Feeding protein to horses to build topline?

[StarPattern]

Hey! I have a senior Standardbred mare who is sorely lacking a top line. She was recently trained under saddle (at the ripe old age of 21!) and is doing well, but her top line seems to be resistant. I don’t ride her often because I don’t want to hurt her back because of the lack of top line and muscling, but we’re gradually increasing the time spent under-saddle.

We’ve been doing a lot of in-hand trotting and hill work to build her condition, plus various stretches (include belly tickles to prompt her to lift those muscles up).

I’ve read multiple sources that recommend adding protein to a horses diet, namely Whey Protein. Now, I know that’s obviously not the human variety… but what supplements can I look into? Her existing diet is a mixture of free grazing plus 2 five-gallon buckets of hay cubes twice a day to supplement (I know, real scientific measurements for that). She gets 2 cups (that’s the measurement after soaking) of beet pulp every day as a means to get her kelp and Hoffman’s Rations into her and to add the extra little bit of roughage into her diet. In the winter, I also add senior feed to the mix because she doesn’t winter too well.

Any ideas of protein supplements I can look into to help her top line a bit?

[JB]

Given the near 24x7 grazing, you’d be better served by replacing the 10 gallons of hay cubes with with some appropriate amount of a fortified commercial feed, such as Triple Crown Sr. She doesn’t need more roughage, but she likely needs more nutrition, possibly more quality protein and amino acids.

If the hay cubes are alfalfa, then lack of protein likely isn’t the issue, but that depends on how much the 10 gallons actually weighs.

[Simkie]

I have a mare that does best with a LOT of protein. I feed a very nice alfalfa full time in the winter, and she looks beautiful. Summer, she’s inside eating great alfalfa at night and out on grass during the day…and her topline melts off of her. I add in tri-amino? It pops right back. Little backwards that she looks better in WINTER, but it’s because of all the really high quality alfalfa she eats.

When you feed her senior in the winter, does she look better? If she does, just do that. If she’s always poor in the topline, I’d consider triamino. It’s cheap. It’s generally well accepted. It’s a great place to start.

[2miniB]

I’ve noticed that my ~29 year old mare needs more protein as she’s gotten older. If she doesn’t get enough protein, her spine becomes more prominent. She has EMS and just adding a bit more of her TC chopped forage or hay works for her. Obviously, this won’t work for all senior horses.

I’d also make sure teeth, fecals/deworming are all UTD. A chiro might also help. My mare just got adjusted today and she had some significant issues with her TMJ. A high quality probiotic can be helpful too.

[StarPattern]

She maintains a similar appearance in summer and winter, albeit fuzzier in the winter. She’s up to date on everything, but could stand to see a chiro again. She saw a chiro in the spring time, who determined her hip was a little bit out. When I first got her, her hip and pelvis was drastically out, which made it impossible for her to trot. Once everything was back in place, she decided she liked to trot and canter. She seems a chiro every couple months, depending on how she’s moving, and I spring for a massage about twice a year for her as well. Her teeth were last floated in June 2015 and I had both an equine dentist and her vet check at the end of June this year while they were around for routine visits. Her teeth are fine now, but I’ll get them checked again before winter just in case something changes. In addition to her yearly vaccinations, I had the vet give her a fitness test as well to see just how bad her heaves were and if she’d be sound for riding at faster than a trot. Color me surprised when the vet said she had no sign of heaves, but could possibly have some type of allergies which would be why her breathing gets a little rough in spring and fall. So she’s on Zev for that, and it’s made a world of difference.

Is Triamino something that could hurt her if she doesn’t actually need it, or does it work similar to Vitamin C where they just pee out the excess? I’ve never heard of it and I’m very unfamiliar with protein on a whole (I could probably use more of it in my diet too), but I’d like to give it a try, just to see if it makes a difference, but I’ll also experiment with cutting some of her roughage out and increasing her amount of senior feed.

Thank you!

[Texarkana]

Tri-amino is just a supplement of three essential amino acids. Amino acids are the building blocks that link together to make up what we call protein. The three amino acids in Tri-amino are naturally found in horses’ diets (albeit frequently lacking in poor forage) and are more or less the “parts” of protein chiefly responsible for building muscle.

So no, the supplement will not hurt her. Quite the opposite, especially if you believe her lack of topline is nutritional. The same three amino acids are added to most every quality commercial feed, which is part of the reason why increasing her senior feed alone will likely help.

[StarPattern]

Thank you! At this point, I believe her lack of top line is due in part to her lack of exercise (but we’re working on that) and her age/changing nutritional needs. It’s only been recently that I’ve managed to get a handle on her ulcers as well - careful maintenance and ensure she never works on an empty stomach has been the key to that, but for the longest time, she was a hard keeper because of them. Now that they’re under control, I’m slowly working on the rest of her nutritional needs to figure out the best regime for her while introducing light saddle work to her life.

I think what I’ll do is add more senior feed to her diet, as well as the Tri-Amino, just to really boost the amount of protein in her diet. Then, I can make adjustments to her feed as we go once I start seeing a change in her top line. My thought is to get a lot of extra protein into her, because I don’t know how long she’s been lacking and I’m not 100% sure the quality of her forage. My barn owner is currently driving into Manitoba every few weeks because the quality is better in the hay there. Alberta hasn’t had a lot of good luck with hay the past few years.

[sdlbredfan]

Loss of topline can also be a symptom of Cushings, aka PPID. If your Vet has not tested for that recently, it would be a good idea to check that now.

I agree that she probably needs more protein in her diet. Many older horses have loss of digestive capability, which is why senior feeds are recommended for older horses. Those feeds are made to be easily digested.

[islandhorsegirl]

I agree with checking for Cushings. And while she may need more protein to combat muscle wasting, older horses often cannot handle more due to declining kidney health. It can put a lot of stress on the kidneys.

[CindyCRNA]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;8743424]
Tri-amino is just a supplement of three essential amino acids. Amino acids are the building blocks that link together to make up what we call protein. The three amino acids in Tri-amino are naturally found in horses’ diets (albeit frequently lacking in poor forage) and are more or less the “parts” of protein chiefly responsible for building muscle.

So no, the supplement will not hurt her. Quite the opposite, especially if you believe her lack of topline is nutritional. The same three amino acids are added to most every quality commercial feed, which is part of the reason why increasing her senior feed alone will likely help.[/QUOTE]

I just added this to my TB’s diet.

[StarPattern]

[QUOTE=sdlbredfan;8743963]
Loss of topline can also be a symptom of Cushings, aka PPID. If your Vet has not tested for that recently, it would be a good idea to check that now.

I agree that she probably needs more protein in her diet. Many older horses have loss of digestive capability, which is why senior feeds are recommended for older horses. Those feeds are made to be easily digested.[/QUOTE]

Cushings was one of the things I asked my vet to test for in June when we did her annual vaccines. The vet didn’t seem to think she had cushings, just because she didn’t really have any of the classic symptoms. She generally sheds out pretty quick, except for her belly - she retains a few longer guard hairs that I just whisk off with a razor, and it’s a fairly even shed. Her weight stays pretty consistent and her appetite is generally good. Her teeth are fine and aside from an abscessed tooth that was removed, she’s had no issues. She doesn’t appear to drink excess water or urinate in excess, although she has retained her old racing habit of peeing when she hears “ssssssssst”. That’s a little amusing.

She definitely has a little bit of a belly, but she was also a broodmare for 10 years and that could be due to stretched muscles. Her vet said she’s in fairly good shape for an older girl, but I guess anything is possible. Is there a better way to test for Cushings instead of a blood test? According to her vet, her blood test did not reveal anything that pointed to cushings or the onset of it.

It’s kind of a bad picture, but this is her in the first week of April, before she started shedding. It was her first time under saddle. I hope the photo works.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12916763_10156704255770335_5553225392716651186_o.jpg

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12961442_10156704251570335_7854168344199406588_o.jpg

[StarPattern]

Actually, looking at these pictures… her top line doesn’t look as bad as I was envisioning it. She was completely shed out a month following the pictures when the weather turned around and stopped threatening snow.

[Texarkana]

She is a very pretty girl. And how neat she is starting under saddle at the grand age of 21! Gotta love those STBs. While the picture is hard to judge from the angle, her topline looks totally fine to me for a 21 year old coming out of winter.

But that winter coat screams possible PPID/Cushings to me. It’s the waviness that makes me suspicious. At this point, it may just be something to keep an eye on…

[JB]

I would totally get her tested, using the ACTH test. It’s much more likely she has it given her age, than her not having it due to “she didn’t really have any of the classic symptoms”.

As Tex mentioned, sometimes it’s the waviness in the Winter coat that is the first visible sign, even if they shed normally. Better to know sooner, and treat earlier, than wait longer for obvious signs to start, and then try to play catch-up on a more advanced disease.

[S1969]

[QUOTE=StarPattern;8744411]
Cushings was one of the things I asked my vet to test for in June when we did her annual vaccines. The vet didn’t seem to think she had cushings, just because she didn’t really have any of the classic symptoms. She generally sheds out pretty quick, except for her belly - she retains a few longer guard hairs that I just whisk off with a razor, and it’s a fairly even shed. Her weight stays pretty consistent and her appetite is generally good. Her teeth are fine and aside from an abscessed tooth that was removed, she’s had no issues. She doesn’t appear to drink excess water or urinate in excess, although she has retained her old racing habit of peeing when she hears “ssssssssst”. That’s a little amusing.

She definitely has a little bit of a belly, but she was also a broodmare for 10 years and that could be due to stretched muscles. Her vet said she’s in fairly good shape for an older girl, but I guess anything is possible. Is there a better way to test for Cushings instead of a blood test? According to her vet, her blood test did not reveal anything that pointed to cushings or the onset of it.

It’s kind of a bad picture, but this is her in the first week of April, before she started shedding. It was her first time under saddle. I hope the photo works.

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12916763_10156704255770335_5553225392716651186_o.jpg

https://scontent.xx.fbcdn.net/t31.0-8/12961442_10156704251570335_7854168344199406588_o.jpg[/QUOTE]

So did the vet test for Cushings or not? I can’t tell from your response – “the vet didn’t want to test/didn’t think she had Cushings” and “According to her vet, her blood test did not reveal anything that pointed to cushings or the onset of it.”

If the vet did an ACTH test, I’d ask what the results were. This would probably cost about $100; so you should remember having it done.

If not, then yes, I would test. She does have classic symptoms of PPID - lack of topline, a “bit of a belly”, some wavy winter coat, and her age.

They certainly don’t mean that she does have Cushings, but it would be silly not to rule it out before trying other ways to build her topline, because it would be pointless.

Either way, I’d say she should get a full ration of a good senior feed in her diet rather than hay cubes.

[StarPattern]

The vet pulled blood at my insistence, even though she didn’t believe we were looking at a Cushings diagnosis. She didn’t get any abnormal results from the blood test. I will call my other vet and request the ACTH specifically.

In the interim, I will get more senior feed into her and see what kind of results I get from that. I’m off to research PPID more indepth now, just so I know exactly what kind of questions I need to ask, to ensure my girl gets the right care.

Thank you!

[JB]

You can’t diagnose Cushing’s with normal bloodwork. It has to be the ACTH test (or the dex suppression test, but don’t do that).

[StarPattern]

Thank you! I will definitely get the ACTH test done. It will have to be next month when I’m back from some travel, but I will report back with the results when I have them.