I’ve put in for it to be copied and mailed to me… well part of it - it’s HUGE from what they said. I’m getting the indictment, docket and judgment…
I’m more than happy to fax it to someone (as long as it’s not illegal to do that!) once I get it… probably next week they guessed.
PT me if interested…
To RNB, regarding appeal process:
You are correct, appeals can take a long time. However, they are often futile. An appeals court does not relitigate the issues involved, merely looks to see if a reversible error has been committed at the trial court level. An appeal is decided on the paper trail, basically. The judges look at all of the record made in the court below and decide based upon what they read. If the two miscreants are prevented from having anything to do with horses in a professional capacity during the pendency of the appeal, then you all are in good shape (assuming they abide by the ruling, which, given their characters, they may try to slither their way out from under the rock). We will keep our eyes and ears open during the up-coming show season and let you know.
I’m sorry, eef, but life is not fair. I have made much smaller mistakes/bad choices in my life than these 2 men and even tho I felt I had paid the “price”… you unfortunately still have a price to pay with the world.
Think about the “guy” or “gal” who went out and had a couple of beers after work… then got in his/her car… and had a crash, killing someone. Ok, they pay the attorney fees, do time in jail, lose license, etc… but still everyday some mother, father, spouse, sibling, etc has to wake up and know that someone killed their loved one by making a bad choice. That person will do much more “time” after they are out of jail… it’s just life and it’s not always fair.
Not everyone sees things from the same view you do. Things affect everyone differently and I don’t think people telling “their expierence” is wrong…and I don’t see any real bashing going on here. Let’s keep it that way and we can all be happy. 
I hope that the silence doesn’t mean that the Judge changed his ruling in this case. An update would be appreciated.
Update from the Federal Court Hearing held today in Richmond. As I understood Judge Williams ruling there is to be “No horse related activities” for three years. I will clarify the wording and ruling as soon as I receive official court documents next week.
Having been taken in several horse deals (which is why I went to law school) I can empathize with the victims on this thread. Even those awarded money by the court have not come out winners because of the huge legal fees they have had to pay to see their case(s) through to the end.
We as a group have already proven many times over what a force we can be when we join together. This is another instance that deserves our joint efforts.
One other thing we can also do is to make it a point to check out the web sites of those people/farms who have been victimized by these felons. They have been harmed by the bad people in the industry; sadly, we cannot change the past.
But we can show them that we care about our own and, in the future, if you are looking for a stallion, horse, pony or whatever, bookmark these websites and look there first before going elsewhere. They may not have what you want, but if they do – they have paid their dues and deserve your phone call/email to inquire about their horses.
Just an idea.
I was to render my services for free after 3 months but owner was to keep up the vet, farrier, etc. Because owner never paid them from day one, I have had to pay those such bills to insure horses health. The practioners simply didn’t want to continue working on the horse since they hadn’t been paid. Funny enough, all contact addresses and numbers for owner are no longer in service. What does equine abandonment laws allow?
If the judge will accept letters in defense of their character I think they will also accepte letters to tell the judge we agree that they must never be permitted to associate in any business related to the horse sport.
Why not post the name of the judge and the complete address. There is time between the 3rd of January and the 6th of January to send mail to the judge by overnight delivery. That will get the judge’s attention if 500 overnight letters are delivered simultaneously on this matter. Membership in the USEF in that case is not an important factor.
Please put the contact information out here. or send it to me and I will post it. We need a Streey address and a phone number as well for the overnight carriers.
Anyone know what time Keg’s trial is in Richmond? I happen to lie up here and wouldn’t mind attending if I would be allowed? Anyone with info… thanks
Alright, im not going to lie i havent read all 7 of these pages, bc well… lets face it im pretty lazy. but, being the daughter of Debbie (RNB), i guess i shouldnt have to since i was so involved with it. i, personally, am over this whole thing. i think they should have to be in jail for the rest of their lives. anyone that can do what they did to me, my pony, and my family, and every single other person/horse that was involved shouldnt be able to have any kind of contact with horses, possibly even any animal. they completely destroyed so many awesome horses and ponies.
let me set the sence for you guys. when i was 13 years old, i was selling my pony (rainbeau’s northern belle). it was after lexington, and i was starting to outgrow her. when we said we were going to sell her josh and keg were all about it. we had known them before the sale, but didnt know what they were all about. i also used to show ponies for them, and go out to the barn and ride for them. i wish i would have sat down and thought about selling this pony… bc i wish i still had her now. anyway- after we sent her up there to the farm they were at… me (being a child) wanted to go and check on my beloved pony. we had plans to go up there anyway so that i could ride some of their ponies. well, we get there and im looking around, thinking… ok where the **** is my pony. josh begins to tell me that shes not there… shes at another farm down the street bc they are planning on breeding her. when, of course, in reality she was LONGGG gone. she was sold to a family in GA i believe it was? everytime we went up there it was a different excuse. thats all they had were excuses. i was young enough to believe them. now that i am older (20) i would love to run across them… just one more time. i realize that i could say just about anything and they would have heard it before… but the fact that they took my pony from me like that. i cant comprehend how you can do that to a child. especially a pony… i mean im sure you remember your 1st pony, or maybe your childs pony. i know i had sold her but i wanted to make sure she was alright, bc i loved her to death. and i still do. im hoping that maybe one day i can get her back and keep her until her last days (probably wont happen but its ok to think on the bright side). im extactic that my pony even made it out having weight on her bones… as they apparently didnt want to see horses at a good weight. all their horses were underweight, and a lot of them did not survive.
unless you have been through it you have no idea what it is like to have you pony/horse up for sale, and then hear NOTHING about them. any good horse owner would want to know how their horse is doing and all of that. its kind of a state of panic. after that its not even about the money.
point stated. josh and keg are horrible people. they shouldnt have anything to do with HORSES, dogs, cats, birds, snakes, rodents, pigs, chickens, or any other mammal that breaths oxygen.
Pony Bit…I too am amazed at how many people think they are wonderful and still want to do business with them. Even after everything the FBI investigated and charged them with.
They always tried to put the blame on me, for them going to federal prison, when actually I was a victim. I’ve had people, who refuse to believe offical court documents, call me every name in the book. All I can say is I wish this pony mom, me, had the power and connections to just pick up the phone, call the Federal Govt and have people thrown in prison. They wouldn’t be the only 2 there!
Originally posted by RNB:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>It came full circle when the new owners of Belle had her shipped to a show so you could spend the whole weekend with her after 6 long years apart!
Voguesmum ~ Horseplay did find her. One of the other victims in this case flew Horseplay down to Atlanta to show in the Olympic Park, horses were brought in for her to ride, she stayed in a suite on the show grounds, had a groom and she got to show all weekend.
But the highlight of the trip…when the new owners of her pony heard Horseplay was going to be at the park they had the pony shipped to the show for the whole weekend at their expense! Horseplay had not seen her pony in 6 years. When she saw her in the stall for the first time, it was (as TWF would say) PRICELESS.
I can only hope everyone reading this thread will someday have a circle of horse friends as great as the ones who circled their wagons around Horseplay.
How glad we are to hear you found your mare and were able to spend 3 more years with her. Hugs back at ya’ </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I am thrilled to hear she was reunited with her pony! Good to hear she ended up in good hands and is doing well. Wish I could say the same for my girl; when she was sold by the family that bought her from me, she was stuck alone in a field for 7 long years until she was picked up by the rescue that put me together with her adopter. The adopter was not caring for her and many threats later; Crystal came home for good. It was amazing how she still remebered her name; when I said it; her old eyes lit up and she literally RAN to me.
I know here in Canada there is awful people like the people in this case; wish a thread like this could be opened on them so I can steer clear! All I know of is one gal that lies in her sales ads.
Your idealism is misplaced, I’m afraid. And I’m shocked that you are still so naive since you claim to be a battle scarred veteran. When were horse shows a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses? Maybe you thought that as a child but your parents knew better. And the fact that it never was such a place enables the likes of Josh and Keg to thrive. It’s a dog-eat-dog world where even parents of short stirrups will pay exorbitant amounts for ponies and trainers. And because they are willing to go all the way, they turn off their common sense and put themselves completely in the hands of a trainer. It’s only luck that more otherwise sane and sensible people aren’t ripped off.
Originally posted by Snowbird:
I came into this sport as a dreamer. I believed in people and authority. I was a member when it grew and expanded and everyone honestly believed they had a fair chance to qualify and even to win at the most prestigious shows. Sometimes we even made it.
I am heartbroken to see where it has all ended and the disenfranchisement of people who believe children should go to school, and that adults should work and horses were a recreational sport. A horse show was a friendly place where families met to share their love of sport and horses.
While I might not be CEO material, it is true that anyone could do a better job than the clowns and communists who are doing it now.
Originally posted by LaBonnieBon:
What hotels are close by the courthouse? I’m looking for something safe and clean… no frills.
Anyone have suggestions??
You might try the Commonwealth Park Suites Hotel 804-343-7300 or the Crowne Plaza Hotel 804-788-0900. Although I have not stayed at either one they were both recommended. There is also the Jefferson 804-788-8000.
Originally posted by t8ksilk:
<BLOCKQUOTE class=“ip-ubbcode-quote”><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-title”>quote:</div><div class=“ip-ubbcode-quote-content”>Originally posted by Snowbird:
OH! my t8ksilk; There was a day. I was a teenage rider never went to a show and then with the help of Max Palmer I bought the old Montclair Stable in 1971 at the jolly age of 42 and started Suburban Essex as a tradition. We started showing and running shows and they were so pleasant. Trailers parked on Woodland Avenue and the neighbors loved us there.
Just think of this concept. At A shows they only ran the A-Rated Divisions therefore everyone else went to Local,C or B Rated Shows. My only previous show experience was on the parents committee at the old Junior Essex Troop Horse show. Just imagine everyone had to practically swim their horse across the brook in chest high water just to get to the grass outside course which was uphill and down hill over rolling knolls.
Just imagine everyone arriving at a show by 7:30 AM and knowing they would probably be in the last classes as well. We had canopies for all trailers large and small came with lovely tables set with dishes and glasses for breakfast and lunch. Flowers on the tables and chairs for everyone between classes shaded by the awning from the sun and kept dry there in the rain. That was when I discovered that children didn’t melt if you left them out in the rain.
Kids played games in the back of the parking area and parents swilled old fashions or vodka/tonic and chips n’ dip while they cooked or prepared fresh sandwiches (finger cut size). It was a wonderful family day out away from home usually on someone’s lovely fields.Imagine no cell phones…rarely even a land line. A small generator for the PA System but no night lights. If the show ran late we parked the cars around the rings for light.
When you asked someone whee they were going the next day or the next week it was “you bring the burgers and I’ll bring the beer”.
Believe me there was a time not that long ago when a horse show was rather like a block party. BUT if you were rude to the secretary you didn’t get an invitation. Show secretaries were treated kindly and bribed with home made cookies and cakes. It was not just in my dreams it was for real. All the Medal and Maclay riders became friends and cheered each other on. They all celebrated whoever won the blue for the day. Everyone who won their quota of blues got to show at least once in Madison Square Garden and the Medal Finals. Local shows meant something because you could have a Medal Class at them that would count. It was really hard to find a Medal Class with less than 20 in it. That’s how I met Jonathan Soresi.
I can remember at winter shows when if the show finished early the trainers sat around playing cards because if they got home too early they might be compelled muck stalls. Nobody scratched when it rained; it was a training opportunity, no body stayed home if it snowed because there wasn’t anything better to do if it snowed.
I can remember 300 kids running around the streets of Mahattan all night waiting to show a 5 AM with no schooling in Madison Square Garden. “AND IT WAS FUN!” I remember lunging our equitation horse on the sidewalk in front of the felt forum.
The horses were sparkling clean and braided BY THE RIDERS. What a concept?
Funny, I was there too and don’t remember it entirely the way you do. Yes, we all had fun but there was always an underlying current of not being good enough; having temper tantrums when the ride didn’t go as expected; challenges to the height of a pony owned by a young woman who just wanted to display the work she had put into the animal, when that pony was in the same class as someone’s daughter’s pony; huge amounts of money (by that day’s standard) paid for a horse for a girl to ride Medal/McClay and it happening that the horse couldn’t be ridden two feet without it rearing on the girl; kids getting drunk and stupid in the barn and at shows or show parties partly due to the pressure to win and partly due to the lack of parental supervision; other rumored antics between trainers and students; the list is endless. At the time, it was all fun but looking back on it, it seemed that the need to win took precedence over sportsmanship and good sense. Some of those kids were my friends and I’ll bet a dollar to a donut that most of them don’t ride anymore. And that’s the shame of it because it should be a sport that one can enjoy for a lifetime or at least long after aging out of the “juniors”. Your kids were given a legacy, most aren’t so lucky. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I just read this post and it seems more jaded than I meant it to be. My experience during that time kept me riding. It was the best time of my life despite all the stuff going on. Now I’m 30 some years older and still going, though I wonder why when the weather is cold and wet (have to say I stay in rather than go to the barn, most of the cold season). I have a wonderful horse, a great trainer, and still have the dream of “making it” most of the time. However, I have learned to put good sense before desire to win; have learned that my horse is a living, breathing being and more than a means to my end; and that there is a life with horses beyond showing, even though it’s fun and exciting. So, Snowbird, you did provide that “feel good” opportunity for those that wanted it, even if there were (and are) negative factors at work.
From what I have been told I think that they did both! There were numerous people that were effected. I believe there will be a web-site soon about this case.
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Snowbird:
Well perhaps t8ksilk that’s the problem. Then there were more of us who had a passion for the horses then those who thought it was their human contest instead.
Those with the passion for the horses just didn’t stand up against those who thought of a horse show as a vanity pageant for their benefit. If we had perhaps there would be less of that now.
Maybe I’m a pollyanna who lives in la la land but I don’t think so. I really think the majority of “grassroots” people want a fair shot but it isn’t the winning of a $3.00 piece of rayon that they care about. It’s an honest competition. I don’t think that’s changed at all.
What is depressing is all those who cannot attend five day show after five day show don’t have a chance at all. If you had the best horse and rider in the world you couldn’t win anything. It’s become a self sustaining private club at that level.
So, can we redesign for the rest of us who don’t want to spend more than the price of our house on a horse or pony, who believe children should go to school and adults should have work to do. I’d like to believe we can do that.
All the evils come from the vanity where winning is what it’s all for at any price. But the “special” people wouldn’t be special if they didn’t have us to beat. Just suppose we didn’t play in their sandbox.[/QUOTE
Apparently you’ve found god or some higher being since the 70’s. I was baiting you, Snowbird. the woman with the daughter who had a pony was you. The horse that was purchased that wasn’t a Maclay horse was purchased at your barn. Perhaps you’ve forgotten. It was a long time ago.
Make sure you go to the Federal Court House Annex. Kenneth Berlin will be back in court on February 17, 2006 at 9:30 a.m. before Judge Williams on his supervised release conditions.
There is plenty of room in the Court room for anyone who wants to go.
RNB… I got my notification from The United States DISTRICT COURT in the UNITED STATES of AMERICA v Joshua Cardine. The additional conditions for his supervised release were determined by Judge Williams and it was determined that a PARTIAL PROHIBITION would not provide adequate protection to protect the public and therefore added additional conditions you cite in his supervised release.
Now that the Federal Court has weighed in on this case…I hope the USEF will take the advise of another Federal Court who ruled that the AHSA (now USEF) “has the right to keep unsavory people away from the horse shows that it oversees, even if only to prevent the appearance of impropriety.”
It appears that Josh will not be allowed to be involved in the horse business for the next several years…are they then allowed to be “members in good standing” after the Court’s decision???
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