How does this work? You don’t pay anything at the time of breeding?
You pay a booking fee.
Then the stud fee when the foal stands and nurses.
Usually.
There is a booking fee and sometimes a deposit but the majority of the stud fee is due when the foal stands and nurses- that is the definition of “live foal” and it’s easy for an observer to determine.
You get a rebreeding, generally no refund, can be a different mare-usually.
Read the contract carefully when you book a mare or buy straws. Nothing is etched in stone but that’s the reasonable and customary.
I once saw someone try to get out of this because the foal never nursed, as her dam died during foaling. He failed, apparently (foal was registered so he must have paid the fee, anyway). But the fight (from what I recall) went on for months and may have involved court…
It may depend on what breed of horse you’re talking about. Booking fees and/or deposits are not commonly paid for Thoroughbred stallions. Most stud fees used to be due on November 1st of the year the mare was bred but since the downturn in the market in 2008 nearly every farm now offers “stands and nurses” as their usual contract. Some offer a discount if the stud fee is paid by a certain date. Nothing is due until the foal is born healthy enough to stand and nurse.
We’re signing contracts now for breedings in 2016. We will start receiving bills for those breedings in early 2017 (based on when the mare was actually bred.)
Edited to add: if the mare aborts, the foal is born dead, or something else goes wrong, no money is due. (You don’t have to go back and rebreed.)
[QUOTE=caffeinated;8409996]
I once saw someone try to get out of this because the foal never nursed, as her dam died during foaling. He failed, apparently (foal was registered so he must have paid the fee, anyway). But the fight (from what I recall) went on for months and may have involved court…[/QUOTE]
The contracts don’t specify that the foal has to nurse from its own dam. If the foal takes in nourishment, that fulfills the terms. I’m surprised anyone would get very far trying to fight that. (Plus, as you noted, the stud farm can withhold the stallion certificate until the stud fee is paid.)
I agree with LaurieB’s comments. It depends on the breed/registry, but with TBs the rule is ‘stands and nurses’.
When I first started breeding TBs the stud fee was normally due when the foal stood and nursed, but about that time some farms instituted a Sept 1 or Nov 1 due date. But this could be negotiable between the MO and the stallion owner.
There are no booking fee or breeding fees (what the QH people often call ‘chute fees’)
If the stud fee is not paid, the stallion owner can withhold the stallion certificate and the foal cannot be registered without it.
And the foal cannot race without being registered.
With sport horses and transported semen it is different. The stud fee is normally due at time of breeding.
I can’t speak for breeds other than TBs. Nor for “hobby” TB stallion owners or small regional stallions.
For commercially viable stallions pretty much everyone follows the lead of KY stallion farms.
I have never paid a booking fee for LFSN (live foal stands and nurses), NG (no guarantee) or Live Foal Right of Return, or breed back.
By far the most common stallion fee structure is LFSN these day. The fee is due when the foal stands and nurses and generally passes a Vet check. We have lost a couple of foals several days to a week after foaling and were not required to pay. But I have a very good relationship with most of the stallion farms I use.
If the mare is sold at auction the contract becomes NG the moment the mare steps off the van onto the sales grounds.
I pay when I have the money. Every stallion owner would like to see a check within days of foaling. Doesn’t always happen. It may be months before a check shows up. A late fee of 1 ½% is added each month. But this is negotiable. The foal cannot be registered until the stallion fee is paid and the Stallion Certificate is released and sent to the Jockey Club.
Just about all stallion contracts are negotiable. If you don’t ask you don’t get. Or use an agent. Good ones have a fair bit of “pull”. I generally try and get LFSN pay out of proceeds. Which means I pay the fee when the resulting foal is sold at auction as a weanling or yearling. Or privately before the last of the yearling sales. The stallion farm releases the Stallion Cert but retains a lean against the horse. The JC Papers are sent to the Farm. The Farm sends them to the sales company with a lien attached for the amount of the service fee. If the horse doesn’t sell the papers are returned to the Stallion owner. If sold the fee is deducted from the sales price and the yearling owner receives the balance.
Spendthrift Farm started what they call “Breed Secure” for most of their entry level stallions. When you breed to one of their stallions under this plan the resulting foal must be sold at auction. The breeder receives out of the sales proceeds the amount of the stud fee plus a few thousand for production cost. Spendthrift receives its stud fee above that and the balance goes to the breeder. In this case there is a small nonrefundable booking fee.
Some other Farms have followed in recent years. Kind of pissed off a lot of stallion owners though.
LaurieB filled in some other details.
I had a foal born with no eyes who did stand and nurse when guided to the teat but spent the rest of the 10 hours of his life screaming for his dam who was standing right next to him and smashing into the stall walls. I did not have to pay that fee. I also had a no guarantee that I bought at a charity auction, the mare aborted due to placentitis but the stallion owner was kind enough to allow a rebreed. Add me to the list who never paid a booking fee or deposit on a LFSN.
Thank you Gumtree and Laurierace 
What if a foal stands and nurses but then dies within the next couple of days? Not from an injury but an illness or some other problem that it was born with. I have always wondered how strict the “stands and nurses” thing is.
Adding the general conversation from my own personal experience finally having my own mares instead of caring for others: I’m batting 0 with mares getting in foal over the past 2 years. The only good news is I’ve not paid a dime to anyone! (except the vet… who is about the only one making out ok from this)
[QUOTE=ravenclaw;8413158]
What if a foal stands and nurses but then dies within the next couple of days? Not from an injury but an illness or some other problem that it was born with. I have always wondered how strict the “stands and nurses” thing is.[/QUOTE]
Depends on the farm/contract. I worked in the NICU of a major university for several years, so I saw lots of cases where the foal was born “fine” and nursed, but succumbed to illness within the first few days of life for various reasons (congenital defects, septicemia, etc.). Most of the time, the stud farms are sympathetic. But I’ve heard stories from veterinarians about being drug into legal battles on rare occasions.
[QUOTE=ravenclaw;8413158]
What if a foal stands and nurses but then dies within the next couple of days? Not from an injury but an illness or some other problem that it was born with. I have always wondered how strict the “stands and nurses” thing is.[/QUOTE]
As I said in my comment above. But I only deal with and breed to stallions owned/managed by “pros”.
Some “seamen dealers” people who buy/own shares in stallions strictly to sell seasons. Rarely if ever use them to breed their own mares. “Speculators”. These “types” can be jerks. One prominent guy George Harris accused me of intentionally aborting my mare so I wouldn’t have to pay him. One of my best mares too. And I had know the guy for a long time and done a lot of business with him. He’s lucky I didn’t kick the crap out him.
