I am located in Arizona in the middle of the desert. My colt is turning 2 months old this week. He is eating free choice bermuda and alfalfa hay. As well he is getting 3/4 lb of SafeChoice Mare and Foal twice a day. He also has mineral blocks. He is growing rapidly; parents are both 15.2hh and he was 12hh at 8 weeks. I don’t want to over supplement and cause growth issues. As we go through the next couple of months and weaning, what should I be feeding him on the dry lot to supplement the hay?
Under-supplementation causes more growth problems than over, unless you’re REALLY over 
What you feed in addition to forage depends on his weight and calorie requirements. If he doesn’t need a lot, then a ration balancer is good - 2-3lb depending on his predicated adult size.
If he needs more calories than that, a good Growth feed, low in sugars. I would much rather see him on TC Growth than the Safechoice - 13% NSC vs 23.
Right at this point I’d rather him be on a milk-based pellet than the M&F. That would be much much easier for him to digest. Progressive makes a good one.
Just my opinion, but I think 3/4 lb of any kind of feed twice a day is too much for a 2-month old youngster. At that age they should be getting most of their nutrition from the milk their dam produces…
I have mare that will not share her grain with her babies, and the earliest I even consider feeding the youngster any kind of solid food is at the age of about three months and at that point I give them maybe 1/4 lb once a day just to give them a taste.
I have been doing this for years and have not had any problems yet… But then I also don’t wean until they’re at least 6 months old - usually 7 months or even a little older. At that point the foals are used to eating their grain twice a day and separated from their mothers… Weaning is typically a non-event at that point!
I think it just depends on what’s being fed. The M&F here isn’t doing any good - he can’t digest most of it, and it’s high in sugars. A milk-based feed could be introduced at this age,but if his weight is good and mom is getting good nutrition, it’s not necessary, as milk is all he needs.
If mom is allowing baby to eat her food, then separate them for meals, or stand guard and don’t let him. I wouldn’t be giving him his own serving of mom’s food just to keep him out of her hair, for the reason I stated above - he can’t digest it (well) at this age.
Ditto on what others have said. The foals don’t have the enzymes in their stomachs until at least 3-4 months to process the grains you are giving him. And ditto on leaving him on the mare as long as possible. We keep the broodmares feed bins high. When the foal is tall enough to get some they gradually have access to the grain. The mare will probably push their noses out so they don’t get too much. As time goes on the foals grows and then we change the feeding to allow them to have their own stall with their own feed. They nurse off the mare during turnout.
I agree with JB’s last post. Also, I would have the mare on Vitamin E and put the foal on it after weaning, as it is needed when a horse does not have access to good green pasture.
Oh good call on the Vit E - pretty important for all horses not getting enough fresh grass.
Thanks for all the information. I wasn’t planning on feeding the colt supplements this early, however, he is getting into the mare’s feed. She gets 5 lbs safechoice MF and 3 lbs Empower Boost twice daily. It takes her almost the entire time between feedings to finish it. I also work downtown all day during the week. So watching them or separating are not possible. I have moved her bucket numerous times to keep up with the colt growing and now it is in the highest place possible flipped around on the other side of the panel. The mare has to reach over the top rail of the panel to eat. The colt proceeded to climb on the panels to get into it and the mare doesn’t mind sharing. When he got into it, he didn’t nibble, he would take huge mouthfuls and I had no idea how much he was eating. I got him his own bucket and it did the trick, now he doesn’t even bother checking out mom’s. He also eats the supplement normally now instead of inhaling it.
Since I have to give him something to keep him out of his mom’s, I will see if I can get the milk replacer. The vit E in the safe choice MF is 150 IU/lb. Does the mare need more than that? I have a feeling I will have to wean around 4 months due to the colt draining his mom. I have struggled to keep weight on this mare since before foaling. With as much as she is eating she has gained some weight but is still ribby and weak looking on the top of her rump. My vets said it is due to the colt being so large for her size. I do plan on changing the mare to TC, due to the NSC, after weaning. I don’t want to risk sliding backwards by changing her feed while she is still nursing.
It’s not milk replacer you’re looking for, it’s a milk-based pelleted feed Progressive has one - Foal’s First Starter and Creep. I think Seminole and Buckeye have one as well.
IMHO, yes, the mare needs a good bit more Vit E than that. Think 1000-3000IU in addition to her feed.
5lb of M&F and 3lb Boost isn’t a whole lot of food, really, for a nursing mare, and 5lb of the M&F isn’t adequate from a nutritional standpoint. Their calculator says 11+lb for an 1100lb mare in the first 3 months of lactating (and that could go up to 16lb, but could go down a little if necessary). That’s the recommendation from a nutritional stand point, probably assuming average quality hay. You’re at half that. At 3 months, that range drops to 8-11lb.
I would switch her to 10lb of the TC(changing slowly) for an overall better profile. She might also like that feed a lot better and not take all day to eat 5lb of it
Milk based pellet…added it to my shopping list so I don’t go asking for the wrong thing:) Just to clarify she is getting the feed twice daily, so in total daily intake is 10lbs MF and 6 lbs boost. I could try mixing the TC in slowly and see if she speeds up or slows down her intake. Her feed is providing 1500 IU of vit E. What is the best form of vit E supplement to add in?
http://purebulk.com/vitamin-e-powder-700iu.html#.U8tGA6a9LCT
I buy natural vitamin E in bulk powder and sprinkle in feed (3k/day).
[QUOTE=Sporthorse Shop;7678456]
Milk based pellet…added it to my shopping list so I don’t go asking for the wrong thing:) Just to clarify she is getting the feed twice daily, so in total daily intake is 10lbs MF and 6 lbs boost. I could try mixing the TC in slowly and see if she speeds up or slows down her intake. Her feed is providing 1500 IU of vit E. What is the best form of vit E supplement to add in?[/QUOTE]
I just give vitamin E gel caps in the feed. I get a big jar at Costco or Sams.
I think I have your mare and foal! My colt has been into his dams food from almost the beginning. He is tall, and she shares. About two weeks ago I began separating them for her grain time. My vet was a little concerned about him growing too rapidly. I may try flipping her feed bin backwards over the to railing, that is a great idea!
I did the same thing with the colt’s bin, although it is 2 rungs down. If I put his bucket in the stall, his mom ate his food first. I checked out creep feeders and read mostly bad reviews including some horror stories, so I didn’t want to try those. I noticed he was constantly sticking his head through the panels to eat fallen grain, nose the dog, grab anything within reach, say hi, etc. So I hung his bucket on the outside on the rung that was level with his chest. Mom tried in vain to reach it and failed and gave up. He could comfortably eat. I will probably move it up one rung in a couple of weeks. I checked and the mare can’t quite reach it there. Then he should be weaned before be outgrows that spot.It does look comical with both of them eating outside their stall.
Also, should I give the vit E to my other adult horses who are also on the dry lot?
My mare too didn’t care if her food was taken, and the foal was more than happy to take it. I had the feed bucket up so high at one point it was hard for her to eat, but he’d still stand up and reach in :rolleyes: For a little while I stood guard, then I got tired of that and put him in a separate stall. He was also getting Progressive’s Starter feed (at a half dose, along with Rejuvenaide Plus) for a while due to some tendon issues that were slowly resolving.
[QUOTE=Sporthorse Shop;7678855]
Also, should I give the vit E to my other adult horses who are also on the dry lot?[/QUOTE]
Yes, as stated before, all horses who don’t get adequate fresh grass should be on supplemental E. Horses can’t make it, they have to eat it, and hay has next to none in it.
http://purebulk.com/vitamin-e-powder-700iu.html#.U8-9BqjK5sv
Another thought. If your mare is a bit thin and still slow to clean up her feed, she may have ulcers. A month on ulcer meds may make a huge difference in her attitude. It is very easy to underestimate just how much a mare’s calorie needs increase during lactation. Most of mine are still relatively easy keepers, but I have had a few that were a real challenge to keep in flesh. They required 3 feeds a day and all the hay they would eat.
This was on a thread a while back but since it has come up again. Foals are not able to process cellulose, so that is most of the material in hay and grasses. They eat it but do not get much out of it. They can digest grains and cereals (much like a human baby can eat pablum or rice as a first food. These grains (starches) do not require any special bacteria to digest them, only enzymes which are present at that age but not in the high quantities that the enzymes for lactose are. By 3 months of age this changes and they will be better suited to digest starch.
However, Siegi is right in that at that age, the mare’s milk is the food that the foal will be able to get the most nutrition from. There is several articles that recommend giving the foal some concentrate when they are with their mother to avoid a huge diet change at weaning. Hay loses a lot of nutrients over time so I would be careful to make sure all the vitamins are present in required amounts in the mares diet.
http://www.prognutrition.com/pn/nutrition-information/feeding-the-nursing-foal/index.jsp
I started looking for these products during the week, but most places are closed by time I head out. I finally had a chance to try to hunt down all the items today and boy was that a fiasco. Feed stores were listed as Triple Crown dealers and when I walked in they had no clue what Triple Crown is. The couple that carry Triple Crown only carry the Senior and/or Complete. No one had heard of milk-based pellets. Finally, fully frustrated, I went back to the largest feed store and looked at every product on the shelf and finally found milk-based pellets. The only choices were Land O Lakes or Foal-Lac. I bought the Foal-Lac at an outrageous price for 25 lbs. I had the feed store special order the TC Growth. I live in a decent size city, but it is tough to find anything outside of mainstream products.
My vet was out this week as well and I asked about the vit E as well as general feeding. He said if the Alfalfa I feed is leafy and green, there is plenty of vit E in it. I buy only premium hay for the mare and colt. So, now I don’t know whether to supplement or not. Testing the hay is out of the question, since I can only store 2 weeks worth at a time. If I supplement, is it possible to over supplement, or will they just flush the extra through their urine? My vet did say in the desert I have to worry about low selenium and phosphorous. Desert hay is known for being high in calcium. So, when we get closer to weaning I have to start supplementing the colt for a correct phosphorous and calcium balance. He also said I will have to wean by 4 months at the latest based on how fast the colt is growing and the condition of the mare.
TC Sr is sooooo similar to the Growth that I wouldn’t have a problem putting this guy on it, working up slowly of course.
