I have a 9yr wb mare hunter in light -moderate work who is overweight …we just did bloodwork and her insulin was high (53), cortisol normal, acth normal…she’s been on 2lbs/day Buckeye Gro N Win which roughly at 1300 kcal/pound is giving her about 2,600 calories …the ECIR group says that the Buckeye Gro N Win isn’t on the safe/approved feed list for IR/EMS/Cushings Horses …Nuzu Stabul One is …thats 1100 kcal/lb however if being fed at the recommended amount with my mare being 1300lbs puts her at needing 6.5lbs/day which is more than double the calories of
the Gro N Win…so my question is what can I feed her to ensure she’s getting adequate nutrition in proper quantities for a performance horse without gaining calories since we want her to lose weight?? Since discovering the bloodwork results we’ve switched her hay to a tested low sugar Timothy , we are reducing her turnout , she’s wearing a grazing muzzle, is on thyro l, and was just switched from Metaboleeze to Insulin Wise, and ive started her on quiessence for magnesium/chromium.
Thanks In Advance
Why does the ECIR group claim (note that I used the word “claim” very deliberately here) that Gro N Win isn’t safe for a metabolic horse? At 13% NSC and a feeding rate of 2 lbs/day, it’s a perfectly reasonable option for a horse like yours. The general rule for metabolic horses is that you want the total diet NSC level to be below about 10% NSC. If you’re feeding a low NSC hay, that’s very easy to do with a product like Gro N Win. A lot of people get confused by this and think that EVERY item you feed the horse has to be under 10% NSC; that is not true - it would be like saying “horses need a diet of 12% crude protein” which completely ignores the most important factor of how MUCH of a particular item the horse is eating.
Now, if you can’t get weight off your mare at 2 lbs/day of Gro N Win, then that’s a different conversation. In that case, a very good mineral supplement might be more appropriate, but that’s more about calories than NSC.
Hope that eases your mind a bit! (Signed, someone with an M.S. in equine nutrition.)
From my understanding …which my head is spinning from all of this is that most commercial bagged feeds or ration balancers despite being labeled for EMS/IR/Cushings have ingriedients in them such as added Iron that apparently isn’t good for these issues as it affects other stuff, as well as being over 10% nsc…also other stuff such as rice bran, molasses , alfalfa etc are things that also can effect these horses.
Ask the people making these claims to provide peer-reviewed research to support that any of these ingredients are “bad” for metabolic horses. (Hint: There isn’t any…)
ECIR is pretty particular about NSC and ingredients.
Added iron isn’t really the big issue - Dr Kellon herself says that if you can raise copper and zinc to get a much tighter ratio, that matters way more than simply “high iron”.
SOME IR horses really need no added iron, and added copper and zinc.
SOME IR horses really can’t handle even 1-2lb of something that is over 10% NSC
SOME IR horses have trouble with added fat
GNW ticks all those boxes, which is why it’s not in their approved list.
Triple Crown 30 is 9.8% NSC but “violates” the other requirements.
That said, I wouldn’t have an overweight horse on a ration balancer anyway, especially 2lb - 26000 calories isn’t terribly insignificant. I would use a small bit of low NSC carrier - beet pulp, grass hay pellets, even alfalfa pellets if they aren’t a problem for her - and a “superman” v/m supplement like High Point Grass, Vermont Blend, U-Balance Foundation, maybe Arizona Copper complete if you’re in that area, and some others. HPG would likely need additional Nutramino/Tri-Amino for the amino acids. None of those have added iron.
I’ve been looking into those …here’s my question:…will I need to supplement vitamins such as A,D,E,C and B-1?? And any omegas?? This is the difference in ingriedients between what she was on Buckeye Gro N Win Vs the Vermont Blend …it also contained 31%protein?? It looks like to me the Vermont Blend is just covering minerals and amino acids? that was what I considered the nice part of a ration balancer is that it covered all the nutritional needs …I want them to maintain their beautiful toplines , get proper nutrition without excess calories so they can lose weight if that makes sense …sorry if this is redundant …my head is spinning and I’m a bit overwhelmed as I have another wb mare who I mentioned in my other posts who just developed acute laminitis triggered by steroids …so she is the first one I’m doing all this diet change for …as well as my other wb mare who also needs the same changes
Thanks in advance
Horses make their own C and B1, and don’t typically need D supplementation. E is all about how much fresh grass there is. A is too. Omega 3 is about fresh grass.
If she only gets hay, I would aim for 2IU/lb Vit E and I have no idea if the GNW was providing that
If she all or mostly hay, I would be adding flax, or some form of Omega 3
…it also contained 31%protein?? It looks like to me the Vermont Blend is just covering minerals and amino acids? that was what I considered the nice part of a ration balancer is that it covered all the nutritional needs …
What’s the protein content of your hay? I’ve seen a lot of Teff that has plenty of protein to exceed protein needs, and a few analyses where it didn’t
I want them to maintain their beautiful toplines , get proper nutrition without excess calories so they can lose weight if that makes sense …sorry if this is redundant …
Yep, that is the real challenge with easy keepers.
.my head is spinning and I’m a bit overwhelmed as I have another wb mare who I mentioned in my other posts who just developed acute laminitis triggered by steroids …so she is the first one I’m doing all this diet change for …as well as my other wb mare who also needs the same changes
Thanks in advance
I’m sorry about the steroid laminitis! I would definitely treat her as IR for now (or Cushing’s if she’s of that age)
Have you contacted an equine nutritionist yet? A lot of people recommend the Feed Room Nutrition or Summit Nutrition. There are a couple out there, but it’s hard to make specific recommendations without knowing your horse’s full story.
I would say that we don’t need the full story to suggest that Claire Thunes at Summit Equine Nutrition is fully capable of taking on the case 
I’m sure there are others too, I just don’t know anything about Feed Room Nutrition so can’t speak to their expertise.
But I agree - a really good nutritionist will do a great job with metabolic issues, at least as good as the input they have.
I’d cut the grain out and go with something like (a small amount of) unmolassed beet pulp with a vit/min dressing recommended by either your vet or a nutritionist. Here in the UK I can get my forage and stuff analyzed by a company called ForagePlus (who btw, have some cool educational things on their website), and I balance to that. Not sure if there is a similar thing available in the US. Anything with grain, wheat, soy… chuck it out. Try to keep it to forage and a balancer. There’s a lot of junk/filler in pelleted feeds. If you need protein, I like alfalfa but the potassium in it can set off some metabolic types.
But just like a person who is giving themselves insulin resistance / diabetes… you need to cut the empty calories out of her diet and work on getting the weight off. I’ve seen some working barefoot horses eat absolute monster meals full of sugar, but they literally are working hours a day, which is a completely different lifestyle from a typical hunter jumper who may work an hour a day, and then sit in a stable like a couch potato as much as the other 23 hrs a day. Turning her out with a buddy will get her to move more on her own, maybe a walker or treadmill can help as well.
Two forage-based feeds that the ECIR group recommends are Triple Crown Balanced Timothy Cubes and Triple Crown Safe Starch Forage. The Cubes are made from timothy that has been tested to ensure that it is low sugar/starch and then added minerals to balance that particular hay. The Forage is chopped orchard grass/timothy. Also tested for low sugar/starch and has added minerals, but to my knowledge it is not balanced like the Cubes. The Forage is 6% fat with vegetable oil as the third ingredient. So, maybe the Cubes are a better bet.
From my experience, grass consumption during turnout has the biggest impact on weight and insulin for IR horses. Then again, I only feed low sugar/starch forage and hay so grass is their only source of high sugar feed.
Crude Protein is 10 /available protein 9.2. Both of these mares were getting Elevate Vitamin E …however I stopped giving that to the one with acute laminitis as someone from ECIR said it contains dextrose and she shouldn’t have that …the one with laminitis is on 30 days stall rest so she is only getting my tested low sugar Timothy plus small amount balance cubes …she previously was on overnight turnout on pasture …same with my other mare. Vet said we should treat both mares as if they are IR as both if their insulin’s came back high (63 for the laminitis mare, and 53 for my other)…I stopped the Gro N Win on the laminitis mare and am only giving small amount balance cubes …the other is still getting the Gro N Win as I haven’t figured out what the best meal plan for her should be yet …
Whoa!!! My head is spinning too!!! Every horse is different–so take as you need to. I had an IR/Cushings warmblood. All of these supplements would have been way OVER Supplementing him. The Thyro L is used a lot to get their metabolism going. My vet said most horses do not get true Thyroid problems. I don’t know Insulin Wise, but Metaboleeze worked well for me. The thing that worked best however, was Triple Crown Lite (not the Low Starch product, Lite is actually less NSC. TC also makes a great ration balancer with no sugar in it). Lite was just 9% NSC and, in three hay feedings per day, we switched him to alfalfa at lunch. Some people don’t like alfalfa, I get it. But that’s what worked for m. If you’ve got your horse on a low sugar hay, and use a 10% NSC or lower, you will be doing wonders for your horse in my opinion. Don’t let the craziness in the online groups get you going in too many directions. Keep it simple, keep your horse in work. I even let mine graze a couple days a week, because he loved it so, and mental health is also important. Work, and low sugar should do the trick, in my opinion. Also, check your Metaboleeze ingredients. Magnesium Oxide is not absorbed well. There’s a company out of Petaluma, CA, that offers a Magnesium product with chelated Magnesium–Performance Equine I think is their name. Good luck to you.
These mares were not being fed grain…they were just being fed a ration balancer Buckeye Gro N Win 2lbs/day , and orchard grass hay when stalled(now switched to tested low sugar Timothy )…they were turned out together overnightmuzzled in a big 5 acre pasture, and were just put back into light-moderate exercise 6 wks ago.
Since one is going through acute laminitis triggered by steroids and is IR and needs to lose weight they have been getting small amount Ontario Dehy Timothy Balance cubes as the carrier …now looking for the best replacement for the GNW …I’ve narrowed it down to either Vermont Blend, California Trace Plus Uckele U Balance Foundation or Mad Barn Trace Amino +
Ladipus, I’ve really had success with the Mad Barn Amino Trace +. Not the most tasty (high copper, they are all not very yummy) but they will eat it. I put it on a carrier on the natural balance cubes, with human vitamin E gels tossed in for vitamin E (no additives in the gel caps and the horses eat it with no complaints). To increase shine, flax or chia seeds (about 1/2 cup per horse). Simple, economical and they look great. No additional ration balances or ‘grain’ type foods required as the Amino Trace is formulated as a relatively complete vitamin and mineral supplement. I have used Arizona Copper Complete in the past (HorseTech) but Mad Barn is easier to pick up in my neck of the woods.
From what I recall (years ago), Dr. Kellon will do nutritional analysis for you on the side, as well as offers courses. Given that she is a veterinarian who has studied this specific topic for years, it may be worth investigating whether she still does this at an affordable rate. Have her confirm the feeding plan so you can be confident you are doing the right thing. Especially if they will be on it long term, I’d probably want the peace of mind.
My fat easy keeper came to me very obese. I said she was lucky she didn’t get laminitis- she was turned out on a huge pasture full of very tall grass and she is the type of horse that continually stuffs her face.
She has been perpetually on a diet since I got her.
For feed, she gets 1-2lbs of alfalfa pellets soaked, with a vitamin mineral supplement on top. A small scoop of flaxseed. My vet recommended psyllium for her- if fed daily it can help manage their weight and insulin levels. The alfalfa covers her protein requirements, the vitamin mineral covers copper, zinc, selenium and Vit. E. There’s no iron in the supplement so that is good.
You do not want a feed with added fat. You do not want to feed beet pulp. Beet pulp is a high energy feed and that is why senior horses do well on it. Beet pulp is low in vitamins, minerals, and protein - empty calories.
Grostrong vitamin mineral supplement is what I use. I don’t think what you are feeding is that bad.
Beet pulp makes an awesome carrier for so many things. A cup or 3, then well-soaked, is a relatively large volume, and hides things well between that and its taste. And for the shreds, 1c is a bit over 100 calories (roughly 9c/lb, roughly 1000 cal/lb)
It doesn’t have to be high in nutrients to be useful, but neither is it empty calories. It’s quite high in calcium, just not quite as high as alfalfa typically is, and it’s protein is on par with average grass hays. It has quite a few other nutrients as well. Beet pulp makes an awesome carrier for so many things. A cup or 3, then well-soaked, is a relatively large volume, and hides things well between that and its taste.
It doesn’t have to be high in nutrients to be useful, but neither is it empty calories. It’s quite high in calcium, just not quite as high as alfalfa typically is, and it’s protein is on par with average grass hays. It has quite a few other nutrients as well.
