feeding question -- overweight mare, foal needs weight

[ElementFarm]

Mare is an airfern, has always been an easy keeper. When she was pregnant, we increased her rations/stopped riding and she got pretty fat. I didn’t want to put her on diet when she was about to foal, and figured foaling/nursing would take a lot of the weight off her. It didn’t. Her filly had a rough start and is definitely on the thinner side. She’s still nursing regularly (mom has plenty of milk) and mom lets her share grain and hay with no aggression. But the bottom line is mom is still overweight and I’m torn about what to do. Do I wait till weaning (Oct) and let her stay fat for now so foal has access to hay/grain? Or is there a safe/low stress way to give filly more food without the mare getting it?

right now, they get 1 scoop TC Sr 2x day, and turnout on grazed-over grass paddock overnight.

[Laurierace]

Foal should not be eating her grain anyway unless she is over four months. They all nibble at it a bit but they can not digest it properly. If the foal needs supplementation depending upon her age I would either feed milk pellets or Foal’s First. Build a creep feeder or put a board across a corner of the stall or paddock that the foal can get under but the mare cannot.

[ElementFarm]

The filly is 4 months old this week.
How large a serving of milk pellets or Foal’s First should I feed her?
Are those likely to be available at my local feed store?

[JB]

The bag of Foal’s First (excellent starter feed, assuming you’re talking about Progressive) has feeding rates which, IIRC, are based on the foal’s age and expected mature weight. I’m pretty sure Hurdle Mills Feed Mill carries this - not exactly totally local to you, but sometimes feed stores will swap feeds.

If you have Buckeye available, I’m pretty sure they have one but I don’t remember what it’s called.

[JB]

And no, I would not wean the foal at 4 months in order to get weight off the mare. She also does not need to be on any regular feed. Swap her to Triple Crown 30% diet/ration balancer at the rate for her desired weight - 2-3lb most likely. That’s fewer calories than what you’re feeding now, and more nutrition.

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=Laurierace;8785428]
Foal should not be eating her grain anyway unless she is over four months. They all nibble at it a bit but they can not digest it properly. If the foal needs supplementation depending upon her age I would either feed milk pellets or Foal’s First. Build a creep feeder or put a board across a corner of the stall or paddock that the foal can get under but the mare cannot.[/QUOTE]

I hear what you are saying. But it is a bit subjective. Not to be repetitive but I have bred, foaled and raised lots of TBs. I have never restricted any from getting into their momma’s feed bucket. I have never found that any develop much interest until about 3-4 months anyway. They get their own feed bucket next to momma when they tell me. Which is usually 3 1/2 to 4 months.

Have been doing this for years as have every TB breeder I know. Have never had any foals with issues because of it. I know plenty of repro vets that work the TB commercial breeding farms that feel no differently.

When using creep feeders many years ago I found and so have others that even though the mares can’t get their head in they still try like mad and push off the foal. The “board” can and does work but it better be well made. Mares can be pretty persistent. I’ve seen them figure out how to break through.

Too each their own on this, just saying.

As to over weight mares, I have found this to be pretty subjective. I much rather have a mare on the chubby side of things than the thin when weaning times comes around. Depending on the mare they can get pretty stressed, worked up and “walk off” the extra weight in no time. Don’t much like going into winter with a thin mare, preggo or not.

Again to each their own on this also. The above is based on my experience over a number of years in my neck of the woods with lots of TB mares.

[JB]

It’s not that foals have an issue with nibbling mom’s grain/feed, it’s that they don’t get real value from it, as they can’t really digest a lot of what’s in many of these feeds until they are 3-4 months old. No harm, just not a lot of benefit. TC Sr is one of the better ones for a foal to be eating though in terms of benefits. But adult feeds shouldn’t be used to supplement the mare’s milk for a thinner foal - use a milk-based pellet if they are under the 4 month mark, then a ration balancer can be used, and most don’t need more calories than appropriate amounts of RBs provide.

My foal was all over his dam’s food within a few weeks, trying to get in it an eat, once he discovered how good TC Growth tasted. By 2 months I was having to raise the mare’s bucket quite high, and by 3 months I was having to stand guard while she ate, as she’d let him right in and take what he wanted. By 5 months or so I started separating them for feeding as I was tired of that LOL

[GraceLikeRain]

Can the mare wear a grazing muzzle and swap over to a ration balancer?

[gumtree]

[QUOTE=GraceLikeRain;8786913]
Can the mare wear a grazing muzzle and swap over to a ration balancer?[/QUOTE]

“It’s not that foals have an issue with nibbling mom’s grain/feed, it’s that they don’t get real value from it, as they can’t really digest a lot of what’s in many of these feeds until they are 3-4 months old. No harm, just not a lot of benefit”

I guess mine didn’t read the book. They all do just fine eating the same feed as their mommas. Even the ones that are a bit thin and lacking in over all quality compared to some of the others. Especially when they start getting their own bucket. I used to raise a lot more than just 1 or 2 a season to judge by. I am sure there are exceptions.

When I use the word “issues” it can cover a lot of bases depending on the context it is used. In this case digestive, over health, growth, weight gain etc.

I have not found one’s feed program is the major contributing factor to horses developing OCDs. Which seems to be one school of thought and often referred to. We “survey”, x-ray all of our horses as short yearlings. Only have the odd one from time to time with an OCD that should, needs to be addressed.

The above is based on my experience breeding and raising a fair amount of TBs only.

[Laurierace]

It is usually the other way around so I don’t think experience is relevant since I doubt many of us have ever dealt with a mare that had a four month old foal at foot yet was significantly overweight. I work my butt off to keep those ribs covered on my mares at this stage. The foals are usually tick fat or close to it and mama is right on the edge of ribby. Never once had a fat mare and skinny foal at 4 months. Truthfully if I had a ribby four month old foal I would treat with gastrogard just in case because that is just weird.

[JB]

@gumtree;8787349

“It’s not that foals have an issue with nibbling mom’s grain/feed, it’s that they don’t get real value from it, as they can’t really digest a lot of what’s in many of these feeds until they are 3-4 months old. No harm, just not a lot of benefit”

I guess mine didn’t read the book. They all do just fine eating the same feed as their mommas. Even the ones that are a bit thin and lacking in over all quality compared to some of the others. Especially when they start getting their own bucket. I used to raise a lot more than just 1 or 2 a season to judge by. I am sure there are exceptions.

I’m not talking about a specific feed, just in general and “many of these feeds” that contain actual grains, which just can’t be digested by foals younger than about 4 months. If you’re feeding a feed that contains little to no grains, that’s a different story, as there is more benefit to be gained. But so many people feed some of these “mare and foal” feeds that are loaded with grains, not to mention sugars.

Foals can’t even digest forages until about 2 months. Until about 4 months they digest milk-based products best. That’s just how it works. That doesn’t mean no benefit can be had from an adult feed, but it’s much most cost-efficient, from a calorie and nutrient perspective, to feed a milk-based feed to that point, then they can switch over. That’s all I’m saying.