I have a colt for sale that was born in 2011. He was fed Triple Crown Complete and on a good quality Coastal hay since weaning. I have a lady that is interested in purchasing him and the x-rays came back with a divit in the right hind stifle joint (I was told start of OCD). I have a few foals that will be weaned this fall. I would like to try a new feeding plan to see if I can at all avoid OCD.
I called Platinum Performance and was told to feed CJ and Osteon to the youngsters. They also told me if possible to stay away from processed grains and feed more beet pulp and rice bran. I would like to hear from other WB breeders what they feed their weanlings. From my understanding, you can free feed forage, but at what age do they really start to digest the hay/alfalfa? Is the diet primarily based off the grains that you feed rather than the forages when they are weanlings?
I am new into the WB breeding and have a 2012 colt. We feed him Triple Crown Growth. the protein content is slightly lower than the Complete (too much protein is said to lead to OCD) and has more beet pulp. This was recommended by our vet and a dietician after testing our hay and grass. The colt prefers eating hay over his grain. if he has his choice, he munches on the hay and leaves his grain.
He will be weaned in 2 weeks and will get slightly more grain, but still the TC Growth.
[QUOTE=HorsesforFun;6541046]
I have a colt for sale that was born in 2011. He was fed Triple Crown Complete and on a good quality Coastal hay since weaning. I have a lady that is interested in purchasing him and the x-rays came back with a divit in the right hind stifle joint (I was told start of OCD). I have a few foals that will be weaned this fall. I would like to try a new feeding plan to see if I can at all avoid OCD.
I called Platinum Performance and was told to feed CJ and Osteon to the youngsters. They also told me if possible to stay away from processed grains and feed more beet pulp and rice bran. I would like to hear from other WB breeders what they feed their weanlings. From my understanding, you can free feed forage, but at what age do they really start to digest the hay/alfalfa? Is the diet primarily based off the grains that you feed rather than the forages when they are weanlings?
TIA[/QUOTE]
In my opinion the diet is always based off of the forage, and then concentrate feed added as needed.
I feed Purina Enrich 32, but have used Buckeye Grow N Win in the past. They always have access to free-choice minerals and free-choice orchard grass hay. Knock on wood I’ve never had an OCD problem. I have had some foals develop mild physitis, pre-weaning (usually seems to be in my heavily milking mares) and I do use Rejuvenaide on those foals, with great results.
I wanted to add that high levels of protein have NOT been shown to lead to OCD. Recent research has disproven that old idea.
Boy, it doesn’t come much more processed than beet pulp and rice bran but that is semantics I guess. There is no definite answer to your question as we simply don’t know. I believe minerals play a big part so that is where I concentrate my efforts.
I have to agree with the diet being based off of the forage, and then concentrate feed added as required. The concentrate should “balance” whatever is deficient in the hay.
Sadly, many people still believe that high protein is the problem but like Hillside mentioned, this has been proven to not be the case. Balance is key. Access to free choice minerals is also important. Also, keep in mind that OCD is not just related to diet… feeding the mare properly during gestation is very important and once the foal is born and deemed healthy, full access to turnout is really important too.
Totally inaccurate. No studies back this up. This drives me nuts. ANY animal that is growing or lactating need high protein. That is because it is protein (and the AA lysine to help process that protein) is the engine that lays down tissue & bone. When you think “Growth”, think “Protein.” When you think “Energy”, think “Carbs” (that’s simplistic, but fairly accurate).
No one has all the answers yet, but to the best of my knowledge the most comprehensive study on OCD in foals was done in Germany over the course of several years. If you go to the AHS site they have a link to it.
If there has been an equally comprehensive study done elsewhere, I am not aware of it.
They found the strongest component was overfeeding while limiting turn-out. Second was genetics. Protein was NOT a factor.
I try to offer the mare/foal protein via good quality alfalfa, but sometimes if I have only one pair per year this is difficult.
I’m experimenting with Enrich 32 this year, because I can feed it in feed bags :winkgrin: but it’s for a yearling and a 7 yr old.
Otherwise I feed the best grass hay (mostly timothy & orchard grass) I can get, and weanlings get BP, oats & some rather dry enriched SF that Purina makes for this area. Plus a multi-vit.
They are used to this mixture from picking at their dam’s feed and do well with it. Later on in the winter I might add some oil (canola).
As far as digesting stuff goes: foals can digest PROTEIN from DAY 1; milk is mostly sugar, protein & fat (I think mare’s milk is rather high fat, but I’ve never read an analysis). It’s forage they can’t digest until they are 60-90 days old, when their hindgut is fully functional ( I welcome corrections on my info – this all being quoted from memory…)
Read the thread on the Raising of Stallion Prospects on this forum…they don’t mention what’s in the “pellets” they feed, but it would be interesting to find out…
A couple of years ago I read a nutrition article in Horse sport magazine that tried to compile the most recent research on preventing OCD’s in weanlings.
Essentially, the goal was to strive for an even rate of growth with sufficient nutrition to allow for proper mineralization and bone development.
A few things that I can remember off the top of my head:
a) controlling starch intake
b) correctly balanced minerals in the right amount
c) creep feeding before weaning. The rationale for this was that foals that are not creep fed may not take in enough nutrition after weaning and the result is that their growth slows down but then they have a growth spurt once they are accustomed to adult food.
There are also factors that you can’t control, like trauma, but as far as nutrition was concerned, the point was sufficient and balanced mineral intake, not too much starch, sufficient protein and trying to maintain an even rate of growth, not too fast and not uneven growth rate.
Wish I could find the article on line but I dont’ think the magazine has an online archive.
fwiw, I have also fed MSM to weanlings to age 4 to prevent inflammation but I’m sure lots would say I am wasting my money
I have been obsessive with research the past few weeks for “baby” nutrition- it is amazing how much conflicted information I found from credible sources. Mine live out in a herd 24-7, so exercise is constant. I came to a few conclusions (with some discussions with my baby vet).
Forage based! I feed plenty of grass hay and add in small amounts of alfalfa. In Ca, I do not have access to pasture so I feed TDI-10 (a ration balancer), as that is one of the only feeds in the area that I find with a good mineral balance for the babies. This is completely un-scientific and unsubstantiated, but I fed Platinum to my broodmares and platinum cj to my babies this year for the first time ever. This year is the first time I have experienced physitis. I took off the platinum and used only the ortho-chron and saw an improvement. I then added 1/2 oz of pure omega 3 fish oil with the ortho-chron and within days both weanlings were 100%. I tend to think that mineral balance and not protein levels play a role, and was very surprised with how well the Omega 3 fish oil helped.
[QUOTE=HorsesforFun;6541046]
I have a colt for sale that was born in 2011. He was fed Triple Crown Complete and on a good quality Coastal hay since weaning. I have a lady that is interested in purchasing him and the x-rays came back with a divit in the right hind stifle joint (I was told start of OCD). I have a few foals that will be weaned this fall. I would like to try a new feeding plan to see if I can at all avoid OCD.
I called Platinum Performance and was told to feed CJ and Osteon to the youngsters. They also told me if possible to stay away from processed grains and feed more beet pulp and rice bran. I would like to hear from other WB breeders what they feed their weanlings. From my understanding, you can free feed forage, but at what age do they really start to digest the hay/alfalfa? Is the diet primarily based off the grains that you feed rather than the forages when they are weanlings?
TIA[/QUOTE]
This is not feed related - but around here, a few of the better vets have an Adequan protocol for weanlings & yearlings that have OCD. It’s basically the regular series, except continued for longer. They report positive effects doing this (this is non-surgical horses).
[QUOTE=NorCalDressage;6542017]
This is not feed related - but around here, a few of the better vets have an Adequan protocol for weanlings & yearlings that have OCD. It’s basically the regular series, except continued for longer. They report positive effects doing this (this is non-surgical horses).
Just throwing that out there…[/QUOTE]
Yes, the adequan seems to work for small chips (can’t remember the size guideline off the top of my head) in horses under 18 mos-2 yrs. There does not seem to be much success in using Adequan for the treatment of bones cysts, though.
Well I can’t say just how wonderful I think Buckeye Grow-n-Win is. I’ve used it for years with great results. That being said, this year I’ve had an awful time keeping my 19 yr old broodmare in good shape. She has baby #15 nursing her (soon to be weaned) & even with lots of rice bran, senior feed, Platinum Performance, etc., she continued with the weight loss. A holistic vet suggested that maybe I was overdoing it so, I took her off of all the supplements except for a probiotic/digestive enzyme supplement & gradually switched her over to Purina Ultium Growth. I am NOT a purina fan but I have loved the regular Ultium for other horses in the past.
This time I called HP Hanoverians & spoke with someone there about their trial with Ultium Growth. They told me they’ve been feeding it for the past 3-4 years now & have not had any OCD since being on this feed.
I’m still feeding my youngsters Grow-n-Win with a taste of the Ultium Growth but might just switch them all to it.
Oh & my mare is putting on weight! Go figure.
[QUOTE=RanchoAdobe;6541911]
I have been obsessive with research the past few weeks for “baby” nutrition- it is amazing how much conflicted information I found from credible sources. Mine live out in a herd 24-7, so exercise is constant. I came to a few conclusions (with some discussions with my baby vet).
Forage based! I feed plenty of grass hay and add in small amounts of alfalfa. In Ca, I do not have access to pasture so I feed TDI-10 (a ration balancer), as that is one of the only feeds in the area that I find with a good mineral balance for the babies. This is completely un-scientific and unsubstantiated, but I fed Platinum to my broodmares and platinum cj to my babies this year for the first time ever. This year is the first time I have experienced physitis. I took off the platinum and used only the ortho-chron and saw an improvement. I then added 1/2 oz of pure omega 3 fish oil with the ortho-chron and within days both weanlings were 100%. I tend to think that mineral balance and not protein levels play a role, and was very surprised with how well the Omega 3 fish oil helped.[/QUOTE]
Well darn! I was hoping the CJ would have promising results on the weanlings. I wonder why this would of caused physitis?
I was also told by the Platnium representative to feed Osteon.
I looked into the Buckeye Feeds and unfortunately there is not a dealer anywhere near me. I wonder how Ultium growth would be?
Again, each horse may have different needs, but one does not need to feed top of the line commercial feed to get good, balanced nutrition. Not only is it not necessarily any BETTER, but you can bet in most cases it’s going to be more expensive. Feed companies count on this and the big sell is to the PEOPLE.
It seems in Germany they raise WB foals like stock and feed them the same way – for a profit. I think here in America we do tend to raise them by spending as much as we possibly can on everything :winkgrin:…then expect the buyer to willingly absorb that cost.
Personally, I prefer to stay away from horses that are fed too richly as youngsters and/or raised as “hot house flowers.”
I keep going back to those “pellets” the European foal raising station feeds…Any of our German COTHers able to find out if it’s a standard, commercial mix or is it custom mixed?
If you raise enough foals in one year, I would think a custom mix would be the best, most economical way to offer the needed nutrition. I’d love to hear what large breeders of WBs feed their foals – BTW, how many US breeders are there that would fit this bill? Hilltop, Ironwood, Rollingstone…any others?
I’ve only had one case of OCD that I am aware of, and that was in a foal who had had multiple surgeries to correct congenital contractions and ruptured tendons. She was confined to a 10x20 stall except to go to the vet till she was 5mos old.
Other than that, I’ve had nothing…the mature horses I’ve bred are still going sound at least…
This thread is very timely for me as I have a soon-to-be weanling that I’m agonizing over feeding. My question is regarding supplements: I saw Platinum’s Osteon mentioned, how does that compare to OCD pellets? Any other suggestions for a growing foal to possibly prevent ocd?
I agree with Kyzteke - it is not necessary to feed commercial feeds to get excellent results. I am skeptical about what they put in them anyway. If you allow a lot of turnout and do not overfeed you will have the best chances for optimum growth.
I always kept things VERY simple and it has always worked. Our hay (Timothy/Alfalfa) was analyzed every year and the grain and vitamin supplement ration was determined based on the analysis results. Quality hay, some crimped oats and Equilizer (vitamin/mineral balancer). Some oil if necessary. The calcium to phosphorus was always kept properly balanced and “Knock wood” no growth issues and no OCD after several foal crops. Happy healthy youngsters :-).
I agree that keeping it simple is easiest. My babies are all outside 24/7 in run-in sheds, run & play, interact with others, build great bone & muscle & good minds this way. I also always keep great mineral blocks & loose minerals out for them.
If you need to feed a silicon supplement I found one many years ago that is tops. Check out www.evergreenequine.com
There products are just the best. Wonderful stuff & the horses will eat them.
Can’t tell you about Osteon, but I AM a big believer in OCD Pellets. But those are a supplement, not like a ration balancer or such. To feed for the best results, you should start feeding it to the MARE in the third trimester…then continue to feed till the foal is weaned…at that point you start to give it to the weanling.
I will tell you I had a foal born with limb issues on several different fronts. My vet told me he was “90% sure” the foal would need screw & wire surgery & 6 wks of stall rest to “fix” her. My other vet said the foal’s leg’s were “the worst I’ve seen this year…”:eek:
The mare had been started late on the OCD pellets, so I doubled her dose,since the foal was only 2 wks old. I did NOT confine her, but monitored her turn-out like a hawk (I was lucky – I was home alot then).
I had the vet put the painted on, extended toes on her, but refused surgery.
In 2 1/2 mos she was almost completely straight (today she is perfect), and had not been confined in a stall in 3-4 wks.
Not straight science, but a compelling story nonetheless.
However, again – we are not talking about something you feed in any great quanity.
No one has all the answers yet, but to the best of my knowledge the most comprehensive study on OCD in foals was done in Germany over the course of several years. If you go to the AHS site they have a link to it.
If there has been an equally comprehensive study done elsewhere, I am not aware of it.
They found the strongest component was overfeeding while limiting turn-out. Second was genetics. Protein was NOT a factor.
See, I have never read a study that pointed to overfeeding or heavier young horses (with in reason). Lots of speculation about sugars. Actually the heavier foals (in weight) had reduced OCD instances. Fast (height) growth spurts, genetics (which may go back to growth patterns in part), and exercise is what I got out of it.
SURPRISE
The correlations between the growth of the foal, expressed in the development of weight and size, and the occurrence of OCD was surprising. Lighter foals showed significantly more osteochondrosis in the fetlock joints than heavier foals. The weight did not, however, appear to
influence osteochondrosis in the hock joint, but the height did. Taller foals were more often affected in the hock joint. http://www.hanoverian.org/ahs_media/downloads/articles/OCD.pdf
Edited to add: Reducing the rate of height growth with reduced food seems problematic to me. You are in fact stunting the growth by lack of nutrition. This seems more dangerous. Breeding animas for slower growth is a contradiction to the market these days. No one wants a horse that isn’t ready till they are 4 or 5. But that would be a better solution then stunting the growth rate.
[QUOTE=Kyzteke;6547810]
Can’t tell you about Osteon, but I AM a big believer in OCD Pellets. But those are a supplement, not like a ration balancer or such. To feed for the best results, you should start feeding it to the MARE in the third trimester…then continue to feed till the foal is weaned…at that point you start to give it to the weanling.
I will tell you I had a foal born with limb issues on several different fronts. My vet told me he was “90% sure” the foal would need screw & wire surgery & 6 wks of stall rest to “fix” her. My other vet said the foal’s leg’s were “the worst I’ve seen this year…”:eek:
The mare had been started late on the OCD pellets, so I doubled her dose,since the foal was only 2 wks old. I did NOT confine her, but monitored her turn-out like a hawk (I was lucky – I was home alot then).
I had the vet put the painted on, extended toes on her, but refused surgery.
In 2 1/2 mos she was almost completely straight (today she is perfect), and had not been confined in a stall in 3-4 wks.
Not straight science, but a compelling story nonetheless.
However, again – we are not talking about something you feed in any great quanity.[/QUOTE]
That is a nice story and I am glad your filly is ok now but has nothing to do with OCD. Hopefully that doesn’t show up later.
