was doing legal work. Had to be brought back before the fed judge and ordered not to go to offices of his old firm. So I’m thinking this might be somewhat similar to what the victims in this fed fraud case are complaining about here. If a family member is fronting for a relative, i.e. pretending to run a business while the convicted felon is really running it, then that person is helping circumvent the order/sentence of the judge.[/QUOTE]
Just wanted to repeat.
And thats why Love Me true is for sale with associates of Josh Cardine too right? People in the area know Josh is still involved with the horses, as is Keg. Its no surprise, its no secret.
No. Publicly shredding a trainer you’ve never met before sounds like sour grapes to me. Obviously, his skills aren’t that lacking, as his rider won reserve, so…
[QUOTE=cloudyandcallie;6141073]
OMG now if victims and reputable trainers or owners complain about these crimes, it’s “sour grapes?” Family members who sit in court and support defendants are there to support their family members who are on trial. I’ve seen some get up and walk out when they realized the family member had done something illegal. I’ve seen them apologize t o victims before trials because they felt bad that their relative did something illegal to the victims.
I’ve also seen family members totally deny the evidence and support their little criminals against everyone else. And assist the defendant in any way they could. And oh yes, they can be very nice to others. Some blame the victims for bringing down their criminal relatives. And so go on with their lives as before. And front for their relatives who are legally barred from participating in a profession.
We have a disbarred lawyer here who served time last year and then got out of jail. He’s not supposed to practice law, but he went to work for his own firm (now run by his son) and was doing legal work. Had to be brought back before the fed judge and ordered not to go to offices of his old firm. So I’m thinking this might be somewhat similar to what the victims in this fed fraud case are complaining about here. If a family member is fronting for a relative, i.e. pretending to run a business while the convicted felon is really running it, then that person is helping circumvent the order/sentence of the judge.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=horseladi78;6141554]
Just wanted to repeat.
And thats why Love Me true is for sale with associates of Josh Cardine too right? People in the area know Josh is still involved with the horses, as is Keg. Its no surprise, its no secret.[/QUOTE]
Is this Love Me True a bay mare? Just out of curiosity…
Greenie Apollo …TRUE! Your daughter isn’t a factor here. I wish you could meet Andi…If you missed it…She’s the one who lost her ONLY pony. She never got another one! Not even a borrowed one. She was robbed of her innocence and every chance to achieve her riding dreams… Consider yourself lucky.
FYI …The FEDS didn’t have to look for more…with chages piling up with only a handful of victims. . . no need for over kill. They were lookin’ at a possible 35 years.
Given the prospects…the “boys” folded like a pair of cheap lawn chairs.[INDENT] Quote: Originally Posted by TWF] Helena was in the court room when Keg denied owning any horses. He lied.
Helena Berlin was not charged as an accomplice in this case although Keg and Josh operated out of her house for years. She was questioned before Federal Judge Williams and testified in Federal Court that she didn’t know how many horses she owned. I try not to think about how many I feed but I do know how many I have!
[/INDENT]Helena wasn’t the target! (unless she was holding all that $$$)
These are the facts:
Fact: Helena testified. She had a significant amount of trouble coming up with ANY number of horses show owned. She even guessed a few times. Leaving the answers up to Keg’s expression. I suppose she had a failure of her memory or they hadn’t worked out the hand signals for “how many horses…”
Fact:. Keg lied.
It was just Federal Court.
The outcome? Grande Impression was in hiding…the FBI seized her THANKS to a TIP
If the FEDS wanted to spend more time on Keg …he should have been charged…Perjury.
Wish you could have been there… I was!
Keep tossing self righteous bombs, get a flea collar and don’t forget to adjust those lovely rose colored glasses.
Barney Ward will probably never be re-instated by USEF–horses were killed. These two guys, apparently didn’t kill horses. But, they cheated and lied to horse/pony owners, which included children. That in itself is non-justifiable. These two can apologize until the cows come home. The horse industry has enough swindlers. They have yet to be caught. These two were. These two don’t merit being in USEF. Their scruples are sorely lacking. Once a cheater, ALWAYS a cheater. The innate character of each isn’t going to change. They will do this again. Hopefully USEF will realize that and never re-instate them.
Yes, leave MY daughter out of it. I didn’t have anything to do with any of this, thank you very much. As I’ve already mentioned, I didn’t even KNOW of then until years after the fact. I’m disgusted by what they did, but the fact that other children was hurt means it’s ok to drag my child into it?? As you so eloquently stated, WTF??
[QUOTE=LaBonnieBon;6141429]
Leave YOUR daughter out of this… WTF? Why didn’t these crooks leave other people’s daughters out of their defrauding ways?
And your comment about your “friend” Helena not doing anything wrong because the FBI did not go after her makes me laugh!!! Do you have any clue how many people were defrauded by Josh and Keg that did not make it to the court documents? If they prosecuted Josh and Keg for every person /child they ripped off, they would probably just now be getting ready to start the trial![/QUOTE]
Maybe they did kill horses, who knows. As I stated earlier, they left mine in a stall, no turn out, no exercise, no grooming, no farrier or vet care, and apparently no or very little feed based on his body condition when we “repo-ed” him. And not only did he come home so aggressive toward humans that he was a danger to himself and those trying to help him, but he also came home with a bizarre, profound, panicky fear of dogs. Soon after he had begun to revert to his old, loveable pre-Josh self, I was hacking him out when he was set upon by 3 Border Terriers. They were out for a walk, off leash, with their elderly owner and saw the horse as a fun target. They came running toward him, barking and even though they didn’t collectively weigh even 30 pounds, my horse went into abject panic mode. He stood straight up on his hind legs, at which point I saw fit to bail (17.2 hand warmblood literally standing upright like an angry bear! :eek:). Before I could even begin to comfort him or run off the dogs he stood upright again, hopped backwards on his hind legs, spun and bolted, ripping the reins out of my hands. He proceeded to run blindly on, the three yapping terrors hot on his heels, until he ran at full speed into a high tensile wire fence. Hitting the fence with excessive speed caused him to fly up in the air and come crashing down on the far side flat on his back and my saddle. He got up, obviously shaken and disoriented and continued to run until he ran down the neighbor’s barn aisle and she was able to stop him and keep him still until I caught up. He was a bloody, shaking, lather covered mess and I was nearly hysterical. After an entire afternoon of doctoring and stitching I thought the whole fiasco, as horrific as it was, was behind us. But it wasn’t. A few days later, he colicked. Badly. THROWING himself on the ground and literally screaming in pain. Long story short - he went to surgery. The surgeon said it looked as if someone had gone at his innards with a hand mixer. Nothing was where it belonged and when I related the dog-chasing-fence-flipping story we agreed that it had to be to blame. The surgeon put him back together as best he could and he seemed to be healing well at home for about 2 weeks. Until he colicked again. Even worse. We couldn’t put him down fast enough. And he left this world without even a moment’s fight.
Did Josh and Keg kill him? No. But he had been around dogs, hell even fox hunted, before Josh got a hold of him and he came back to me so whacked in the head about dogs (and everything, really) that he ended up losing his life over 3 15 pounders having some fun. And I lost my best friend.
Let’s not trivialize what these “men” did. They caused pain, grief and real loss - monetary and otherwise and there’s no room for them in the world of horses.
When I first read your post…I thought to my self…that poor unsuspecting woman.
Kinda hard to HIDE a horse they worshiped and named “The One”
[quote=ApollosMagic;6140993]If Helena had any part, she would be a convicted felon, also. Since when do we punish the mother for the sins of the child??
[/quote]
Really? Since when do ALL persons of interest get charged?
[quote=ApollosMagic;6140993]They operated out of her house. How many women have gone to bed every night with serial killer and not known. How many kids have sold drugs from their parent’s home without the parent’s knowledge. Helena had a full time job, and a life. Keg was an adult. I doubt Helena spent her days trying to figure out what her son was up to.
[/quote]
Again hiding horses on a residential lot, in a shoe box or under your bed is tough!
[quote=ApollosMagic;6140993]Lastly, your birds of a feather comment is highly insulting. I highly doubt that you personally know Helena. I know you don’t know me, therefore, don’t judge or make assumptions about me or Helena
[/quote]
What you do speaks volumes about YOUR moral compass.
Greenie Apollo…anyone can make a mistake. You have a nice “thing” going on. We’ve seen this theme repeat in this situation over the years…many times. It’s easy when you don’t look too deep.
One word - Fraud.
I was in the Court room when Helena -Under Oath - stumbled and appeared to lose her way in her testimony. It must be uncomfortable to look at the whole picture …But visualize if you will…the MANY OTHER VICTIMS not required to prosecute and those who have never come forward. As you discovered and uncovered the “gray areas” and FACT …you make a conscious decision to IGNORE them or ACT.[INDENT]Accepting what “IS” and not what you “Want” requires critical thinking. Assessment begins with a good hard look in the mirror.
Weighing the facts and what path you choose speaks for itself.
[/INDENT]USEF members…stay on top of this issue. Let the USEF know how you feel. Ditto on the Barney Ward analogy.
[QUOTE=ApollosMagic;6143734]
Yes, leave MY daughter out of it. I didn’t have anything to do with any of this, thank you very much. As I’ve already mentioned, I didn’t even KNOW of then until years after the fact. I’m disgusted by what they did, but the fact that other children was hurt means it’s ok to drag my child into it?? As you so eloquently stated, WTF??[/QUOTE]
No one has involved your daughter in anything. Please explain how your child is dragged into this? And your right, maybe you did or didnt know about Keg, Josh and Helena. But now you do. And yes I still stand by my comment of birds of a feather flock together… Also no one made you come and reply to the description of Helena and her horse showing at the local shows. You did that yourself.
Ok so if I understand this, J, Keg’s mother testified at his trial? So she supported him not just by standing by him, but by testifying for him? And she gets t o keep on keeping on while the victims get squat?
Boycott. Money talks louder than anything else. The feds only try the slam dunks. So a lot of people who should have been indicted didn’t get indicted. And a lot of victim’s cases that could have been counts in that indictment weren’t indicted because of minor, not fatal flaws.
Just tell people that they were tried and convicted. Tell people what happened to you. And boycott. Donn’t libel, only tell facts that you have personal knowledge of or what is on the record in court as a conviction.
People are going to think that these people are nice because they can turn on the charm and say that the victims are just vindictive. Once they get ripped off, and they will, they will be sorry. It’s one thing not to know about someone being a crook. It’s another thing to ignore the warnings.
I thought the victims got partial restitution from the proceeds of the sale of a horse that they had hidden being sold and/or monies from an estate they had conned out of some unfortunate
Family members who sit in court and support defendants are there to support their family members who are on trial. I’ve seen some get up and walk out when they realized the family member had done something illegal. I’ve seen them apologize t o victims before trials because they felt bad that their relative did something illegal to the victims.
