Feeding Foals - sanity check, please

[a_new_breeder]

I know this is a constant topic, but the science is ever-evolving and there’s a lot of misinformation out there! I know several of you are brilliant with nutrition, so I’m hoping for a quick sanity-check.

My warmblood foal is ~ 3 months old, and still nursing. Born on the smaller size, and currently weighing in at 330 lbs (using the average of several girth/length/height formulas, and I’m confident this is about right), should mature ~ 1200 lbs. I know milk quantity and quality decreases around this time, so I’m trying to prepare for the inevitable transition to only solid foods. When I plug everything into FeedXL, it’s really hard to get to enough protein (and calcium, to a lesser degree) without overdoing vitamins A and D to alarming (i.e., magenta) degrees. I spoke to a free nutritionist from a commercial company (all the independent ones are booked out for months, but will get something on the books soon), and she said the hardest part is getting enough protein into them (but ultimately wasn’t too concerned as long as the foal is still nursing). I know not to “feed for growth” (risk of DJDs, OCDs, etc.) but I want to make sure I’m not underfeeding, too!

My questions to you:

1. What is the best way to get protein into them without overdoing all the vitamins and minerals?
2. How concerned should I be about overdoing vitamins A & D? They seem to be in everything in outstanding amounts.
3. Shouldn’t calcium be ~ 1.5-2:1 with phosphorous? (FeedXL estimates her needs as 53 g CA and 30 g P, the diet below is ~ 52 g CA and 24 g P, so I think that’s fine, right?)
4. Are the topline and muscle formulas for sport horses (e.g., Proelite Topline Advantage) appropriate for a young pre-weanling? In theory, should be fine, right? In practice, am I overlooking something?

This is about as balanced as I can get it, according to FeedXL (it’s somewhat limited by her small appetite, and feeding has to be supervised, so nutrient density is important until we can get an appropriate creep feeder set up and she can eat at her own pace).

• Dam’s milk: ~ 30 lbs (estimated from FeedXL’s formula)
• Grass hay: 75% orchard, 25% timothy (no hay analysis as the source changes regularly)
• Alfalfa: ~ 2 lbs (estimated from 1 ~ 5 lbs flake, split with her dam, so maybe only 2 lbs for the foal)
• Buckeye Grow N Win ration balancer: 1 lb
• ProElite Topline Advantage: 8 oz (<-- to fill the protein gap)
• Flax: 40 g (for the omega 3 fats)
• Various pre- and probiotics

This is what this looks like:

Thoughts? Anything alarming? I’m in the Mid-Atlantic, in case that matters. Happy to find cheaper options for feeds, but also willing to spend what it takes.

Also very happy to hear suggestions for nutritionists with foal experience - I’m hoping to make some more calls this week and get something on the books.

[JB]

The fact that you don’t have your own forage analysis makes anything FeedXL, or any nutritionist, does, no more, or less of a good guess than just picking a ration balancer (for most foals), or a growth feed for those who really do need the calories.

Buckeye Grown N Win is fed at 2.25-2.5lb from 4-18 months, for a foal aiming for around the 1100lb adult size. So doubling your 1lb to 2lb will cover the protein. No need for the ProElite Topline Advantage, which is basically a condensed Grass Advantage

For this next month you can feed a milk-based creep feed then wean onto the ration balancer, or just wean onto the ration balancer as 4 months gets really close

[Montanas_Girl]

I’m a nutritionist and a breeder. You’re welcome to PM me if you’d like my phone number to talk about your foal and feeding program (I work for a feed company, so I don’t charge for consults, even for people outside our area).

If she is still nursing and growing at a steady rate, I really wouldn’t be overly concerned about trying to get enough protein into her. I do prefer all or mostly alfalfa hay for lactating mares and young foals, though, for overall nutrient density and digestibility.

Take everything FeedXL advises with an entire shaker of salt.

[a_new_breeder]

@JB

Buckeye Grown N Win is fed at 2.25-2.5lb from 4-18 months, for a foal aiming for around the 1100lb adult size. So doubling your 1lb to 2lb will cover the protein. No need for the ProElite Topline Advantage, which is basically a condensed Grass Advantage

Thanks JB! I think you hit the nail on the head, though - the density of the ProElite Topline Advantage is what I’m getting at. The foal is a slow eater, and has to be supervised for feeding so the dam doesn’t gobble it up instead. Hence trying to minimize the volume (a mare-proof feeding set up is in the works).

I opted to transition her off the milk-based pellets at 3 months - with it being only 18% protein, and a (modestly) higher NSC than Grow N Win (16% vs 13%), an oatmeal-based feed didn’t seem to be adding much value. But perhaps it’s filling a gap I’m not seeing? (Plus then she was even less interested in any RB, and ultimately, I wanted to be able to feed “meals” to sneak in probiotics, given a necessary protracted course of antibiotics.)

Fair point about not over-thinking the precise quantities of everything though, in the absence of a hay analysis. I tend to worry about the compounding of slight or minimal errors over time, hence try to be as precise as possible with everything I can control, but you’re right that it’s probably all a wash (since I also have no idea how much milk she’s drinking or the quantity of hay she’s eating). That’s the kind of sanity-check I was looking for!

Thank you!

[a_new_breeder]

Thank you! I appreciate the offer. I think I sent you a PM

[JB]

@a_new_breeder

the density of the ProElite Topline Advantage is what I’m getting at. The foal is a slow eater, and has to be supervised for feeding so the dam doesn’t gobble it up instead. Hence trying to minimize the volume (a mare-proof feeding set up is in the works).

Can they be separated for meals? She’s old enough, and it’s a nice way to start setting them up for a stress-less (or at least much less stressful) weaning

@a_new_breeder

I opted to transition her off the milk-based pellets at 3 months - with it being only 18% protein, and a (modestly) higher NSC than Grow N Win (16% vs 13%), an oatmeal-based feed didn’t seem to be adding much value. But perhaps it’s filling a gap I’m not seeing? (Plus then she was even less interested in any RB, and ultimately, I wanted to be able to feed “meals” to sneak in probiotics, given a necessary protracted course of antibiotics.)

At 3 months, she can’t digest adult foods, just milk-based things. It’s heading toward adult digestion, but that really starts ramping up around 4 months. At 3 months, anything other than mom’s milk is just filling in gaps, it’s not a major source of calories or nutrition (all else equal).

@a_new_breeder

Fair point about not over-thinking the precise quantities of everything though, in the absence of a hay analysis. I tend to worry about the compounding of slight or minimal errors over time, hence try to be as precise as possible with everything I can control, but you’re right that it’s probably all a wash (since I also have no idea how much milk she’s drinking or the quantity of hay she’s eating). That’s the kind of sanity-check I was looking for!

you’re welcome! It’s easy to create and dive into a rabbit hole of micromanaging nutrition, but it’s just not necessary. If you were dealing with issues, it would be worth testing the dam’s milk, but as long as HER diet is properly fortified, then the odds of there being any real issue in passing nutrients on to the foal, are pretty slim

What’s mom eating?

I also just realized the weight of the foal - the usual girth/length/height measurements aren’t all that accurate for foals. A better measure is G to the 3rd (not 3x) x 90. Granted, that was arrived at based on TB foals, but unless your WB foal is from old style heavy parents/pedigree, it’s probably good enough