Feeding time manners

[KBC]

I was catching up with my barn owner about everything that went on while I was away on vacation, one of the issues she mentioned was my boys manners at feed time.

I was kind of surprised because I have always made sure he backs off from me while I either hang his bucket, or dump it into a manger in front of him, he’s never been allowed to eat until I say. Her issue though was the faces he pulls, he has always reverted to ears back, snakey look, and I have allowed him to express his opinion, but at a distance. She thinks this is disrespectful, and has been making him be less grouchy.

I thought I would try and see what happened, walked into his stall, he stands back, looking mean. I wait telling him I need “pretty ears” the ears come up, I walk forward, snakey face comes back I stop and wait for pretty ears, then walk forward again. Only took 3 attempts to get him ears forward while I dumped the food.

Question is is it disrespectful for a horse to look mean, as long as he’s giving you your space, do you allow, or correct.

[PNWSunnyDay]

@KBC

Question is is it disrespectful for a horse to look mean,

That’s an interesting question. I, like you, have previously trained the cranky feedees to give me my space and be safe with their bodies without caring about the cranky face.

Now your BO has me thinking. A mammal’s body posture can influence it’s mood and behavior so I wonder if training the ‘happy ears’ can really help change the cranky disposition. Humans can help alter their mood and confidence with the superman pose. Timid dogs are sometimes taught confidence with the help of a human holding their tail out from between their legs for brief training periods.

It will be interesting if you see a disposition shift in your horse.

[Alter331]

I always require them to back up and wait. They are not released unless they have their ears up. To me, it is like letting a dog growl at you when you go near their food or toy. They may not be biting you (this time), but they are not letting go of their aggression.

[Texarkana]

I have this homebred mare who turned into the devil incarnate at our last boarding barn.

This mare doesn’t even flick her ears back in my presence. She might crowd my personal space a bit, because I let her, but she is as gentle as they come towards me and most everyone at feeding time. In addition to keeping her at home, she has probably been in 10 different barns in her life. She is the only one of my horses I will let my toddler feed.

Yet for whatever reason, at this last barn she was making the ugliest faces at the barn owners. Ears flat back, snaking her neck, etc.

No, I didn’t think it was ok… but I couldn’t figure out how to fix it. It wasn’t ulcers. It wasn’t lack of food or hunger. It wasn’t needing to defend her food against anyone. I honestly think she knew she could intimidate the barn owner and get a reaction… but I don’t see what benefit she got out of it.

Anyway, this has turned into a really long-winded response to a simple question. I used to think most horses had a good reason for bad mealtime manners, but my own horse proved me wrong.

[KBC]

@PNWSunnyDay

@KBC

Question is is it disrespectful for a horse to look mean,

It will be interesting if you see a disposition shift in your horse.

We call him Mellow, because he is so laid back in life

He was a working stud, and hadn’t been that long gelded when he came, but was still the nicest natured horse. The only time he has shown any handling issues is when he is feeling bad because his PSSM1 is flaring up, it is a dead give away.

I will keep working at it, from yesterday looks like an easy fix, or BO has already fixed it, he was just trying it out with me!

[Bluey]

@KBC

I was catching up with my barn owner about everything that went on while I was away on vacation, one of the issues she mentioned was my boys manners at feed time.

I was kind of surprised because I have always made sure he backs off from me while I either hang his bucket, or dump it into a manger in front of him, he’s never been allowed to eat until I say. Her issue though was the faces he pulls, he has always reverted to ears back, snakey look, and I have allowed him to express his opinion, but at a distance. She thinks this is disrespectful, and has been making him be less grouchy.

I thought I would try and see what happened, walked into his stall, he stands back, looking mean. I wait telling him I need “pretty ears” the ears come up, I walk forward, snakey face comes back I stop and wait for pretty ears, then walk forward again. Only took 3 attempts to get him ears forward while I dumped the food.

Question is is it disrespectful for a horse to look mean, as long as he’s giving you your space, do you allow, or correct.

Some times feeding seems like this:

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

@Bluey

Some times feeding seems like this:

OMG yes. Dropping a round bale in the pasture…good lord I get to see every bad behavior at once. The angel who stays back. The dick who I have to chase off the bale, tractor, bale net…(why do they always try to eat the tractor?). The dick to everyone else in the pasture. And finally, the escape artist who will do their best to sneak out the gate at any opportunity.

[Djones]

Ears sorta back, hungry, anxious…that’s fine. Ears pinned and mouth pissy…BACK UP. but that’s stock and gaited horses. Might he an issue with hotter breeds.

[Renn_aissance]

I don’t care if they’re making faces at me provided they’re out of my space, four on the floor, standing calmly. I also sometimes make faces at the oven when I’m hungry and there’s another 10 minutes to go on the timer.

Making a snake face while pawing or shifting weight back and forth or tossing their heads is not “standing calmly” and will result in having to wait for breakfast until we can handle our feelings.

[clanter]

had one gelding all of his life of 29 years, he always flattened his ears when eating… never ever was mad just fully fused on getting every bite of grain out of the feeder

[Bluey]

We bought a young horse we were warned at feeding time he would paw at gates and had destroyed two for them.

Sure enough, first day I walk out of the house heading for the barn 140’ away and there he stands in the corner of the pen with the three other horses and, as he sees me, starts pawing at the gate.
I turned around and walked back into the house.

A few minutes later, I go out again, he again starts pawing, I turn around and leave.
Repeat and the third time he is standing still, watching me, head high, probably wondering when I would turn and go back to the house.
I go to him, pet him and the others a bit and walk to the barn, all following along the fence and standing there nicely while I feed.

Same repeated that evening, but it only took two starts.
Next morning, I could walk all the way to the barn with him standing there nicely and following me quietly and he never again pawed at any gate for the many years we had him.

if a horse is smart and you can explain to them what you expect of them and praise when they are polite, life is easier for all.

[Angela_Freda]

@KBC

She thinks this is disrespectful, and has been making him be less grouchy.

She what? How?

Grouchy, I wish people would consider, can be a symptom of discomfort. Or learned behavior from past discomfort.
Anyone who has had an ulcer would understand.

[KBC]

@Angela_Freda

@KBC

She thinks this is disrespectful, and has been making him be less grouchy.

She what? How?

Grouchy, I wish people would consider, can be a symptom of discomfort. Or learned behavior from past discomfort.
Anyone who has had an ulcer would understand.

Well on Saturday all I had to do was stop and wait, and because I am a dork tell him “pretty ears please” as soon as he stopped mugging with pinned ears, and went to ears up, “why are you stood there” I would say “thank you” and move forward. It only took 3 times for ears to stay up until I got to the manger.

I reached out to the trainer I just lost when the barn was sold and this was her response, that makes so much sense to me.

Well, my thoughts.
I’m also not a fan of the snakey head because my interpretation is that is an expression of dominance. So although he seems to give you space, there is an element of unpredictability that leaves me unsettled. What if one day he’s feeling extra full of himself or you happen to get distracted for a second? Would he exert that dominance? I don’t know and that’s why it’s unsettling. If he is allowed to continue the behaviour will it escalate? I don’t know.
Since he is in a herd it would make me as the feeder more wary of the behaviour. Feeding time can be a frenzy unless each horse has a clear understanding of their position in the herd, including you. If one horse exhibits dominance towards me during feeding, it would not be acceptable. My safety has to come first.
Does he need to be happy?
Well, if he truly respected me and understood what I expected of him, then he wouldn’t be expressing any sort of dominance behaviour and he would be relaxed with no need to be dominant.

However, something to consider is that we take these horses and try our best to make things as natural for them as we can, but in reality we have a hard time mimicking that. Some horses are better at adapting to our schedules and ways of doing things and some are not. His behaviour can be coming from his days in a pen. Nothing to do and always wondering when the food will come. It may be just a behaviour, versus an expression of dominance. It may get better now that he’s out but it may have become an established behaviour. Unfortunately I don’t know which we’re dealing with.
My personal experience with my current five horses, is that none of them thrive off the same eating schedule. The only way to keep all 5 happy at the same time, is when they get full access to 24/7 grazing. Unfortunately I don’t have the space to do that. So winter becomes a challenge trying to keep everyone’s feeding schedules and styles appropriate for each horse. There’s only so much I can do. And so, yes we sometimes end up with difficult behaviours that sadly, we actually caused. Again, not sure if this is exactly what we’re dealing with but something to consider.

[Angela_Freda]

Excellent response.

The last place I worked the stallion and my gelding were trained to stand on the opposite side of the hay bunk/grain feeder while I entered the paddock and dropped feed.

The stallion was trained, not by me, to go there and stay away when we pointed our finger at him.
I kid you not.
The state vet witnessed it when she was observing temp taking, and was quite impressed.

[candyappy]

They can look however they want as long as they respect my space.

[scislandsprite]

I don’t really mind them making faces as long as that’s all they’re doing. However, I do teach them to stand away from me with food of any kind whether it’s treats, grain, hay, etc so they just do their own thing