Feed Brands

[ScarlettTrinity]

Hi All!

I’ve perused this forum but I thought I’d get specific and ask for input/links/suggestions for my particular situation. I recently bought a 16.3, 4-year-old, Dutch warmblood gelding for jumping/dressage/eventing. He’s currently in Illinois and will be moving to Southern California later this month. According to the seller, he gets a mix of grass and alfalfa (don’t ask how much of which, she never bothered to tell me) and grain. He gets 7 flakes of hay per day and 4 pounds of Purina Strategy grain per day. No, it’s not all fed at once. He also had pasture access and sadly, he won’t have that when he comes to CA.

He’s a bit of a late bloomer and still needs to fill out body-wise. I want to feed something that will help support his development and growth and balance the change in the hay quality. From his pictures, he looks to be normal in terms of weight and condition but I don’t know if he’s an “easy” or “hard” keeper. To me, it seems like a lot of food (my 5-year-old didn’t need that much and he was taller) and I’d like to not go broke feeding him

I have previous experience with TC feeds, Cavalor, and Hygain but those horses had different needs and nothing is jumping out at me right now. Thanks to this forum, I found ProElite as well, which looks promising. I’m not the biggest Purina or Nutrena fan. I have inquired with nutritionists but they will recommend brand-specific products. I do know about FeedXL but wanted some suggestions before I spend 5 hours plugging and adjusting on there. I also found the Mad Barn Nutrition Tool which suggests ProElite might be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck. It looks like you don’t have to feed as much to get the same level of nutrients you do from other brands. I’m open to feeding both a ration balancer and a grain if that makes the most sense. I’m also open to a vitamin “balancer” as I used to feed HorseTech vitamins to balance out my feeds.

Lay it on me! What do you suggest? Thanks!

Edit to add: I’m not planning on switching his grain asap but I’d like suggestions on what be better suited down the road.

[WNT]

If he’s getting mixed bale of orchard and alfalfa, they can really vary from a sprinkle of alfalfa on up to a LOT of alfalfa. If you can’t readily get mixed bales, get separate orchard and alfalfa bales and blend them 50/50 and see how he does.

Four pounds of Strategy is under the baseline feeding rate (5.75 lbs) for a 1000 lb horse in light work. There’s liable to be some subtle variance between bags milled in Illinois and SoCal, but not drastic. If the seller can’t be persuaded to send a bag along, get a bag Strategy or two to start him on for a couple of weeks while he adapts to the new hay, turnout, and water. Then transition him to his new feed.

What you’ll want to use will depend on his condition when he arrives and how he rebounds in the first couple of weeks. I knew a very quiet, sweet DWB eventer mare that shipped from being kept in a huge Virginia pasture to a tiny Arizona paddock with tons of alfalfa, and she lost her mind with the change in space and higher energy hay.

For the ProElite, in rough descending order of energy: Performance, Senior, Showman, StarchWise, Grass Advantage (their balancer). There’s also Alfalfa Advantage if you feed more than 75% alfalfa hay. If you fall under the recommended feeding rate for a given fortified feed to maintain desired condition, you can add back 1/2-1 lb a day of a balancer to bolster the nutrient values (amino acids, minerals, vitamins).

[GraceLikeRain]

JB is the expert but I’d aim for as close to free choice hay as possible and plan on a bale a day split into as many feedings or slow feeders as possible. 7 flakes plus pasture is a lot of forage and I’d try to preserve that as much as possible.

Also, I’d stick with the 4 lbs of strategy for the first 4-6 weeks. Let him settle and see how his weight adjusts to new hay and no pasture. If he’s looking thin, swap to a better complete feed hitting at least the minimum requirements by lbs. if he’s looking nice and steady, swap out for 1.5-2 lbs of a ration balancer.

[ScarlettTrinity]

Yeah, I’m not sure how the hay works over there. Here we have separate bales of each hay unless you get something like a three way hay mix. She just said alfalfa and grass. Where he’s at until he ships just has grass hay but I’m leaning towards putting him on alfalfa and orchard grass when he’s here.

I’ll definitely have that feed waiting for him so I can transition him over at some point. I know 4 lbs is under what they recommend to get the full nutrients. I feel like most people feed under what a bag recommends, but I could be wrong.

Thanks for the ProElite info! Their site isn’t really helpful on the differences between them and there didn’t seen to be a difference in the protein makeup, just the ingredients.

[ScarlettTrinity]

I definitely want him to have hay available but I’m not sure I can do a full bale a day. I have previously used TC chopped hay and hay pellets to supplement and keep them busy. I also have a hay ball I can use, provided he’s not naughty and will paw at it.

Definitely keeping him on the Strategy for a bit when he gets here but I want to look ahead and I can get bogged down and go down rabbit holes. Just trying to be prepared. I like the idea of swapping depending on how he’s looking. Thanks!

[WNT]

I missed the Sport in the list, but it’s a straight up sweet feed for high-high energy needs. Its more geared for speed horses. There’s also Omega Advantage which is a fortified rice bran based fat supplement. I’ve seen that paired up with the Grass Advantage for an easily customizable program with a low feeding rate.

None of the PE feeds are “complete” in the sense of replacing some or all of forage, like Purina Equine Senior for example, but they are all fortified with digestive support aspects etc.

Regarding hay and forage, if you can get a weight on him, either on a scale at the vet or measured and calculated, you can figure out what 2% of his body weight is for a starting point of forage. He could easily be 1300 lbs, so starting at 26 lbs of forage a day. A blend of loose hay and slow-fed hay should keep him gut-filled and happy. Weigh your bales and divide by the number of flakes to determine the average flake weight and go from there.

[GraceLikeRain]

@Amberley

A bale a day of CA alfalfa would be 120lbs+ of very very high quality feed

Interesting. Bales are 35-50 lbs in the south. The OP indicated an alfalfa blend. 35-40 lbs of an O/A for a growing big horse on zero pasture with the goal of there being hay left in the bag each day doesn’t seem crazy to me but yes of course 120 lbs would be extremely excessive.

[ScarlettTrinity]

It’s not available at my barn and I’d have to buy it separate and store it somewhere. We don’t tend to feed a lot of oat hay where I am but it’s something I’ll keep in mind

[ScarlettTrinity]

Our bales tend to be three string and can definitely be upwards of 100lbs. Sometimes we get lighter ones that are only 80lbs though.

[GraceLikeRain]

I can’t decide if that would be amazing or not. I’m not a tall or strong person. The idea of wrangling a 100 lb bale feels like a death wish.

[ScarlettTrinity]

It’s not so bad when you have hay hooks and leverage

[JB]

@ScarlettTrinity

I have previous experience with TC feeds, Cavalor, and Hygain

You definitely have lots of options! IMHO, Cavalor and Hygain are way more $$ than the value the provide. There are some horses who simply do better on one of those, for a variety of reasons, but they aren’t feeds I’d start with “just because”, even if you did have good results with different situations

@ScarlettTrinity

suggests ProElite might be the best choice in terms of bang for the buck. It looks like you don’t have to feed as much to get the same level of nutrients you do from other brands. I’m open to feeding both a ration balancer and a grain if that makes the most sense. I’m also open to a vitamin “balancer” as I used to feed HorseTech vitamins to balance out my feeds.

I don’t trust MB as far as I can throw them, they have had major math problems, or had very different average forage analysis from what’s average in the US, or just plain skipped calculating some nutrients from various sources, as well as having incorrect data of the feeds.

PE Sr has a higher feed rate for a 1000lb horse in no work, than TC Sr, at 7.5lb vs 6. So, not sure why MB says you can feed less. Comparing the 2, both have the same protein, lysine, threonine, PE has more methionine, same fat, same copper TC has more zinc, TC has more Ca and P, you get the idea. I think the cost is similar, though I don’t know the cal/lb for the PE, but I assume it’s also in the 1500 range.

TC Sr is a perfectly good feed to start with if you wanted. Sr Gold has more calories, for usually the same $ or maybe a bit more - here, it’s $1 more, but 1800 cal/lb vs 1543. Perform Gold is also 1800, and Complete is 1700 but 23% NSC so not usually where I’d start.

Forage balancers and ration balancers are also just fine, IF you don’t end up spending more trying to add in enough calories for his needs. Any in between calorie needs might be met with TC Lite, or a half serving each of a regular feed + ration balancer.

Unfortunately, you’ll just have to see how he does on your particular hay. Your grass hay may be very similar in calories to his current grass/alf mix = pasture. You can start with a ration balancer if you wanted, he could have 2lb given his size. Then, see how he does by the end of 1 bag which would just be 25 days, and if it’s clear he’s losing weight, then switch to a regular feed

@WNT

None of the PE feeds are “complete” in the sense of replacing some or all of forage,

Well dang, I would have sworn PE Sr was a complete feed, but went to check just to make sure I wasn’t lying, and sure enough, they say to feed 1-1.5% body weight in forage. I’m pretty shocked they don’t have a complete feed at all

@Amberley

A bale a day of CA alfalfa would be 120lbs+

@GraceLikeRain

Bales are 35-50 lbs in the south.

@ScarlettTrinity

Our bales tend to be three string and can definitely be upwards of 100lbs

Yep, that’s why weight is much more important than “bale” LOL

[ScarlettTrinity]

Cavalor is definitely more expensive than Hygain or TC. It was the only thing I could put my old guy on that he would eat because he went off the TC senior feed and he had Cushings. He didn’t care for the Hygain stuff. I used Hygain because another horse I had was allergic to flax, corn, barley, soy, and oats. He was being fed Havens feed and it’s no wonder he was always after his belly

I decided to get this new guy allergy tested and I can use that to help guide me. ProElite is completely new to me and looks to be mid-between TC and Hygain in terms of price. I spoke with someone from that company today who recommended the Grass Advantage as a base and then I could either add Performance or Omega Advantage. When I spoke to someone at Hygain, they suggested the Grotorque or Munga but I could use the Balanced or MetaSafe as a balancer and go from there depending on energy needs. Cavalor online suggested Performix and Vitamiino.

You definitely have lots of options! IMHO, Cavalor and Hygain are way more $$ than the value the provide. There are some horses who simply do better on one of those, for a variety of reasons, but they aren’t feeds I’d start with “just because”, even if you did have good results with different situations

What brands would you look at instead? I’m ok with paying more for a feed if I have to feed less overall. Way back in the day I used LMF for a hot second. Chewy would be my main supplier I think. I have 4 feed store options but they always seem to be changing what they carry…

[walktrot]

@JB

Yep, that’s why weight is much more important than “bale” LOL

This is the most important thing that JB said. She is definitely the expert around here. Always use weight, not flakes or scoops. Estimate your horse’s body weight so you can figure out how much grain to feed according to manufacturer directions. Weigh it to figure out portion size, then mark your scoop to show how much to feed for a meal. Around here a flake runs 4-5 pounds depending on type of hay.

I fed my 16hh gelding Blue Seal (aka Kent) Sentinel Performance LS, timothy mix hay and supplements from HorseTech. My horse needed extra calories. He maintained perfect body weight on free choice hay. He was not a hard keeper as long as he got the right portions. Never got overweight, but did lose body condition if he didn’t get the right grain. If you are at a barn that is feeding him, make sure to write everything out and give to the BO. Include properly marked scoops and bagged supplements. That makes it easier for barn staff to feed the right amounts.

Once you have figured out the amount of feed, call Rod at HorseTech.com and he can figure out what supplements you need to balance the nutrients. I worked with him for years. He really knows his stuff. They have amazing customer servce, still write “thank you” on the box and you still get the bag of cookies with each order.

[clanter]

@walktrot

Estimate your horse’s body weight

we do not have a scale so did take our horses to a nearby place that sells rock, they have a drive on scale to weigh the trucks. For a dollar each we were able to walk a horse onto the scale. step off then obtain the weight of the horse with in 25 pounds (that was the actuary of the scale)

For our horses, we did find the weight tapes to be very close to being correct

[JB]

Horse Weight Calculator

Weight tapes can be off as much as 200lb or so. They really works best for the “ideal” horse - square, not overly-heavy body vs legs (genetics, not weight), not an extra thin/thick/short/long neck

[ScarlettTrinity]

Unfortunately, the barn I’m at does not weigh the hay but the guys are told to each “flake” should be a specific weight. We feed our own grain and all that jazz but never in my life have I fed as much as the bag says I should. I’ve always looked at grain as a way to fill the gaps from the hay. If I fed grain to spec, my horses would’ve been overweight.

What do you like about Blue Seal? It’s not a brand our feed stores carry so I’m not really familiar with it. I do love HorseTech!

[ScarlettTrinity]

@clanter

we do not have a scale so did take our horses to a nearby place that sells rock, they have a drive on scale to weigh the trucks. For a dollar each we were able to walk a horse onto the scale. step off then obtain the weight of the horse with in 25 pounds (that was the actuary of the scale)

That’s really freaking cool! Not an option for me but pretty dang cool!

[ScarlettTrinity]

I will keep this in mind when I get him in hand. Thank you!

[JB]

@ScarlettTrinity

Unfortunately, the barn I’m at does not weigh the hay but the guys are told to each “flake” should be a specific weight.

Small 2-string square? Average weight of the bales? That helps get an average flake weight

@ScarlettTrinity

We feed our own grain and all that jazz but never in my life have I fed as much as the bag says I should. I’ve always looked at grain as a way to fill the gaps from the hay. If I fed grain to spec, my horses would’ve been overweight.

With tested forage? That can be fine. Otherwise, either feed regular feed to the bag amounts, or use a ration balancer if that’s too many calories