Feeding the Easy Keeper

[kiwihill3000]

I have a 14/15 yo Morgan cross gelding. He’s always been an easy keeper. It wasn’t a huge problem at his previous barn. He was out 24/7 with a run-in and moved about a lot from what I could tell. He got pretty much free-choice hay (timothy based, locally grown- CT), and got a couple handfuls of alfalfa pellets 2x/day to get his supplements in (a vitamin E one, some ground flax, and a joint one). Honestly, I don’t remember specifics and didn’t have too much control over his diet. He was a pretty good weight. I’d say 5.5 BCS.
Now, we have moved to a show barn, which I’m managing, and I now have full control over what he eats and how much! And he’s gotten well… a wee bit CHUNKY. He went from the 24/7 turnout situation to being stalled a lot of the time, and the environment at this barn is much different, so it was a hard move for him, especially because he’s naturally a little bit on the anxious side. So, I worry about ulcers, and don’t want to restrict his hay, which is where all his calories are. (he got UlcerGuard starting a day before the move, and got some for a week following, decreasing amounts over the course of the week) I do want to make sure he’s getting appropriate nutrition. Unfortunately, I’m not able to test his hay whiiiich of course is unhelpful in determining where he might be nutritionally lacking. It comes in batches from different places, but most of it comes from upstate NY. I feel like I’m pretty competent at nutrition basics, however I’m certainly no nutrition guru and would love input from the COTH hive mind on how to restrict those calories and balance his diet a bit better (sorry for the lack of hay info…). He’s gained a concerning amount of weight in the past few months (mostly behind the shoulder and barrel… not your typical PPID spots that I’ve seen) and he’s taking a long time to recover from exercise (breathing hard). Here’s his current management info:

• Turnout in a small group 8am-11:30pm 6 days/wk weather permitting. Grass, but short and poor quality. Doubt he’s even getting much.
• Ridden 5/wk. 1 hardish jumping lesson, 2-3 moderate-easy flat days, 1-2 super easy hacks. He has a history of some lameness concerns (currently managed) so I don’t necessarily want to tweak this.
• 7am- fed 1 flake hay (timothy based, upstate NY). Fed a handful of Nutrena SafeChoice Performance (it’s the main grain that the barn owner feeds)
• 10:30am- fed 2 flakes hay
• 12:00pm- fed a handful of Nutrena SafeChoice Performance, 1 scp Elevate Selenium (1 mg Se, 1500 IU E), MSM (10,000 mg), a sprinkle of loose salt, 1/4 c Platinum Performance (is this even enough to matter? It’s how much barn owner feeds.)
• 4:00pm- fed 2-3 flakes hay

This barn also feeds Nutrena ProForce Senior, timothy pellets (an option…?), soaked alfalfa cubes to the ancient, and one horse gets Purina Enrich (an option…?)
Thanks in advance, would love any and all input in how to better manage this guy in his new environment!

[joiedevie99]

Two quick thoughts: Purina Enrich would be a much better choice grain wise. You aren’t feeding enough of the SafeChoice for him to be getting any meaningful nutrition from it. Have you considering putting the hay in a small hole haynet so it takes him longer to get through his serving?

[luvmyhackney]

He’s not getting his nutritional needs met with a handful of grain. Do you know how much hay he is getting by weight? Flakes can be random in size. When is the last time he was wormed?

I would switch to a vitamin/mineral supplement, add a muzzle anytime on grass, and talk to my vet about about Thyro-L to help get some of the weight off before he founders and run a full panel blood test including cushings and thyroid. worse case on bloodwork is to get a good baseline. Is his hay in a slow feeder hay net or loose? Double bag it in slow feed hay nets if not already. Any way to add extra walking sessions a couple days a week? Get a good marching walk going, doesn’t have to be under saddle either. It does wonders for fitness. Its ok for fatties to work 2x a day.

[walkinthewalk]

He is part Morgan. He is early teens. A BCS of 5.5 is not a good thing.

He is a prime candidate for Insulin Resistance and laminitis.

The grass you say is short and poor quality, might look that way to your eye but, what many people don’t realize, the shorter the grass the more dangerous in terms of fructans. It’s not what he should be eating.

Agree with the above posters that he is not getting any nutritional benefit from a “handful” of feed.

Not only does his feed need measured, his hay needs weighed and it would be great if the hay was a steady enough source to send it out for testing.

Except for his joint supplements, I would cut everything and I mean everything out of his feed pan and start over.

Either find a ration balancer that uses alfalfa (instead of soy) as the protein source, has ZERO added iron, has the three essential amino acids and feed him that or buy a condensed vitamin/mineral supplement that is soy-free with zero added iron, and mix everything into timothy pellets with a bit of water so he can’t eat around what he doesn’t want:)

I am sorry but, Morgan’s and crosses are right up there on “predisposed to metabolic issues” list — you need to get control of his diet “yesterday” and get some weight off him.

You can do it without riding him - I know because I pulled 100+ pounds off my Tennessee Walker, when he foundered in 2012, without riding him because I haven’t been able to ride for quite a few years. He has been in IR remission since 2015, is able to go to pasture every day for several hours without a muzzle because I have his hay tested and I have figured out how to skin back his bad fat calorie intake (non structural carbohydrates) in his feed pan.

The plain truth is your horse is being fed all wrong and is headed for trouble if you don’t get some weight off (get him to a BCS of four), and get him metabolically ready for Spring.

Also FWIW, there is such a thing as “cold weather laminitis” so he may not be safe until spring if he keeps eating the way he is. There are credible articles on winter laminitis, you can google:).

[JB]

5.5 is ok for even an IR horse. He just can’t get heavier.

He does not need to be a BCS 4 either. I’m curious where that idea comes from?

I wouldn’t even do a balancer for him, I would be extra conservative and remove soy from his diet. A cup or 2 of hay pellets, soaked (beet pulp would be even better, more volume fewer calories) and a good forage balancer like Arizona Copper Complete and call it a day. I don’t remember offhand the Vit E content of AZCC so unless it’s providing close to 2IU/lb, I’d add some. I’d also add some flax or other source of Omega 3 while on just hay. Drop the PP.

What was the lameness issue from?

Weigh his hay. 2% max of his ideal body weight. Net it if necessary. Flakes don’t tell you weight.

@walkinthewalk

has the three essential amino acids

there are 10 essential AAs. By this I assume you mean the 3 most likely to be low in a typical forage diet?

[candyappy]

If he has access to any grass at all ( even if it is brown) I would cut out the 10:30 am feeding and drop the amount fed in the evening and put it in a slow feeder ( you can always increase it). He is out for a long time 8 am-11:30 pm and has access to grass and is probably eating more of it than you think.

My own horses are out 24/7 now and the grass( despite many hard freezes overnight) is still enough that they are hardly eating hay and are still holding weight really well. A ration balancer would help round out his needs better.

These easy keepers can be quite a challenge.

[walkinthewalk]

1. The new quoting system and I don’t get along, and there are a few other “things” I don’t like about this new software, which is why I have been avoiding commenting on threads, but:

@JB to answer your BCS four question - I based my answer on my horse as suggested by the lameness vet and the holistic vet/chiro, both according to the Henneke scale.

Henneke-Scoring-Chart.pdf

2. The three essential amino acids I am referring to are those that are most often deficient in forage —- lysine, methionine and threonine.

[JB]

@walkinthewalk

I based my answer on my horse as suggested by the lameness vet and the holistic vet/chiro,

What lameness/holistic vets are these?

[kiwihill3000]

@luvmyhackney

When is the last time he was wormed?

He just had a fecal done with a count of zero. He was last dewormed before he moved barns and tbh I don’t know what they used.

@luvmyhackney

run a full panel blood test including cushings and thyroid. worse case on bloodwork is to get a good baseline

This is a good idea, I will add this to the next vet visit.

@walkinthewalk

He is part Morgan. He is early teens. A BCS of 5.5 is not a good thing.

He is a prime candidate for Insulin Resistance and laminitis.

Truth. Darn Morgan metabolic genetics. However (and I know this may not mean much), but he does not have the fat deposits you’d see in your typical IR or cushinoid horse. No cresty neck, no fat deposits around the tailhead, etc. He’s just a bit round about the middle. I will talk to the vet about IR next visit, but in the barn full of plump show hunters, I’ve been told he’s looking great. However for him, he should lose some pounds.

Regarding grass, yeah. I know that stressed grass is high sugar grass, especially a concern at this time of the year. However, him and his pasture mates tend to spend a fair amount playing and hanging about and snoozing rather than grazing (and I’m spending my time working going in and out of the barn so I do keep an eye on them all), so I really don’t think he actually eats much out there, even though what he does eat may be higher NSC than ideal.

@walkinthewalk

The plain truth is your horse is being fed all wrong and is headed for trouble if you don’t get some weight off (get him to a BCS of four), and get him metabolically ready for Spring.

Mmmmm. I’m aware of the dangers of overweight horses, which is why I’m asking the collective COTH hive mind for any tips and tricks. I would like to add that many horses are managed on forage only diets, with appropriate vitamin and mineral supplementation and flourish. For clarification to all… the handful of grain was never meant to be for any nutritional needs, purely as an easy vehicle to get his supplements into him and make him happy when everyone is getting their grain in the stalls surrounding him. Being the grain that this barn feeds mainly, it’s what he’s gotten, and due to the very small amount, I wasn’t super concerned with it. Despite his breed, this is NOT a situation where the horse is morbidly obese and/or about to founder. I’m familiar with those types. He just has a bit of extra weight around his middle, and I will be adding appropriate bloodwork to ensure that there’s no underlying thyroid/cushings issues. My goal will be a BCS of 5. Honestly, him at a 4 wouldn’t look too hot. He’s got the Friesian (his other half) bone structure for sure.

@JB Thank you for your recommendations. He’s pudgier than ideal, which is why I’d like to reassess, but I really don’t think we’re near the danger danger he’s about to founder type of situation. I have timothy pellets readily available at this barn, so I could do a cup or two of that quite easily to replace his handful of grain. I will also look into the forage balancer. I’m not opposed to feeding him something different than currently at the barn, it would just be much easier if it was possible! I am not currently able to weigh the hay unfortunately (I know it’s not ideal). I will see what I can do about talking to the B.O. about a scale, however BO is pretty set in her ways and it’s not particularly up to me soooo we shall see. I try to compensate for this by adding or subtracting hay based on how heavy the flakes feel however I’m aware that that is not terribly accurate!

[JB]

@kiwihill3000

I am not currently able to weigh the hay

If you have a bathroom scale, take that out. If these are small square bales, and you can lift one, weigh yourself, then weigh 5-10 different bales to get an average weight. Then see how many flakes on average a bale has, which might take you a day or 2 as you go through bales (no idea how many bales you break open a day). That will give you an average flake weight

[kiwihill3000]

Thanks for the tip! That makes it feel a lot simpler, and I’m sure I could do that.

[joiedevie99]

As someone who has used the bathroom scale trick many times - sometimes its easier to weight yourself, then pick up 4-5 flakes and weigh yourself holding the hay - then subtract. If you do this as you feed the barn, you’ll get a pretty good average flake weight. Bathroom scales can be pretty tricky to balance a whole bale on and still see the screen. And some of mine have been less accurate than others in the sub 50 lb. range.

[S1969]

@kiwihill3000

Thanks for the tip! That makes it feel a lot simpler, and I’m sure I could do that.

Another easy way is to buy a fish weighing scale and put a flake of hay in a plastic bag or hay net…subtract the weight of the empty hay net if you can. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07PBD7NP8/digital-fish-scale?gclid=Cj0KCQiA5bz-BRD-ARIsABjT4ng03_fB-pYLmjOUhhCPnIwtf8CosYlUldO29owg-Op6wI9HvU6ReqgaAvVWEALw_wcB

Really I would start there. There isn’t a lot you can do about the grass situation but muzzle. If you find, however, that you’re feeding 3% of his ideal weight in hay - there’s your answer.

[Cali98farm]

ration balancer

[Rosewatt]

I feed my IR prone horse a powder vitamin/mineral supplement from Horsetech. They do custom supplements, but I’ve also used their high point grass formula before. I feed this with a handful of soaked timothy/alfalfa cubes, and I also would add a amino acid supplement. My horse did better with the extra amino acid source. This is the ONLY feed that would work to maintain his weight. Previously I had tried ration balancers, low carb grain etc. He was plump on all of them.

I also understand the constraints of boarding, since I also had them. I never did weigh hay, but there were some barns that just did not work for us, so we have had to move and I am more careful about where he is boarded. Some BO just don’t understand that an easy keeper can face just as many health dangers as a hard keeper.

Also, an IR horse doesn’t have to be showing fat deposits. Mine did not for several years, but was always fat off air. It was difficult to keep the weight off him. He still had mild laminitis episodes at that weight, particularly after indulging on grass. However, fat pads did start to appear after a time at a new barn. WIthout getting into specifics, I came to find out the BO was feeding him WAY more than he should have been getting.

[lenapesadie]

@candyappy

He is out for a long time 8 am-11:30 pm

I saw that in the OP as well and it really doesn’t make sense with the rest of the post. I think the author meant 11:30 AM. I’m going to keep reading. Maybe OP clarified further down

[kiwihill3000]

Sorry I meant 8am-11:30AM. Oops!

[Amym600]

I would remove Platinum Performance for sure and use a vitamin mineral option instead. I don’t think he needs that dense of a calorie option. It has rice bran, Flax, sunflower seed. These are all high fat options. I am no expert and maybe someone can chime in but this seems to be a very calorie dense supplement.

[PaddockWood]

Really appreciate this thread. Have been wrestling with how to get away from soy in a ration balancer . Hay pellets - great idea. I’ve sent my hay to be tested and then will know how to supplement from there with those results. Already giving 4 oz Horse Tech flax and started the Microbiome that Getty sells and 1 TBL salt.

[lorilu]

There is a difference between a balancer and an equalizer… All my horses are easy keepers. My little pony gets a handful of hay pellets and Seminole’s grass balancer, which has vit and minerals but NO other fillers - few if any calories, and the dosage is a small supplement scoop. The two Lusitanos get a small amount of grain and Seminole’s Equilizer. Few calories and all the vit/minerals. So, perhaps look for a grass balancer and give pellets to carry the supplements.